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RE: Giant Crack in Africa Will Create a New Ocean - 11/4/2009 6:28:16 PM   
servantforuse


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This is why I don't see climate change as any thing to worry about. The earth is in constant change as is the earths climate. Al Gore and the other global warming alarmists will someday be proven wrong,

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RE: Giant Crack in Africa Will Create a New Ocean - 11/4/2009 6:52:46 PM   
Louve00


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Slabs like this that sink oceanic crust are called subduction zones, and those adjacent to Japan produce intense and damaging seismic activity. "We have discovered an analogous subduction zone, deep inside the Earth below the central Mississippi River Valley," Forte said.
Full article here:

http://www.livescience.com/environment/070502_newmadrid_quake.html




Yes, I saw that about subduction zones.  From the way I understood it, its tactonic plates that aren't level and are askew to each other.  Their shift causes a sinking in one area and a build up (sort of land crumbling up into a pile), in the area next to the sinking.  There's one of the biggest, if not the biggest that is supposedly in the pacific ocean (somewhere in the zone between Japan, Hawaii, and Alaska, I think).  That's supposed to be something thats going to shift again in the future and will cause big tsunami's along the pacific coast.  I can only imagine (well, really I can't imagine it lol), what would happen if something like that started happening in the heartland region of the US.  I'm no scientist by any means, but it makes me wonder if something like that (aside from earthquakes) could form a crack like in Africa, that could also lead to another ocean?  But maybe not.  According to your link, the ground is ripping apart underneath (in Africa).  Subduction zones are an uneven collision, not a seperation.

It really is interesting....and good food for imagination and wonder (and learning about it)

< Message edited by Louve00 -- 11/4/2009 6:56:53 PM >


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RE: Giant Crack in Africa Will Create a New Ocean - 11/4/2009 7:19:35 PM   
DemonKia


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Yep, Missouri, the New Madrid quakes in 1811 & 1812 is what I had in mind . . ... A counter to all those who somehow think Cali is the only seismically interesting spot in the lower 48, or even just that the Pacific coast has a lock on the earthquake express . . .. .. Or other exotic, distant lands .. . .

Tho' Sanity also posted something about the New Madrid quakes after my question but apparently not in response . . . . .



quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

quote:

ORIGINAL: DemonKia

lol

Trust me, I pay attention to news about volcanoes . . . . .

However, I also note the igneous boulders that stud the entirety of the northern half of California, a distance of hundreds of miles . .. . . They are the result of the super-volcano that exploded & of which Shasta & Lassen (our 2 local volcanic events) are mere remnants from the edge of that enormous geo-event. Happened millenia ago, & being in Nevada & Oregon, possibly Utah & Idaho, wouldn't have helped keep one away . . . .

Mama Earth, so much bigger than us . ... .

& trickier. Anyone wanna hazard a guess where the largest earthquake happened (& when) in the lower-48 states of the USofA?


The Lower 48? Most people would guess California, but the New Madrid Quakes in 1811 and 1812 were estimated to be around magnitude 8, and California's largest quake was a 7.9 near Parkfield. So I'll say Missouri. The largest recorded quake in the US (and North America) was the Prince William Sound Quake in 1964. 9.2, I believe. And the largest quake in the Western Hemisphere was a 9.5 in Chile, around 1960 or thereabouts. In fact, that might have been the largest quake ever recorded anywhere, but I'm not certain of that. Either way, we've picked a might dangerous half of the planet to live on, eh?



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RE: Giant Crack in Africa Will Create a New Ocean - 11/4/2009 7:34:04 PM   
thornhappy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DemonKia

Yep, Missouri, the New Madrid quakes in 1811 & 1812 is what I had in mind . . ... A counter to all those who somehow think Cali is the only seismically interesting spot in the lower 48, or even just that the Pacific coast has a lock on the earthquake express . . .. .. Or other exotic, distant lands .. . .

Tho' Sanity also posted something about the New Madrid quakes after my question but apparently not in response . . . . .

The really evil thing about another "New Madrid"-style quake is that none of the buildings in the zone are built to seismic standards.  The damage would be horrendous.

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RE: Giant Crack in Africa Will Create a New Ocean - 11/4/2009 8:16:45 PM   
ThatDamnedPanda


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thornhappy

quote:

ORIGINAL: DemonKia

Yep, Missouri, the New Madrid quakes in 1811 & 1812 is what I had in mind . . ... A counter to all those who somehow think Cali is the only seismically interesting spot in the lower 48, or even just that the Pacific coast has a lock on the earthquake express . . .. .. Or other exotic, distant lands .. . .

Tho' Sanity also posted something about the New Madrid quakes after my question but apparently not in response . . . . .

The really evil thing about another "New Madrid"-style quake is that none of the buildings in the zone are built to seismic standards.  The damage would be horrendous.



They've had 3 small earthquakes on that fault just this week. It's the most geologically active region east of the Rockies. Just a matter of time before she lets go again, and I don't want to be anywhere near it when it does. If I recall correctly, the soil conditions in that region particularly lend themselves to catastrophic structural damage in the event of a major quake. Memphis will take the biggest hit, but Nashville, Little Rock, and even St. Louis could be slapped around pretty hard, too. It won't be pretty.


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RE: Giant Crack in Africa Will Create a New Ocean - 11/4/2009 8:29:17 PM   
LadyEllen


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There is one hell of a gag laying concealed in that thread title - but no one should try to formulate it for the audience

After all we dont want ruptures or anyone having an "accident"

E

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RE: Giant Crack in Africa Will Create a New Ocean - 11/4/2009 8:52:05 PM   
Marc2b


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quote:

This is why I don't see climate change as any thing to worry about. The earth is in constant change as is the earths climate.


My feelings exactly. There are so many ways our heaving, belching, grinding Earth with it's turbulant, constantly changing atmosphere, can do us in. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for not polluting our air, water and soil but having a clean enviroment is reason enough not to dump toxic waste in rivers or to find ways to cut back on emmisions - we don't need to get into a fanatical snit over trying to "save the planet (I think George Carlin summed it up well)" or "stop climate change (what conceit , why not try to change the Earth's oribt while you're at it)."

quote:

Al Gore and the other global warming alarmists will someday be proven wrong,


No, actually, they will someday be "proven" right because predicting climate change is like perdicting there will be an auto accident somewhere on the planet, tommorow. Predicting a given is no prediction at all.


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RE: Giant Crack in Africa Will Create a New Ocean - 11/4/2009 9:31:35 PM   
ThatDamnedPanda


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Louve00

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Slabs like this that sink oceanic crust are called subduction zones, and those adjacent to Japan produce intense and damaging seismic activity. "We have discovered an analogous subduction zone, deep inside the Earth below the central Mississippi River Valley," Forte said.
Full article here:

http://www.livescience.com/environment/070502_newmadrid_quake.html




Yes, I saw that about subduction zones.  From the way I understood it, its tactonic plates that aren't level and are askew to each other.  Their shift causes a sinking in one area and a build up (sort of land crumbling up into a pile), in the area next to the sinking.  There's one of the biggest, if not the biggest that is supposedly in the pacific ocean (somewhere in the zone between Japan, Hawaii, and Alaska, I think).  That's supposed to be something thats going to shift again in the future and will cause big tsunami's along the pacific coast.


The Ring of Fire - essentially the entire rim of the Pacific Ocean, from the tip of South America all the way to Alaska, then around Kamchtaka and down the eastern edge of Asia to around Indonesia, then sharply eastward past the northeastern edge of Australia, then doglegging sharply south through the Tonga Trench. It's by far the most geologically active area of the Earth, accounting for 90% of the planet's earthquakes and 75% of the volcanoes.

The way subduction works is relatively simple, on the face of it (although the exact mechanics are poorly understood). Oceanic plates are both thinner and denser than continental plates, so when the two types of plates collide, the oceanic plate slides down underneath the thicker, but lighter, continental plate. Thus the oceanic plate "subducts", and the area where the plates meet is a "subduction zone." As the lighter continental plate is forced up over the oceanic plate, friction between the two masses causes the plates to lock together for long periods of time until the momentum behind the moving plates becomes so great that it breaks free and lurches several inches, or even several meters, instantaneously. Smaller movements produce smaller earthquakes, but in places where the stress has not been relieved for long periods of time, the movement can be as much as 7 to 10 meters - or more. When this much mass moves that far and that suddenly, it's a major quake, and since the subduction zones are underwater, the sudden displacement of huge volumes of water can often cause a devastating tsunami.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Louve00
I can only imagine (well, really I can't imagine it lol), what would happen if something like that started happening in the heartland region of the US.  I'm no scientist by any means, but it makes me wonder if something like that (aside from earthquakes) could form a crack like in Africa, that could also lead to another ocean?  But maybe not.  According to your link, the ground is ripping apart underneath (in Africa).  Subduction zones are an uneven collision, not a seperation.


Just as subduction zones occur on the front edges of moving tectonic plates, rift zones form at the back edges. The mid-Atlantic Ridge, for example, is a rift zone on the back edge of the North American Plate, the same plate whose front edge is riding up over  the top of the Pacific Plate in the Ring of Fire. What is happening in Africa is an area of separation called the East African Rift Zone, a portion of the Aftican Plate that is pulling apart. The thing is, though, that nobody really knows for certain why. There are various theories - the crust in that portion of the plate just happens to be weaker, or there is a hot plume from the mantle rising just beneath the rift, or a combination of the two factors, or something else entirely - but nobody really knows for sure. So nobody can really say where other rift zones may form.

Can it happen in North America? It already did. About 1.1 billion years ago, a rift (the Midcontinent Rift System) began to tear the North American Plate in half, right down the middle - from what is now southern Canada all the way to Kansas. Lake Superior is the northern end of it, part of the Saint Croix River just 10 miles east of my house follows the path of it, and the entire North Shore of Lake Superior is lined with extinct volcanoes from the intense, almost constant volcanic eruptions that blanketed tens of thousands of square miles of North America with basaltic lava flows for tens of millions of years. For about 20 to 25 million years, the continent slowly pulled itself apart, and then... it just stopped.

Geologists don't know what stopped it, but they are fairly certain that it stopped just on the very brink of becoming an ocean. The Midcontinent Rift System is the largest "healed" rift on Earth; every other rift that is larger than this one did, in fact, become an ocean. Why did this one stop tearing the continent in half? Nobody knows. And nobody knows why it started, either - so nobody really knows for sure that it won't happen again, either there or someplace else. It's not likely, but... it is possible. Nothing we can do except get up and check the basement floor ver-r-r-ry carefully for fresh cracks every morning.

< Message edited by ThatDamnedPanda -- 11/4/2009 9:45:30 PM >


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RE: Giant Crack in Africa Will Create a New Ocean - 11/4/2009 9:40:14 PM   
TheHeretic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

quote:



A 35-mile rift in the desert of Ethiopia will likely become a new ocean eventually, researchers now confirm.


The crack, 20 feet wide in spots, opened in 2005 and some geologists believed then that it would spawn a new ocean. But that view was controversial, and the rift had not been well studied.


A new study involving an international team of scientists and reported in the journal Geophysical Research Letters finds the processes creating the rift are nearly identical to what goes on at the bottom of oceans, further indication a sea is in the region's future.


The same rift activity is slowly parting the Red Sea, too. Using newly gathered seismic data from 2005, researchers reconstructed the event to show the rift tore open along its entire 35-mile length in just days. Dabbahu, a volcano at the northern end of the rift, erupted first, then magma pushed up through the middle of the rift area and began "unzipping" the rift in both directions, the researchers explained in a statement today.


"We know that seafloor ridges are created by a similar intrusion of magma into a rift, but we never knew that a huge length of the ridge could break open at once like this," said Cindy Ebinger, professor of earth and environmental sciences at the University of Rochester and co-author of the study.


The result shows that highly active volcanic boundaries along the edges of tectonic ocean plates may suddenly break apart in large sections, instead of in bits, as the leading theory held. And such sudden large-scale events on land pose a much more serious hazard to populations living near the rift than would several smaller events, Ebinger said. 
Full article at:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/livescience/giantcrackinafricawillcreateanewocean


(Edited because I accidentally posted the original article in the wrong section)




Hey, Sanity, wanna bet a Euro on whether The Nation or Huffington Post are first to claim the additional weight of US forces in the middle east is literally ripping the earth apart?

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RE: Giant Crack in Africa Will Create a New Ocean - 11/4/2009 10:00:12 PM   
ThatDamnedPanda


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quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

This is why I don't see climate change as any thing to worry about. The earth is in constant change as is the earths climate.


That's like saying you're not worried about axe murderers because you're a careful driver. There is no comparison between plate tectonics and climate. The two subjects could not possibly be more unrelated, so there's just no rational way to use one as an example to prove a point about the other.


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RE: Giant Crack in Africa Will Create a New Ocean - 11/4/2009 10:42:01 PM   
Marc2b


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quote:

That's like saying you're not worried about axe murderers because you're a careful driver. There is no comparison between plate tectonics and climate. The two subjects could not possibly be more unrelated, so there's just no rational way to use one as an example to prove a point about the other.


Plate tectonics is responsible for volcanos, as you youself pointed out. Volcanos with all the gasses and heat they spew out most certainly have an affect on the climate. Plate tectonics also re-aranges the shape of the planet's landmasses and that too has a termendous affect on the climate. After all if you suddenly (suddenly in a relative - geologic - timescale) have an ocean where there wasn't one before - changing the world's ocean currents, which will change the wind currents...

Plate tectonics affects on the climate may be slow, but it's profound. To say that they are unrelated... c'mon!


< Message edited by Marc2b -- 11/4/2009 10:46:02 PM >


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RE: Giant Crack in Africa Will Create a New Ocean - 11/4/2009 10:44:51 PM   
ThatDamnedPanda


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b

quote:

That's like saying you're not worried about axe murderers because you're a careful driver. There is no comparison between plate tectonics and climate. The two subjects could not possibly be more unrelated, so there's just no rational way to use one as an example to prove a point about the other.


Plate tectonics is responsible for volcanos, as you youself pointed out. Volcanos with all the gasses and heat they spew out most certainly have an affect on the climate. Plate tectonics also re-aranges the shape of the planet's landmasses and that too has a termendous affect on the climate. After all if you suddenly (suddenly in a relative - geologic - timescale) have an ocean where there wasn't one before - changing the ocean currents, which will change the wind currents...

Plate tectonics affects on the climate may be slow, but it's profound. To say that they are unrelated... cmon!



For the purposes of comparison, yes - they are completely dissimilar.


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RE: Giant Crack in Africa Will Create a New Ocean - 11/4/2009 10:49:33 PM   
BiteGirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DemonKia

FR, after read thru

Ummmmm, OP, there's a term that might come in handy: geological time. As in, millions of years for significant change to happen. Or, at least, hundreds of thousands . . . . .

Yeah, there'll be oceans & land masses movin' about, quite lively in geologic time, for a long time to come. Probably long after humans have blazed their trail of glory on thru . . . ..

But in people years? Don't hold any breath would be my advice . . . . .

*said from that geologic hot-spot, Cali (sliding into the ocean at about an inch or so a year); Chico's outside the earthquake hot-spots, but only an hour or two's drive from 2 active volcanoes -- yee-haw!!*


There's plenty going on in geology at the moment... the galapogos moves every year, oceans are rising, ice is melting, etc. etc.

Some of it is caused by us, sure... but the shocking thing, it's not all *about* us. We're one of many species the world over. This is about the planet we all occupy and it's changes, which may be devistating, but are still very interesting.

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RE: Giant Crack in Africa Will Create a New Ocean - 11/4/2009 10:57:55 PM   
Marc2b


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quote:

For the purposes of comparison, yes - they are completely dissimilar.


You said the two are unrelated. They are not. Plate tectonics affects climate.

How is being killed by an earthquake - caused by plate tectonics - all that dissimilar from being killed by a hurricane caused by climate change? Dead is dead. Why waste your time worrying about forces beyond your control? Taking reasonable precautions is one thing. Thinking we can engineer the climate into some sort of premanent pleasant state - which too many people think we can do if we just stop driving SUVs and eat tofu instead of beef - is another thing. It is daft, is what it is.


< Message edited by Marc2b -- 11/4/2009 10:58:16 PM >


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RE: Giant Crack in Africa Will Create a New Ocean - 11/5/2009 4:24:24 AM   
Louve00


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

Just as subduction zones occur on the front edges of moving tectonic plates, rift zones form at the back edges. The mid-Atlantic Ridge, for example, is a rift zone on the back edge of the North American Plate, the same plate whose front edge is riding up over  the top of the Pacific Plate in the Ring of Fire. What is happening in Africa is an area of separation called the East African Rift Zone, a portion of the Aftican Plate that is pulling apart. The thing is, though, that nobody really knows for certain why. There are various theories - the crust in that portion of the plate just happens to be weaker, or there is a hot plume from the mantle rising just beneath the rift, or a combination of the two factors, or something else entirely - but nobody really knows for sure. So nobody can really say where other rift zones may form.

Can it happen in North America? It already did. About 1.1 billion years ago, a rift (the Midcontinent Rift System) began to tear the North American Plate in half, right down the middle - from what is now southern Canada all the way to Kansas. Lake Superior is the northern end of it, part of the Saint Croix River just 10 miles east of my house follows the path of it, and the entire North Shore of Lake Superior is lined with extinct volcanoes from the intense, almost constant volcanic eruptions that blanketed tens of thousands of square miles of North America with basaltic lava flows for tens of millions of years. For about 20 to 25 million years, the continent slowly pulled itself apart, and then... it just stopped.

Geologists don't know what stopped it, but they are fairly certain that it stopped just on the very brink of becoming an ocean. The Midcontinent Rift System is the largest "healed" rift on Earth; every other rift that is larger than this one did, in fact, become an ocean. Why did this one stop tearing the continent in half? Nobody knows. And nobody knows why it started, either - so nobody really knows for sure that it won't happen again, either there or someplace else. It's not likely, but... it is possible. Nothing we can do except get up and check the basement floor ver-r-r-ry carefully for fresh cracks every morning.


Interesting stuff.

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RE: Giant Crack in Africa Will Create a New Ocean - 11/5/2009 6:23:57 AM   
Sanity


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Thanks for the contribution Panda, that was a good read.

The Cascadia subduction zone:








http://www.pnsn.org/HAZARDS/CASCADIA/cascadia_zone.html


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RE: Giant Crack in Africa Will Create a New Ocean - 11/5/2009 7:36:24 AM   
pahunkboy


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I am not worried about this.


NEXT!

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RE: Giant Crack in Africa Will Create a New Ocean - 11/5/2009 7:43:40 AM   
SL4V3M4YB3


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This is only because as yet you have failed to see the link as others have to the future one world government and flu jab. You'd be worried then mister!

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RE: Giant Crack in Africa Will Create a New Ocean - 11/5/2009 8:01:21 AM   
pahunkboy


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Not about this.

This will take thousands of years- I will be dead by then.

I am concerned over my heat bills for the winter.  Now THAT is a worry.

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RE: Giant Crack in Africa Will Create a New Ocean - 11/5/2009 8:11:59 AM   
SL4V3M4YB3


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Well I for one am not looking forward to an explosion in the number of pirates by 4009.

< Message edited by SL4V3M4YB3 -- 11/5/2009 8:12:22 AM >


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