Question regarding D/s dynamic (Full Version)

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digitalself -> Question regarding D/s dynamic (11/13/2009 8:02:27 AM)

I'm a Dominant 35yr old Man who's only recently discovered the scene and begun trying to absorb It's vast yet sometimes convoluted and contradictary guidelines.
One such contradiction I've noticed browsing through other Dominants profiles pertains to the manner in which subs are treated for their service.

Much of the reading that I've done In books paints the D/s relationship as being symbiotic, where both compliment and validate each others role.
In this context the connection between service, reward and punishment is pretty clear.
But in many of the Dom profiles I've read here on this site I've noticed a big trend twords Doms demanding their subs/slaves unwavering service for absolutely nothing but the priveledge. How can/does a dynamic like that work in the LT? While I understand that it could be appealing to a sub who harbors a sense of personal worthlessness to begin with and seeks to have that validated by someone she regards as an authority, I still don't see how in general such a dynamic can work over any length of time. That willing desire to serve a master under such an agreement I can only imagine would eventually morph into anemosity, struggle, and eventually a seemingly persistent state of punishment for it.
I would genuinely enjoy any thoughts or ideas regarding this..
I openly admit to being new to such a broad subject , so perhaps I'm simply missing a piece of the puzzle. Please, enlighten me!
Thx



ncbabe -> RE: Question regarding D/s dynamic (11/13/2009 8:14:52 AM)

I think you had it right in the first place.  The relationship should be symbiotic, and when I was searching for someone I skipped over all the profiles demanding unwavering service for nothing but the privilege.  My submission is a need that requires attending to in many different ways.  If my owner failed to attend to those needs it would not stop me from submitting to him, but it would become damaging to me and possibly abusive in the long term.

In short, we both give and receive in our different ways and are both fulfilled because of it.

(edited for spelling)



sunshinemiss -> RE: Question regarding D/s dynamic (11/13/2009 8:15:20 AM)

Hello Digital Self,

quote:

I'm a Dominant 35yr old Man who's only recently discovered the scene and begun trying to absorb It's vast yet sometimes convoluted and contradictary guidelines.


Welcome!

quote:

Much of the reading that I've done In books paints the D/s relationship as being symbiotic, where both compliment and validate each others role.


That sounds about right for real life.

quote:

But in many of the Dom profiles I've read here on this site I've noticed a big trend twords Doms demanding their subs/slaves unwavering service for absolutely nothing but the priveledge. How can/does a dynamic like that work in the LT?


It rarely can in my experience.  We have words for dudes like that.

quote:

While I understand that it could be appealing to a sub who harbors a sense of personal worthlessness to begin with and seeks to have that validated by someone she regards as an authority, I still don't see how in general such a dynamic can work over any length of time.


I'm with you there.  And what kind of person wants a "worthless" person?

quote:

I openly admit to being new to such a broad subject , so perhaps I'm simply missing a piece of the puzzle. Please, enlighten me!


It would seem you have your bull hockey meter on ... and it works.

Best,
sunshine



DesFIP -> RE: Question regarding D/s dynamic (11/13/2009 8:51:46 AM)

One of the reasons these people are still looking is because of their attitude. To have a successful relationship both people must have their needs met. The fact that they refuse to fulfill any needs of their partner is why they don't have one.



LPslittleclip -> RE: Question regarding D/s dynamic (11/13/2009 9:57:01 AM)

yees there are many profiles that dont meet the symbiotic feel to them. for my Mistress and i it is a very complementing dynamic that benifits the whole poly family. i would sujest that you start going to local functions and meet and greets to meet the real folks and have some fun



GYPSYMAMBO -> RE: Question regarding D/s dynamic (11/13/2009 10:01:11 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: digitalself


Much of the reading that I've done In books paints the D/s relationship as being symbiotic, where both compliment and validate each others role.
You are very right...and you have distingushed between POWER OVER and POWER WITH..and many wanna be losers..scammers..and abusers don't get it.( * free site)
POWER OVER measures personal power by ability to control others or increasing power by stealing it from others.
POWER WITH enables each to empower by sharing our power.
BY supporting one another we get more our selves.
IN any BDSM exchange there is sharing..the sub lends his/her power to the
DOMME.The DOMME weilds ALL of it ........thrillling..exotic..and very sexy.

In this context the connection between service, reward and punishment is pretty clear.
AS a LT relationship develops the need for reward and punishement may phase out..and you will simply LIVE the life each day..

many of the Dom profiles I've read here on this site I've noticed a big trend twords Doms demanding their subs/slaves unwavering service for absolutely nothing but the priveledge.
This is insideous and wrong..I think....
The D's style has to match the subs desires..so that for example if I am a D who wants a anticipatory sub then one who wants complete objectification will not work.
 
IF he has to feel like a robot or zone out( his preferences) then it will not work for me.
or if a sub craves caring and nurturance as well as the floggingd for correction and to serve with heart.. etc..then he's my guy.
THAT is why we must negotiate...talk..get to know each other..see how we FIT
FAR too many men and women have heard..."Sub''?"
as in someone who serves as:
 
"Hay cool I can get someone to suck me off all day and scrub my floors"
 "Guess i'll go on that free website and order in a woman who will shut the fuk up and do as I say cause hay they like it?"
 
[:-]DO they even have the basic rudiments of brain stem function here??[&o]
I mean these are human beings who have decided to
GIVE their power in order to be led...serve..protected..
loved..corrected..
They wish to serve SOMEONE WHO DESERVES it..who has respect..
 
not some lame ass fat prick who thinks he can order in a cock cucker..or some druggie bitch who needs her dishes done..
 
clip is right...meet some real -in person ppl too..:)

 
GM
 



mc1234 -> RE: Question regarding D/s dynamic (11/13/2009 10:31:32 AM)

I don't think you're missing a piece of the puzzle.  I think you've discovered one of the most important things about a D/s or M/s relationship to me, which is that both parties have to be satisfied and happy with the relationship for it to be successful.   When starting out I'd hear and read about how it was 'all about him'.  Which is great, because I'm a giver, but I don't exist in a vacuum.  I have needs that must be met and wants that I love to have fulfilled every so often.  That's what works for me in a long-term relationship.  



breatheasone -> RE: Question regarding D/s dynamic (11/13/2009 10:46:28 AM)

Yes there are "D" types that want it all, and give nothing in return. i believe those are the "D" types that have  BIG bottles of lotion on their night tables. [;)][:D]



LadyPact -> RE: Question regarding D/s dynamic (11/13/2009 10:59:05 AM)

Keep in mind that you are reading profiles.  Not all profiles are reality based.  Many are written from the fantasy that people have about doing this.  When you read the profiles of those of us who live the reality of doing this, you are going to see a significant difference.



CNJDom -> RE: Question regarding D/s dynamic (11/13/2009 1:57:09 PM)

First, welcome to the boards OP!  Secondly, what everyone here says is very true and accurate.  Don't let the hype of some of these nimrod's profiles set  you on the wrong path.  The Dominants that demand without earning or giving respect, acting like bad-asses without really trying to understand what it's all about first, are not the answer.  Going around half-cocked with some (Red Bull enhanced) fantasy notion of what BDSM is...these people are not healthy examples of the lifestyle.  They are a part of it, but not welcomed by many, and like Breatheasone stated:  they are probably very acquainted with their bottles of hand lotion.  They probably wouldn't know what to do with a paddle if it jumped up and bit them on the ass... 

Be yourself, which from I can see is you're going at it just fine.  Ask questions like you are, not assumptions like some that you've come across recently.  And true going to munches and seeing the reality and not the fantasy of what the interwebs provide, is the best bet.  Reality vs. fantasy.  Right now, you are doing great!  If a relationship is what you are looking for, then you are on the right track.  Relationships require the give and take of at least 2 people...not barring poly or leather family structures.  And for this to work, you should provide what is needed in your relationship environment for your submissive to be able to serve and submit to in the best possible manner.  Their needs have to be met on the same level as yours do.  This is a symbiotic situation.  I view my submissive as the other side of the same coin, and this means that we are part of a team.  We have our roles, desires, and needs...but more so we have respect for each other, and we cherish each other.  With this sort of situation, you don't need to demand when the dynamic provides an environment of wanting to be what the other desires, as well as what you want; which is the best of each other.  Good luck!      



JBGolden -> RE: Question regarding D/s dynamic (11/13/2009 3:37:25 PM)

It's nice to find other people who view the D/s relationship the way I do. It's given me no amount of consternation to see what
other profiles are written like.

Hopefully this just means I have a better shot than them!



Rochsub2009 -> RE: Question regarding D/s dynamic (11/13/2009 3:55:49 PM)

What Gypsymambo said.

i'll add one point to the many great points that She made.  Just because someone calls himself/herself a Dom/Domme doesn't mean that they know what the heck they are doing.

i've been in this lifestyle for over 15 years, and i could write a book about some of the wackos that i've run into.  The Doms/Dommes on this site are constantly complaining about how many bad subs there are out there.  But i can say from personal experience that there are an equal number of bad Doms/Dommes.

Anyone can become a self-proclaimed Dom/Domme.  But not all of them are good at it.



NihilusZero -> RE: Question regarding D/s dynamic (11/13/2009 4:08:09 PM)

You cannot understand symbiosis without an understanding of the varieties of individual need. All that matters is that the dynamic provide fulfillment to the individuals. It has nothing to do with whether the fulfillment appears to be fulfilling.

This is equivalent to some vanilla folks expressing as much confusion over how there can be any balance in D/s relationships.



NihilusZero -> RE: Question regarding D/s dynamic (11/13/2009 4:14:23 PM)

I'm starting to vibe less with these sorts of viewpoints. Essentially, we're making a mockery of people wanting something we find abhorrent and then patting ourselves on the back for holding to a tamer dynamic concept which is more likely to be met in compatibility by another.

I'm just not sure where/how/why I'm supposed to derive a greater-than-thou self-ideal if I'm comparing myself to a D-type as the OP describes who happens to have found a partner who is into physical and emotional objectification.



ncbabe -> RE: Question regarding D/s dynamic (11/13/2009 4:28:59 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

I'm just not sure where/how/why I'm supposed to derive a greater-than-thou self-ideal if I'm comparing myself to a D-type as the OP describes who happens to have found a partner who is into physical and emotional objectification.


But if the D-type in question has found a partner who is into physical and emotional objectification, does that not mean they actually have a symbiotic relationship?  Have we not all so far been basing our definition of a symbiotic relationship on our own needs? 



NihilusZero -> RE: Question regarding D/s dynamic (11/13/2009 4:39:27 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ncbabe

But if the D-type in question has found a partner who is into physical and emotional objectification, does that not mean they actually have a symbiotic relationship?  Have we not all so far been basing our definition of a symbiotic relationship on our own needs? 

Exactly!

But then...the only thing we're really griping about is that the people behind these supposed profiles are single?

And if we're trying to assess the reasons why they might be single, then we're just talking statistics and odds, really. It makes for an interesting topic, though. As in, the old adage of "nice guys finish last" placed tactfulness and courtesy in the category of detracting traits since casual analysis seemed to indicate that men who were more arrogant and/or belligerent tended to be able to use that aggressiveness to succeed more in the partnership department.

Naturally, most everyone wants to end up partnered. So, if we are wagging our finger at some of these profiles, are we doing it because they demand something we don't or because what they demand is so implausibly unlikely to find that they may as well not look (and what reactions to either situation are the best to make)?

Or maybe I'm just playing with the shovel and drill too much tonight. [;)]



ncbabe -> RE: Question regarding D/s dynamic (11/13/2009 4:46:47 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

quote:

ORIGINAL: ncbabe

But if the D-type in question has found a partner who is into physical and emotional objectification, does that not mean they actually have a symbiotic relationship?  Have we not all so far been basing our definition of a symbiotic relationship on our own needs? 

Exactly!

But then...the only thing we're really griping about is that the people behind these supposed profiles are single?

And if we're trying to assess the reasons why they might be single, then we're just talking statistics and odds, really. It makes for an interesting topic, though. As in, the old adage of "nice guys finish last" placed tactfulness and courtesy in the category of detracting traits since casual analysis seemed to indicate that men who were more arrogant and/or belligerent tended to be able to use that aggressiveness to succeed more in the partnership department.

Naturally, most everyone wants to end up partnered. So, if we are wagging our finger at some of these profiles, are we doing it because they demand something we don't or because what they demand is so implausibly unlikely to find that they may as well not look (and what reactions to either situation are the best to make)?

Or maybe I'm just playing with the shovel and drill too much tonight. [;)]



I suddenly feel rather humbled.



sunshinemiss -> RE: Question regarding D/s dynamic (11/13/2009 4:49:36 PM)

NZ,
I think we are talking about different things.  For a real life, long term relationship (healthy, that is), a certain symbiosis is necessary for whatever the relationship as is self-esteem.  If we talk of M-types expecting everything and giving nothing, that M is setting himself up for failure.  The s-type will become a ball and chain because of the inability to receive.  People who have no perception of their need to receive are unhealthy, lacking in self esteem.  As time goes by, worthlessness builds, and the only recourse is suicide or ... if the M-type is sooooooo deeply into a worthless person, there is only one reason I can think of - abuse. 

People generally stay with people of their same health level.  A healthy person will not stay with someone who is not.  So while we may be talking symbiosis, I would hope we were also talking about safety.  Perhaps it ought not be a given, but in my world it is.

People have needs.  To deny it is foolish at best.

peace,
sunshine



NihilusZero -> RE: Question regarding D/s dynamic (11/13/2009 5:00:38 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss

NZ,
I think we are talking about different things.  For a real life, long term relationship (healthy, that is), a certain symbiosis is necessary for whatever the relationship as is self-esteem.

Absolutely. But that just means that two (or more) people need to be compatible. Now, sure...most every male with merely superficial interested would raise his hand in the "would you like a slave who will do whatever you want without you having to give anything back other than the interaction you want?" questionnaire. But, assuming that the D-type actually seeks this and isn't just indulging the fantasy in his brain, all he needs is to find a slave that seeks such emotional and physical objectification. It all comes down to interpretation. It's extremely unlikely that he will encounter a slave that gets what s/he wants out of his indifference (emotionally?), but if there is one, then suddenly we just have an awkward yet functional relationship.

quote:

ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss

If we talk of M-types expecting everything and giving nothing, that M is setting himself up for failure.  The s-type will become a ball and chain because of the inability to receive.  People who have no perception of their need to receive are unhealthy, lacking in self esteem.

Unhealthy ≠ lack of self esteem. And we can't actually universally declare any interpretation of receiving as better or worse than the next (just more likely or not).

quote:

ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss

As time goes by, worthlessness builds, and the only recourse is suicide or ... if the M-type is sooooooo deeply into a worthless person, there is only one reason I can think of - abuse.

Why? How is feeling fulfilled in being worthless or keeping someone who feels fulfilled in such a way different than keeping someone who is fulfilled by getting beaten?

quote:

ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss

People generally stay with people of their same health level.  A healthy person will not stay with someone who is not.  So while we may be talking symbiosis, I would hope we were also talking about safety.  Perhaps it ought not be a given, but in my world it is.

Yet we are in a sub-populace that must inherently understand that "safety" must be an individually defined word.

quote:

ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss

People have needs.  To deny it is foolish at best.

Some people have fewer needs. Some people have weirder needs. Some people have needs that do not appear to be needs.



kasumi -> RE: Question regarding D/s dynamic (11/13/2009 5:50:54 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: breatheasone

Yes there are "D" types that want it all, and give nothing in return. i believe those are the "D" types that have  BIG bottles of lotion on their night tables. [;)][:D]
I like this response. I would think along the same lines. XD



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