is dominance and submission a choice or is it like sexual orientation? (Full Version)

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porcelain20 -> is dominance and submission a choice or is it like sexual orientation? (11/17/2009 6:41:29 PM)

Curious to know whether someone can choose to be dominant in the relationship but not feel dominant, just wants to be in control.

Or is it more like someone needs to feel capable of being dominant before setting foot into that kind of relationship?




DesFIP -> RE: is dominance and submission a choice or is it like sexual orientation? (11/17/2009 6:47:50 PM)

I don't understand the difference between wanting to be in control and wanting to be dominant.

There are indeed skills needed to be a good dominant, and unfortunately there are lots out there without any of those skills. They're still dominants, just bad ones.

But if you're asking about control freaks who try to control everything around them because they don't feel in control of their own selves, yes they exist.

Could you try to explain a little more. I'm still not sure exactly what you're asking.



slavekal -> RE: is dominance and submission a choice or is it like sexual orientation? (11/17/2009 6:50:14 PM)

I was a born submissive to dominant women.



AquaticSub -> RE: is dominance and submission a choice or is it like sexual orientation? (11/17/2009 6:52:56 PM)

~Fast Reply~

I think you are splitting hairs a bit. A gay man can choose to have sex with a woman, regardless of how much he enjoys it. I regard dominance and submission as similiar to sexual orientation.



Llyren -> RE: is dominance and submission a choice or is it like sexual orientation? (11/17/2009 6:55:40 PM)

I think to a certain extent you're born with it.  I know my first sexual fantasies involved submission, even before I was aware of sex. 

You can choose to behave in a dominant fashion if you're not dominant, or a switch.  You can also choose to behave in a submissive fashion.  I'm not sure there is just one easy answer to this question.



porcelain20 -> RE: is dominance and submission a choice or is it like sexual orientation? (11/17/2009 6:56:27 PM)

If I decided I wanted to be a dominant towards a man or a woman. But I don't feel like I can be dominant - or in control - to men, and the thought of it does not even turn me on. To other woman, I feel like I would be very caring and strict but we would be reaching towards the same goals.

I am still curious about being dominant towards another man but do not know if that is something i should try



AquaticSub -> RE: is dominance and submission a choice or is it like sexual orientation? (11/17/2009 7:01:41 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: porcelain20

I am still curious about being dominant towards another man but do not know if that is something i should try


Should? Only you can answer that.

However, just as you can behave/appear to be heterosexual/homosexual/nice/mean/etc you can "fake" dominance or submission if you so desire.



Veda -> RE: is dominance and submission a choice or is it like sexual orientation? (11/17/2009 7:09:05 PM)

It seems to me that there are separate and independent "channels" to everyone's sexuality: Sex/Gender/Sexuality/Role  each on a continuum between poles.  Like a set of dials that define who you are and what you desire.  Flat-earth vanilla thinking collapses all these into two standard issue sets and labels everything else strange or wrong. Therefore Male/Masculine/Hetero/Dominant and Female/Feminine/Hetero/Submissive are OK. But you really need all the dials and Dom/sub is still often left out.  It's not enough to say someone is a gay male - is he a top or a bottom, masculine or not? And to what degree? There are women who are not into being highly feminine but are still hetero and may be inclined to either top or bottom. 

So, direct to your question, I do think D/s is a normal feature of sexuality, with a lot of variation in the spectrum. One not often discussed outside of gay circles because it is assumed to be sex based. As one friend told me he was asked at a club - "If you were a book, would you be on the top shelf or the bottom". Obviously it makes a difference.



Tantriqu -> RE: is dominance and submission a choice or is it like sexual orientation? (11/17/2009 7:24:38 PM)

I've talked it over with male gay friends, and what I experienced as a nascent dominant who didn't know women could be Dommes was similar to small town guys who didn't know they could love men; but then when we do . . . whoa, Nelly!!
I was lucky that I discovered I was a Domme half-way through my first vanilla relationship, then never had to settle again. I was vaguely dissatisfied, and it was only once I discovered real men can become aroused by submitting to Me and my requirements that both my sexual pleasure and relationships were complete.
It's not a choice; it's very much who and what I am. I've happily dated straight vanilla men, but they have to have an extremely high libido and be my equal intellectually, emotionally and sexually. A man who tries to dom women is the opposite of attractive to me, kinda like a poodle humping a pillow: some people find it cute, but not me. But a kneeling police dog or golden receiver? Whoa, Nelly!



DesFIP -> RE: is dominance and submission a choice or is it like sexual orientation? (11/17/2009 7:26:17 PM)

OP, topping is not the same as dominating. If you want to try flogging a male, go for it. Once you've learned how to safely use a flogger. See how it feels. You don't have to commit to anything more than a simple flogging.

If you find you're apologizing the whole time for hurting him, then I'd say you don't feel toppy towards men.

But the easiest way is to think about your fantasies. Do you enjoy the idea of ordering a man around, telling him not good enough, and spanking/paddling him for 'punishment' before sending him back to clean the kitchen again? Or does it turn you off?



AnnaOfAramis -> RE: is dominance and submission a choice or is it like sexual orientation? (11/17/2009 7:27:24 PM)

Greetings,
I agree with AquaticSub and Llyren.  I think people are born with either more dominant or more submissive traits and that it is like sexual orientation.  And what Llyren said- I also had submissive feelings and fantasies developing towards males way before I was aware of sex- it came out in play which as my sexuality matured became more overtly sexual.  Though I do think it is possible for people to not know what they are or not to be strongly one way or the other, in which case they may end up trying to be dominant, but not necessarily succeeding or faking it, or some other variation thereof- not sure if that was your question?

Regards,
anna



Noah -> RE: is dominance and submission a choice or is it like sexual orientation? (11/17/2009 7:38:57 PM)

quote:

is dominance and submission a choice or is it like sexual orientation?



It seems to me that before the question above can be productively addressed some thought should be given to the questions:

Is dominance just one thing?
and
Is submission just one thing?

I would be surprised if a single account would suffice for every person.

In fact even in a given person and even at a given time, dominance or submission might significantly reflect various things, including calculated conscious choice, genetic predisposition, cultural training, "pre-conscious" habitual responses to difficult or even abusive past experiences, pure aspiration, and who knows what else.








ncbabe -> RE: is dominance and submission a choice or is it like sexual orientation? (11/17/2009 7:54:11 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: porcelain20

Curious to know whether someone can choose to be dominant in the relationship but not feel dominant, just wants to be in control.

Or is it more like someone needs to feel capable of being dominant before setting foot into that kind of relationship?




This post is demonstrative of you trying to gather yourself following the relationship you were just in.  I think that all the responses regarding it on your other thread have forced you to look at yourself in ways you might not have wanted to, or in ways that make you feel uncomfortable, and you are unconsciously reacting defensively.  I do not think you are dominant.  I think you want to experiment with it because you are trying to reclaim a sense of being in control.

I will not expand too much on what I want to say in this particular thread as I will end up going way off topic.  I just think that you very much need to feel empowered and you need to know that it is possible to feel this as a submissive, without having to be dominant or wanting to control the relationship.



Llyren -> RE: is dominance and submission a choice or is it like sexual orientation? (11/17/2009 7:57:50 PM)


I already know I can flog and dominate a man.  But I also know that, while it can be enjoyable, I have to be very careful not to let my own resentment of the fact that I don't get to be the one submitting make me too vicious. 

Which is why I'm not going to switch till I finally get to express my submissive side and really get to be me.



NormalOutside -> RE: is dominance and submission a choice or is it like sexual orientation? (11/17/2009 8:19:16 PM)

Since there are LOTS of attributes and traits and choices and wants/needs that make us label a person dominant or submissive, and since it's unlikely all of those things are either one or the other (a choice or simply who you are), the answer to your question is very likely "both".



Ladynslave -> RE: is dominance and submission a choice or is it like sexual orientation? (11/17/2009 8:56:34 PM)

While control of the relationship can be a form of dominance, a dominant is not always the one in control.  That being said, I can reflect back on my life and determine that dominance was a learned behavior, not something I was born with.  I was born a submissive and after many bad relationships of that dynamic, I eventually took control and evolved into a dominant.  This applies to my own life only, not to any other.

Lady



PainfullyCurious -> RE: is dominance and submission a choice or is it like sexual orientation? (11/17/2009 9:03:43 PM)

I can tell you that 20 years of fantasy focus on submission, a little pain and no domination at all. Yes, as someone else mentioned, this started even before I knew about sex. Though I could, I would have no desire to chose to do something when my heart isn't in it. If we're talking about desire, I've never wanted anything else.

As a matter of fact, the only behaviors that might be seen as dominant have been in attempt to get myself into a submissive position. You know, pull a few arm hairs out in hopes of getting put in my place for having done it...

Of course, I have almost 0 experience, so take my answer for what it's worth.



Aanakaris -> RE: is dominance and submission a choice or is it like sexual orientation? (11/17/2009 9:43:34 PM)

I had fantasies of dominating women at age 9. The vanilla relationships I have had have never lasted because something intrinsic to me is missing. There must be a genetic link, I know my father is kinky, but he does not act on it. I choose to act on it and would rather have no relationship than one that does not satisfy me.

While I believe the taste for kink, dominance, and submission can be built on there must be something there to build on. It's not just acquired but often discovered.



Llyren -> RE: is dominance and submission a choice or is it like sexual orientation? (11/17/2009 9:50:09 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: PainfullyCurious

I can tell you that 20 years of fantasy focus on submission, a little pain and no domination at all. Yes, as someone else mentioned, this started even before I knew about sex. Though I could, I would have no desire to chose to do something when my heart isn't in it. If we're talking about desire, I've never wanted anything else.

As a matter of fact, the only behaviors that might be seen as dominant have been in attempt to get myself into a submissive position. You know, pull a few arm hairs out in hopes of getting put in my place for having done it...

Of course, I have almost 0 experience, so take my answer for what it's worth.





You too?  We should start our own little, "Experienced in our Minds" club.  For those of us who haven't yet gotten to field test our true natures. 



breatheasone -> RE: is dominance and submission a choice or is it like sexual orientation? (11/17/2009 9:51:30 PM)

imho, its both.



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