RE: Trust- a Mexican Standoff (an asking for advice post)

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agirl -> RE: Trust- a Mexican Standoff (an asking for advice post) (11/24/2009 6:39:26 AM)
Not very helpful but ......... after such a short few months, to have these amount of problems I'd be seriously thinking that it's not the best thing , for me , for you , for us, right now...no matter what the chemistry feels like. No blame. Part of that is an agething. I really wouldn't continue with something that was this complicated in a few weeks of being together. BUT .....I have young blood-related people that would .....lol So my advice would be the same as it would be to them .... Both write down where your miscommunication is from YOUR perspective, when it occurs and how it makes you feel......... then compare it together and talk about it. Sometimes no amount of chemistry(especially in the first throws) can surmount a very untidy herb garden. agirl

wisdomtogive -> RE: Trust- a Mexican Standoff (an asking for advice post) (11/24/2009 7:08:31 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss After just 3 months you are having these issues? Sounds like a bad fit. [sm=cheering.gif] good post OP, here are some suggested questions that you might want to ask yourself, especially in the realm of trust. 'You said you love him, you think'. Lets look at this first. After just a few months into this relationship, you are questioning your own trust issues. This in itself is no biggie, because it is good to look to see if a person can be trusted. The problem that comes to mind is do we forefit our own comman sense and try to become what another tells us, when in fact it hurts to do so. Is living daily with anxiety and drama regarding this relationship a plus for you or minus? Do you feel the need to become his verson of a super duper s-type? Can you do this if you are living in panic and anxiety everyday, just praying to be good enough to be accepted by him? If trust is not being built between both of you, what would you two have to offer in a poly relationship at this time? Would another s-type want to be part of this picture, and are they the type that cant trust either, so will be 3 people with trust issues living an anxiety filled day. Trying to become an apple when you are an orange will only cause you to suffer in all the wrong ways. Sometimes lack of trust in person is a clue to us to look within. Are we setting ourselves up for another excuse to not to trust? Are we trying to fit another's agenda when it isn't in our best interest? Are we so full of feelings of failure, that we will do anything to have someone say we are good enough to be their s-type, even at the cost of crippling ourself inside? These are things that I had to recently look at, because I already saw the red flags, and then became aware of how easy it was to make excuses for him and myself. Seriously love has nothing to do with it. How could I love when i was setting myself up to fail. I had to get tough on me and make myself see why I was permitting this to happen. After starting a thread on red flags a month ago, under oceanwynds, I got some great advice. I am glad I took it, and did something with it. Not saying this is you or comparing your situation with mine, but offering my insight into my own madness and if it helps, so be it! wisdomtogive

LaTigresse -> RE: Trust- a Mexican Standoff (an asking for advice post) (11/24/2009 7:31:04 AM)
The problems described have nothing at all to do with the current relationship except in that, it is going to destroy it if it continues. Two people with previous baggage that has not been dealt with, bringing that destructive baggage into a new relationship and expecting the other person to deal with it. When it should have been dealt with BEFORE entering a new relationship. Either BOTH people have to take a pro-active stance and deal with their individual baggage exclusive of the relationship or they will destroy the relationship. I suggest BOTH parties get counseling individually and then, some sort of couples counseling to learn how to communicate properly with one another.

Lucienne -> RE: Trust- a Mexican Standoff (an asking for advice post) (11/24/2009 7:33:39 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: pixidustpet i've been in poly relationships. and yes, if the core relationship is having issues? you DO put the non-primary relationships on hold while that one gets mended. I wouldn't assume the OP is the primary partner.

DomImus -> RE: Trust- a Mexican Standoff (an asking for advice post) (11/24/2009 7:41:21 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sireninchains Nothing so serious as thinking the other person is lying constantly, and we are polyamorous, but we don't trust what the other person says, he has me justify everything i say, he just doesnt take me at my word, and because he does it to me, i do it to him. It starts fights. So i guess the first one, and that leads to me just not telling him things because i know ill have to justify and he wont get it. Like any complex relationship problem you have to start somewhere and take one thing at a time. One step at a time. You say here that you retaliate in kind simply because he does the same thing to you first. Try to consciously break that chain and stop retaliating so you can direct that energy into correcting why he won't take your word and then move to the next step. Poly. Been there, done that and got the t-shirt. While I can understand how your relationship difficulties may not be borne of the poly aspects of your relationship I cannot fathom how two people with this little trust in each other manage a successful poly outing. Does he have these sort of issues with the other person(s) in this poly mix and how well do they get along? Better than the two of you? Some hints may be evident in that pairing.

lucylucy -> RE: Trust- a Mexican Standoff (an asking for advice post) (11/24/2009 7:55:36 AM)
Could it be as simple as each of you promising (and following through) to take the other at his/her word? It sounds pretty basic, but this has actually worked for me. If you believe he is trustworthy and your issues are really leftover baggage from previous relationships, and he believes you are trustworthy and his issues are leftover baggage from previous relationships, what if you both just accepted each other's word? I do this sometimes with people who I have no reason not to trust but I distrust for reasons that I recognize as MINE not theirs. I kind of say to myself, "How would a trusting person act in this situation?" and I do it. What starts as roleplaying in a sense become real over time. Good luck.

Mercnbeth -> RE: Trust- a Mexican Standoff (an asking for advice post) (11/24/2009 8:29:25 AM)
quote: Has anyone been through anything similar? nutshell version: every relationship this slave has been involved with where the other person felt this slave was not to be trusted had nothing to do with this slave being untrustworthy. it was about them, their paranoia, their untrustworthiness, the fact that they knew without a doubt they didn't deserve the trust this slave put in them and it was impossible to reconcile it in their mind. so they projected it onto this slave, continued with their decietful behavior, everything went to shit...and the relationships ended.

dreamerdreaming -> RE: Trust- a Mexican Standoff (an asking for advice post) (11/24/2009 8:43:23 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss After just 3 months you are having these issues? Sounds like a bad fit. Exactly, thank you sunshinemiss.

lucylucy -> RE: Trust- a Mexican Standoff (an asking for advice post) (11/24/2009 8:48:48 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth quote: Has anyone been through anything similar? nutshell version: every relationship this slave has been involved with where the other person felt this slave was not to be trusted had nothing to do with this slave being untrustworthy. it was about them, their paranoia, their untrustworthiness, the fact that they knew without a doubt they didn't deserve the trust this slave put in them and it was impossible to reconcile it in their mind. so they projected it onto this slave, continued with their decietful behavior, everything went to shit...and the relationships ended. Great insight!

antipode -> RE: Trust- a Mexican Standoff (an asking for advice post) (11/24/2009 9:00:20 AM)
quote: I have been seriously burned and hurt in the past and it makes it extremely difficult for me to trust ANYONE, friends, family, and especially lovers. I keep on repeating this: that is your problem. To allow this to affect a relationship with someone who is in no way responsible for your misfortunes is self indulgent, unfair, and immature. Simple as that. Deal with your own problems, don't let them influence the way you relate. If you cannot, you are not ready for any kind of a relationship.

MasterSlaveLA -> RE: Trust- a Mexican Standoff (an asking for advice post) (11/24/2009 3:07:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sireninchains I have been dating a guy for about five months (since Aug 5, if anyone wants to do the math) and I love him, I think. What this shows is that you don't trust YOURSELF... which stems from this... quote: I have been seriously burned and hurt in the past and it makes it extremely difficult for me to trust ANYONE, friends, family, and especially lovers. When people don't trust themselves, they INTENTIONALLY seek out either (i) bad relationships with no chance of success, so they can always cast blame on the other person by remaining the victim, (ii) impossible relationships (e.g., with a partner that is not TRULY accessibe, such as someone whose married, or has other complications that prevent a commitment, including (in some cases) an "open relationship", and/or (iii) short-term relationships, where they abruptly RUN and end the relationship under some self-deluded illusion of self-preservation. In short, they build a WALL... one that they THINK protects and insulates them from being hurt, and one that always keeps a potential partner at a distance. It doesn't... all that results is an emotionally immature adult staring back at you in the mirror. Bottom line... no relationship is perfect, and early relationships are simply the primer to discovering what each person individually needs to be happy; and as such, those early alleged "failed" relationships are NOT "failures", but lessons... ones you learn from in order to find the relationship that's right for you. Thus, by ignoring this, and reflecting on the past as "failures" instead of "lessons", YOU FAIL IN FUTURE RELATIONSHIPS BY NOT TRULY GIVING ALL OF YOURSELF... and in doing so, you create a SELF-FULFILLING PROPHACY; i.e., by holding back and keeping that "wall" up, YOU doom the relationship to failure, because whether you want to believe this or not, when you expect someone to fuck you over, you WILL act (consciously or sub-consciously) in a way that reflects this... and YOU will be responsible for the relationship failing The "trust" thing is little more than another brick in that wall. quote: I know thats my own problem and I've been seeing counselors about that for a long time... That's good and all... but at some point, you need to think Nike; and "Just Do It". Why? Because by letting yourself go and fully trusting another, if in the RIGHT relationship, you'll begin to see a pattern... one where NOTHING BAD HAPPENS when you're so sure it will happen. That more that happens, the more you'll be able to leave the past and whatever axieties it carries there; in the past. If in the WRONG relationship, then learn from it and move on. If it helps, think of it this way... why let someone from your past (who fucked you over) change you and influence your future? FUCK THEM!!! Take that power away from them and put YOUR FUTURE back in YOUR control, not their control. Period. quote: ...he just doesnt take me at my word, and because he does it to me, i do it to him. Immaturity. GROW THE FUCK UP. Nobody wins at this stupid game, so knock-it-the-fuck-off!!! Relationships are not a competition where someone wins and someone loses. This whole dynamic is based on a win/win, whereby each is free to be themselves and find happiness in doing so... where one leads and the other follows, and to find peace in the cloak of that dynamic.

sireninchains -> RE: Trust- a Mexican Standoff (an asking for advice post) (11/24/2009 5:08:46 PM)
Let me clairify, I do love him, and we are polyfidelitous, which means there is no primary, all parts of the relationship is treated equally and as primaries. quote: Not very helpful but ......... after such a short few months, to have these amount of problems I'd be seriously thinking that it's not the best thing , for me , for you , for us, right now...no matter what the chemistry feels like. No blame. And amount of problems?? its one problem... Im actually really dissapointed in everyone, because I asked for help, not hinderances. So many people here are telling me to break up with him, when there is no reason to end a wonderful relationship. And trust me, its wonderful, when i say chemistry, i dont mean good sex (yes, the sex is good, but thats not what i meant) I meant we are on the same wavelength. In everything, we click. So in this one issue I want help with fixing it, through advice and exercises. Yes, I know that couples therapy could help, and maybe I will, but thats not my first option.. Any other ideas?

sunshinemiss -> RE: Trust- a Mexican Standoff (an asking for advice post) (11/24/2009 6:08:46 PM)
Darling if that is what you call a wonderful relationship, well I'm glad I'm not one of the participants. Good luck. sunshine, who thinks that at least the initial stages of a relationship ought to be easy like Sunday morning.

Lucienne -> RE: Trust- a Mexican Standoff (an asking for advice post) (11/24/2009 6:27:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sireninchains And trust me, its wonderful, when i say chemistry, i dont mean good sex (yes, the sex is good, but thats not what i meant) I meant we are on the same wavelength. In everything, we click. If you are on the same wavelength, how are you having trust issues? When I'm on the same wavelength with someone, trust doesn't even come up, because you think the same things and want the same things. If the two of you can create trust issues within this dynamic, yep, you've got problems.

wisdomtogive -> RE: Trust- a Mexican Standoff (an asking for advice post) (11/24/2009 6:30:13 PM)
I wish you luck in your journey, any thing else to be said to you would be rationalize away. Good luck with your sir and with all these issues you are choosing to be a part of, after only 5 months.

Hierodule -> RE: Trust- a Mexican Standoff (an asking for advice post) (11/24/2009 6:30:31 PM)
Wait a minute.. Denton TX ... August 5th? Hes in a serious and loving ,yet non-sexual, relationship with someone else. Might I know this guy? He's not on this site is he? I'm not trying to be nosy, but this sounds A LOT (almost exactly) like someone I know. He didn't just move back to town this summer did he? It might just be a coincidence. But if it is the same man, I wouldn't let him go either ;-) Sometimes things are hard even at the beginning. Here is the only advice I have... 1)This is going to sound obvious and wierd but... just give in. Start trusting him little by little. Do you want to submit to him? If so then let him confront you on things but STOP confronting him. Just let go. If you really think this guy is wonderful it will feel amazing when you finally give him control. If you have doubts then back off a little and keep it casual. To me a mexican stand implies a power struggle. I know this is easier said than done but... STOP STRUGGLING. 2) Keep communicating. Do not hide things from him because you don't want to be confronted. Let him confront you. And while he is doing it do not get offensive give him the information he asks for. If that doesn't satisfy him there is something else going on that no one on a message board is going to be able to help you with. quote: ORIGINAL: sireninchains Let me clairify, I do love him, and we are polyfidelitous, which means there is no primary, all parts of the relationship is treated equally and as primaries. quote: Not very helpful but ......... after such a short few months, to have these amount of problems I'd be seriously thinking that it's not the best thing , for me , for you , for us, right now...no matter what the chemistry feels like. No blame. And amount of problems?? its one problem... Im actually really dissapointed in everyone, because I asked for help, not hinderances. So many people here are telling me to break up with him, when there is no reason to end a wonderful relationship. And trust me, its wonderful, when i say chemistry, i dont mean good sex (yes, the sex is good, but thats not what i meant) I meant we are on the same wavelength. In everything, we click. So in this one issue I want help with fixing it, through advice and exercises. Yes, I know that couples therapy could help, and maybe I will, but thats not my first option.. Any other ideas?

sireninchains -> RE: Trust- a Mexican Standoff (an asking for advice post) (11/24/2009 6:38:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Hierodule Wait a minute.. Denton TX ... August 5th? Hes in a serious and loving ,yet non-sexual, relationship with someone else. Might I know this guy? He's not on this site is he? I'm not trying to be nosy, but this sounds A LOT (almost exactly) like someone I know. He didn't just move back to town this summer did he? It might just be a coincidence. But if it is the same man, I wouldn't let him go either ;-) Sometimes things are hard even at the beginning. Here is the only advice I have... 1)This is going to sound obvious and wierd but... just give in. Start trusting him little by little. Do you want to submit to him? If so then let him confront you on things but STOP confronting him. Just let go. If you really think this guy is wonderful it will feel amazing when you finally give him control. If you have doubts then back off a little and keep it casual. To me a mexican stand implies a power struggle. I know this is easier said than done but... STOP STRUGGLING. 2) Keep communicating. Do not hide things from him because you don't want to be confronted. Let him confront you. And while he is doing it do not get offensive give him the information he asks for. If that doesn't satisfy him there is something else going on that no one on a message board is going to be able to help you with. quote: ORIGINAL: sireninchains Let me clairify, I do love him, and we are polyfidelitous, which means there is no primary, all parts of the relationship is treated equally and as primaries. quote: Not very helpful but ......... after such a short few months, to have these amount of problems I'd be seriously thinking that it's not the best thing , for me , for you , for us, right now...no matter what the chemistry feels like. No blame. And amount of problems?? its one problem... Im actually really dissapointed in everyone, because I asked for help, not hinderances. So many people here are telling me to break up with him, when there is no reason to end a wonderful relationship. And trust me, its wonderful, when i say chemistry, i dont mean good sex (yes, the sex is good, but thats not what i meant) I meant we are on the same wavelength. In everything, we click. So in this one issue I want help with fixing it, through advice and exercises. Yes, I know that couples therapy could help, and maybe I will, but thats not my first option.. Any other ideas? Thank you for the honest reply. And Hierodule, I do not think we are talking about the same person, the woman moved into town recently, but not him. PM me if you really want to talk about it, it would be pretty cool if we knew eachother through circles! I think you may have something, we wont get anywhere unless one of us gives at least a little, we are both incredibly stubborn people, but he is an incredible person, and I love being a part of his life as I know he loves having me as a part of his. Ava

Hierodule -> RE: Trust- a Mexican Standoff (an asking for advice post) (11/24/2009 7:14:10 PM)
you have c mail

Fitznicely -> RE: Trust- a Mexican Standoff (an asking for advice post) (11/25/2009 1:23:57 AM)
OP: A new relationship with trust issues isn't unique in any way shape or form. Like someone else mentioned, one or the other of you has to be the one to let go first. If the chemistry is as good as you say, then it should be an easy step to break the cycle. Of course, you need trust on both sides to embark on a Ds relationship. If you find that your partner can't let his side of this whole defensive pre-emptive-strike been-hurt-before-so-I-can't-let-you-in-either thing go, then sorry, but that'd be a red flag. Either forget the Ds and be happy with the relationship as it is right now, or move on.

BrokenSaint -> RE: Trust- a Mexican Standoff (an asking for advice post) (11/25/2009 1:36:09 AM)
OP, sometimes. Sometimes someone just has to jump. It's either gonna be you, or him, or neither and watch the whole thing crash and burn. Sure, you could get hurt. That will sometimes happen. No matter how much you want to avoid it.The thing is, by not trusting you're essentially letting the original wounds that caused trust issues to fester. What do you have to lose, and what do you have to gain? So break the standoff.

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