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RE: Guy Fawkes Day - 11/6/2009 6:08:38 AM   
kittinSol


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SL4V3M4YB3

I have to confess I've not been to a bonfire for years so don't really know what violence kittinSol is referring to. Mostly it is people standing around as if they've never seen a fire before and burning their hands with sparklers. I think the anti catholic message isn't so resonant in modern bonfire sentiment.



The violence I witnessed was suggested by burning effigies of the Pope, Catholic nuns and other assorted "papists". I even saw a rather coarse caricature of a Jew being thrown in the Lewes bonfire, after which I made my excuses and left.

Haven't been back to one since  .

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RE: Guy Fawkes Day - 11/6/2009 6:28:59 AM   
SL4V3M4YB3


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From: S.E. London U.K.
Status: offline 		That would be a particularly bad experience, I can't say I've ever witnessed anything similar but then last one I went to was some time ago. These days most people probably go to organised events where I doubt such extreme ideologies would be tolerated whereas in the past it was whoever had enough space in their garden or wanted to put forward the funding for a public event.

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RE: Guy Fawkes Day - 11/6/2009 7:13:51 AM   
AnnaOfAramis


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quote:

The violence I witnessed was suggested by burning effigies of the Pope, Catholic nuns and other assorted "papists". I even saw a rather coarse caricature of a Jew being thrown in the Lewes bonfire, after which I made my excuses and left.

Haven't been back to one since .


Wow I'm shocked! To be honest I never even knew there WAS a catholic connection. Bear in mind the last time I went I was probably 7. And in those days, it was just a fun community evening down on the common, much like 4th of July here. The Guy was always simply Guy Fawkes... no other agenda. But I guess people will twist anything to their purpose. Sorry you had such a bad experience.

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RE: Guy Fawkes Day - 11/6/2009 11:29:56 AM   
kittinSol


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quote:

ORIGINAL: AnnaOfAramis
Sorry you had such a bad experience.


No need to be sorry, as I wasn't traumatized, but I appreciate the sentiment  . England can exhibit some rather unpleasant cultural idiosyncracies, just like everywhere else.

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RE: Guy Fawkes Day - 11/6/2009 1:13:16 PM   
Marc2b


Posts: 6660
Joined: 8/7/2006
Status: offline 		From some of the negatives associated with Guy Fawkes day that I'm reading about, maybe you guys should ditch the holiday and adopt our (American) version of Halloween, instead. It's such a fun holiday. The kids are always cute and precious and so much fun to watch (a holiday where it's okay to take candy from strangers? It's kid nirvana). Besides, any holiday that encourages you to go out and meet your neighbors is a good holiday. After the kids have crashed from their sugar rush, you dump them on grandma and grandpa and head out to the adult parties for some drunken revelries (with even cooler, and sometimes sexy, costumes). And you can still have the bonfires. Many Halloween parties are bonfire parties (we usually have them at my sister's house).

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RE: Guy Fawkes Day - 11/6/2009 2:19:57 PM   
SL4V3M4YB3


Posts: 3506
Joined: 12/20/2007
From: S.E. London U.K.
Status: offline 		There is no such thing as Guy Fawkes day actually because lighting fires and fireworks during the daytime doesn't give such a great effect. As for Halloween we had that the other week.

People can concentrate on the negatives or take the positives it's up to them what they get out of an occasion.


< Message edited by SL4V3M4YB3 -- 11/6/2009 2:20:38 PM >

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RE: Guy Fawkes Day - 11/6/2009 2:20:13 PM   
Vendaval


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Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline 		Good to have you posting again, kitten.  And good luck with sorting out everything in the move. 


quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b

Glad to see your back. I noticed you hadn't been posting for a little while - it's just not the same around here without our kittinsol.



It's very kind of you to say that - I have been moving all week and only got my connection back up last night :-) .


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RE: Guy Fawkes Day - 11/7/2009 5:44:26 AM   
BrokenSaint


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Joined: 10/30/2007
Status: offline 		Love that holiday, and not british! I just celebrate it because it's flippin fantastic. Seriously, what's not to love about fireworks and bonfires?

Also love that movie, and the book actually, just in different ways.

Evey: Is everything a joke to you, Gordon?
Gordon: Only the things that matter.


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RE: Guy Fawkes Day - 11/7/2009 8:55:59 AM   
LadyEllen


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Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		Ultimately its a survival/revival of ancient magic practices concerned with expunging evil from the world; as such its a practice dating back millennia, with variously people jumping through fires, cattle and livestock being driven between fires and latterly evil doers being put to the flames, for real and in effigy. The idea is that fire purifies, much like the sun is held to.

Guy Fawkes is merely the portrayal of an evil doer that has come to represent all evil doers and has survived the longest; after all, the gunpowder plot was nearly 400 years ago. Having said that though, its an event that seems to have lost much of its origins - I doubt very much whether most Brits know the first thing about them, and a good percentage wouldnt be able to relate any further explanation than that first thing. I havent seen an actual "Guy" in years.

As for fireworks, and ignoring the ridiculous situation that one must have a full police background check and obtain a licence to hold gunpowder even in negligible amounts but one may purchase as many fireworks as one can - its worth bearing in mind that these are not all the fun they appear to be; they are weapons in many hands, used to intimidate and threaten and injure others in our wonderful, tolerant society these days. We already had this year one death, after "anti social" (criminal) types put a firework though the letterbox of a family whose son was subject to "bullying" (criminal activity); no doubt the police will "learn the lessons", just like they did the last dozen times.

The truth of it is, despite perhaps the romantic notion of what Britain is like held by our American friends, that the vast majority have not progressed from the early 17th century, and are still more than willing and ready to use the kind of social attitudes held back then against anyone and everyone they perceive as a threat to their little worldview, and to use whatever comes to hand to do so - at this time of year its fireworks. Their sale to the public must be stopped. It makes no sense whatever to restrict by way of background checks that someone can acquire gunpowder, if we then allow the lowest sorts of scumbags to acquire it for a month or so each year to use in their low brow criminal activities to such devastating effect on others.

E

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RE: Guy Fawkes Day - 11/7/2009 12:00:58 PM   
SL4V3M4YB3


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Joined: 12/20/2007
From: S.E. London U.K.
Status: offline 		I second that.

I was walking home once in crowd of other commuters and these youths lobbed a 'banger' into the crowd of people ahead of me. I seriously wonder what goes through some people’s minds when they do such things. Probably their parents see an entirely different person than we would and would be absolutely shocked if their little sweetheart was brought home by the police for doing wrong.


< Message edited by SL4V3M4YB3 -- 11/7/2009 12:01:29 PM >

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RE: Guy Fawkes Day - 11/8/2009 6:23:32 AM   
BrokenSaint


Posts: 301
Joined: 10/30/2007
Status: offline 		Well therein lies the rub. There's people with fireworks, and there are assholes with fireworks. Assholes shouldn't have much of anything. This includes fireworks.

Restricting sales at least on this side of the pond does pretty much a whole lot of nothing. Inter-state regulations being what they are, people just drive to other states (where the more powerful fireworks are still in fact illegal, but can be purchased by out of staters), and drop a few grand and fuel their entire neighborhood for the fourth. Used to actually sell them one summer. Favorite job of all time. People from NY and NJ would come over to Pa, and I'd show them around the store, make recommendations, teach them things about the differences in color/price ratio, getting the biggest bang for your buck, coordinating a show, 'mortar safety, etc. Most of them dropped a few grand, helped em' pack it up in their cars, got myself a substantial tip, and called it a day. Then went and played with all the damaged fireworks that we couldn't sell (albeit that were still perfectly servicable. Say the outside paper is ripped on a cake (cake is the colloquial term for the bigass multishots) exposing the tubes. Even if none of the tubes are damaged in any way (if they were, then it was truly defective, and you wouldn't want to light that puppy, so obviously one checks it out thoroughly) it still can't be sold. But.. it can give the employees one hell of a house party if it disappears before being carted off to be disposed of.). Most of the incidents over here you see with fireworks are accidental deaths from people getting liquored up, and still lighting them off.

Unfortunately one still gets alot of improvised fireworks, made by kids at least around here. Noooooot the best idea, especially because most of them have never been taught how to properly handle anything larger than a sparkler, nor any experience in chem, explosives safety, lab protocols, etc. But the local professional shows, and the occasional individual who's trained putting on a neighborhood show thankfully cut down on it around the 4th.


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In the name of progress,
In the name of madness
Drum beats faster
Crowd shouts louder
and chaos replaces order
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RE: Guy Fawkes Day - 11/9/2009 1:04:15 PM   
DaftBloke


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b

Just wanted to say happy Guy Fawkes Day (or whatever it is you say on this day - merry Guy Fawkes Day?) to all our British friends out there.


All the best to you as well.

Aren't we British a merry bunch! Every year we celebrate some poor sod who got burnt alive for some trumped up charges of conspiring to blow up parliament.

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Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Guy Fawkes Day - 11/9/2009 3:00:22 PM   
philosophy


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Joined: 2/15/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Vendaval

"Remember, remember, the 5th of November..."


...gunpowder, treason and plot.
I see no reason
Why gunpowder treason
Should ever
be
forgot.

There ya go :) Hate to see an unfinished rhyme loafing around.

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Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Guy Fawkes Day - 11/9/2009 3:03:35 PM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		I have to admit as a kid, I never saw the anti catholic anger and nastiness regarding the burning of the guy.... we used to clean the garden, build a bonfire, for weeks before, collecting conkers , tree branches, garbage. Yep I was one of the little oiks who chanted penny for the guy, but we made the effort and werent nasty or vicious little bastards. We did have them in the neighbourhood tho, one little dipstick tried to hide a banger in his pocket and blew off a finger and a half.
I was a good lil girl and always went by blue peter rules(shep was bossy)
well at least till I got to about ten. Then we just used to walk down to the local park and watch the show they put on, get home and eat jacket taters with cheese and marmite...yummmmmmmm
I wouldprobably avoid it like the plague now, cept I do love fireworks, always have, always will.



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RE: Guy Fawkes Day - 11/9/2009 3:31:08 PM   
Marc2b


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Joined: 8/7/2006
Status: offline 		Hey, there, Philosophy. Good to see you back.


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Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Guy Fawkes Day - 11/9/2009 4:17:49 PM   
philosophy


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Status: offline 		....combination of boredom, moving house, going on holiday and such like kept me away.......but i'm vaccinated now and raring to go :)

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Profile   Post #: 36
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