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RE: Others and comfort - 10/26/2009 2:38:56 PM

NihilusZero

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From: Nashville, TN
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quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionAndi

Ahh i see! I just thought as she had said she was a switch, so she would have slightly more say in the matter..no?

I dont see how it doesnt make sense though, unless the other doesnt know about her. Im not ploy but i would have thought that the primary sub/slave (especially if switch) would have a say over the other sub/slave...

What I mean is, why would it be the other girl's responsibility, rather than his (being the OP's partner) to contact the OP for permission? It's strictly a matter between the OP and her boyfriend.

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(in reply to OrionAndi)

Post #: 21

RE: Others and comfort - 10/26/2009 2:48:53 PM

OrionAndi

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Joined: 9/18/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionAndi

Ahh i see! I just thought as she had said she was a switch, so she would have slightly more say in the matter..no?

I dont see how it doesnt make sense though, unless the other doesnt know about her. Im not ploy but i would have thought that the primary sub/slave (especially if switch) would have a say over the other sub/slave...

What I mean is, why would it be the other girl's responsibility, rather than his (being the OP's partner) to contact the OP for permission? It's strictly a matter between the OP and her boyfriend.

Good point! I stand corrected.

(in reply to NihilusZero)

Post #: 22

RE: Others and comfort - 10/26/2009 2:59:20 PM

MasterSlaveLA

Posts: 3991
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Laneychelle

I've been in a poly relationship for several months now.. and my other has kept his other in another part of the state and has named me his primary... giving me turf law in order for me to feel safe and comfortable in my own area where a lot of the people I'm around do not understand the concept of having others.

His other is also an ex girlfriend whom he has explained to me is just a friend with benefits now, but who also has all the traits he has ever wanted in a partner.. he says they will never get together in a serious way again, but that he still wants this type of relationship with her.

It really bothers me to hear him talk about this girl he loves and lost and it feels like she is more a primary than I am even though she is several hours away.

Now the dillema. She is driving through town this evening and ask him to ask me for permission for her to stay at his place with him tonight.. He asked me and I said I was uncomfortable with her on my turf.. in my area.. excercising his turf law he gave me.. at that point it felt to me that my opinion didn't matter when it came to her and that he was going to do whatever he pleased regardless of my opinion..

So I gave him permission to have her over but not to play. and he still doesn't seem happy.. I had originally been considering seeing if he wanted to stay with me tonight... before this all happened, I just hadn't had a chance to ask him before he dropped this bomb shell on me.. I'm just really confused and would like some advice on how to handle this...

I'm not getting how ANY of this is in ANY way "poly"... more like an "open relationship" on his end, and not so much on your end. Plus, he has to ask YOUR permission just to let a chick spend the night?!! Lots of interesting things going on here.

< Message edited by MasterSlaveLA -- 10/26/2009 3:04:44 PM >

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Post #: 23

RE: Others and comfort - 10/26/2009 3:47:33 PM

DomImus

Posts: 2004
Joined: 3/17/2009
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What exactly is "turf law" in this context? I can think of several things it might mean but it doesn't seem like it amounts to much other than some empty promise if you are subject to being overruled at his leisure on your own turf.

What happens when he meets his next other and develops feelings for her along the lines of the feelings he has for the ex? Will it be okay so long as she doesn't live on your turf? If she does live on your turf and you object will he just overrule you again?

I don't really get why it's not a problem for him to visit her at her place but not for her to come to his (if I understood you correctly). If you wanted him over tonight and they made plans first well then too bad. You snooze you lose. If you told him that you wanted him to stay and he opted for the ex that's good information for you.

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(in reply to Laneychelle)

Post #: 24

RE: Others and comfort - 10/26/2009 4:58:02 PM

AnimusRex

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Joined: 5/13/2006
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This sounds like poly is being used to cover up a bad dynamic.

As others have pointed out, it doesn't sound like they made a conscious decision to be poly, it sounds more like he slowly let slip about the other girl, and the three of them sorta kinda tried to make it poly (instead of him being conflicted), and now of course, things are morphing yet again.
Normally I would agree with Lady Pact; that if he were the captain of the ship, then he would simply make it so; but in this case it doesn't soound like he has it worked out in his head- he isn't sure who is in charge, or how he feels about the other girl, or the OP herself.

All very bad signals from the captain of the ship.

(in reply to DomImus)

Post #: 25

RE: Others and comfort - 10/26/2009 6:47:21 PM

sweetsub1957

Posts: 2201
Joined: 4/28/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

I know this is going to sound very uncaring of Me, but if you were My sub, the choice wouldn't be in your hands. I would listen to your input and take it into consideration, but the decision would be Mine. As I often say in these matters, I'm the one in charge around here.

Now see, that's what I was thinking too. But if He were the Dominant, why would He give her the say, even in that one area? But then, I'm not poly so maybe I don't understand.

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In lowering yourself to talking behind my back, you're perfectly positioned to kiss my ass.

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(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 26

RE: Others and comfort - 10/26/2009 6:53:58 PM

catize

Posts: 3020
Joined: 3/7/2006
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quote:

It really bothers me to hear him talk about this girl he loves and lost and it feels like she is more a primary than I am

I believe this is the core of your problem.
We don't choose our feelings. His feelings for the other person are what they are.
You can't control his feelings either.
In this situation, you only have control over whether you can accept it or need to reject it. Painful as either option may be, it comes down to what you can live with best.

< Message edited by catize -- 10/26/2009 6:54:40 PM >

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(in reply to Laneychelle)

Post #: 27

RE: Others and comfort - 10/27/2009 7:34:44 AM

Andalusite

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Joined: 1/25/2009
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sweetsub and LP, I respect your choices in this area, but if my Master wanted to get involved sexually/romantically with anyone he chose, without any input from me, I wouldn't have agreed to be his in the first place. We negotiated this ahead of time, and I'm not interested in a completely open relationship or casual sex. It's far too risky in terms of STD's, as well as emotionally. We have a playpartner who we do BDSM with, and I'm fine with him doing casual S/M or bondage with anyone. Getting involved in a closed poly relationship involves compatibility on all sides, IMHO, even if it's a vee (not everyone sexually involved) rather than a triad. I'm open to either, as long as I like and trust the other woman who we're considering. It seems like a lot of people view it as you have to be monogamous or else completely open, and I think it's perfectly reasonable for a couple or poly group to negotiate something in between.

sweetsub, you asked, "Why would he give her any say?" In our case, it isn't very important to him that he exercise complete control in this specific area. In the case of the OP and her guy, it doesn't sound like they are in a D/s relationship with an overt power exchange, more like it's an egalitarian kinky relationship. It's still BDSM, even without D/s.

< Message edited by Andalusite -- 10/27/2009 7:37:29 AM >

(in reply to catize)

Post #: 28

RE: Others and comfort - 10/27/2009 8:15:17 AM

LadyPact

Posts: 32566
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Good Morning Anda. My best to you and yours.

I do hear what you are saying. I think I'm reading it differently. It's not so much the case where there's no input involved. There is a difference between not being allowed to have input and getting that input, but not agreeing with it. What's being said here is that it isn't just anyone. There's nothing said about a reason to distrust this other person. It was someone the male in the story already had a prior relationship with, so I'm highly doubting that she's going to steal the car or the credit cards.

I'm actually very much in favor of people in an established relationship having veto power. Many times, it's the outside person looking in who can spot things that the person involved with the new person might not see. I don't think that's what is happening here. I think catize is spot on with her assessment. The real problem here is that the ex is too perfect and the primary girl feels threatened by her.

As you know, I'm in full agreement with you about your feelings on casual sex/risk of STDs. I don't think that's the issue here either, if it's not a problem to the OP that he sees her elsewhere.

I think the OP's fear about the ex holding more of the male's heart is what's really the problem. Now that it's right in front of her, she has to face it.

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(in reply to Andalusite)

Post #: 29

RE: Others and comfort - 10/27/2009 9:27:29 AM

sweetsub1957

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Joined: 4/28/2009
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~Fast Reply~
I guess I should have been more specific. I should have said, He should consider her feelings, but HE should have the final say as the Dominant. Of course if, in that one area, He agreed to needing her approval, then He should act accordingly.

_____________________________

Member: Lance's Fag Hags.

"That's not just a chip on her shoulder, that's the whole potato!" ~Lady Angelika~

In lowering yourself to talking behind my back, you're perfectly positioned to kiss my ass.

An it harm none, do what ye wilt.

(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 30

RE: Others and comfort - 10/27/2009 9:58:21 AM

CalifChick

Posts: 10717
Joined: 10/28/2007
From: California
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I won't pretend that I even BEGIN to understand a switch dynamic where authority seems to go back and forth between two people. I am thoroughly confused as to who has authority and who doesn't. It appears that she has the authority, since she gave "permission". If she gave permission and then changed her mind, why doesn't she retract that permission?

And if she doesn't have authority, why all the hoo-hah over this anyway?

ConfusedCali

_____________________________

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(in reply to sweetsub1957)

Post #: 31

RE: Others and comfort - 10/27/2009 10:32:39 AM

abuddingdom

Posts: 158
Joined: 3/8/2007
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Questions to the OP : you state that you exercised the turf rights which you had negotiated, but then it "felt" to you that your opinion didn't matter "so" you gave in. At the very least you guys have problems with communication and follow-through.For example, when you told us that you gave in you actually used the words " gave him permission" - semantics are a double edged sword and can be used to distract ftom the real issues&for other unhonorable purpose, but clear definition in your agreements&mutual understanding is paramount - so what did you mean? And, you have your part re not following through on an agreement -you didn't follow through simply because you "felt" he was thinking or feeling something. Don't project on him or try to read his mind(or heart). I'm not just laying out criticism here, though. If you're both committed you can recognise this&work on it. We're still working on both of these things over a year&a half in but the more you do something the less difficult it gets.

I'm going to take it further and question whether this isa healthy case of polyamory. I'm far from an expert on this subject and will defer to those that are, but I see no sense of community in what you're decribing about the three of you. Good luck......

(in reply to OrionAndi)

Post #: 32

RE: Others and comfort - 10/27/2009 1:45:51 PM

antipode

Posts: 1787
Joined: 4/19/2004
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quote:

I did not enter into an open relationship knowing he still had feelings for his ex

I am confused. This is a poly relationship - did you do a contract, beforehand, who he can and cannot have feelings for? Me personally, if you're getting possessive already, you need to either get some counseling, or forget about poly. There are probably a lot of things you "didn't know", but if that means you can't handle them you need to think again..

(in reply to Laneychelle)

Post #: 33

RE: Others and comfort - 10/27/2009 2:41:04 PM

HerLord

Posts: 697
Joined: 2/14/2008
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OK. some fairly confused posts here. You have a complicated situation. You got alot of different input. ALL of them sound to me like they're saying you ain't in the right place. Whether it be yours or his, somethings not meshing. Sounds to me, like he wants ex. You wants, him. Ex wants something else. NO ONE seams to want the same thing. THAT is NECESSARY. Every one in a relation ship has to have a common goal for it to be achieved.

Think on that. and happy Hunting.

Peace

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(in reply to antipode)

Post #: 34

RE: Others and comfort - 10/27/2009 7:12:36 PM

Andalusite

Posts: 2492
Joined: 1/25/2009
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Thanks for the good wishes, LadyPact! I just want to clarify that in my relationship, I most definitely wouldn't say that my Master needs to "ask my permission." I think that phrasing it that way, and having that attitude, would be disrespectful. My Master has the authority to order me to play non-sexually with anyone he chooses, and I will not play with anyone without his express consent. He is entitled to play non-sexually with anyone he wishes. I'd strongly prefer to get to at least talk with the other lady first, away from the playspace/ahead of time, but that's something that we can negotiate. That's something we discussed before we got together, and he knows where my comfort levels are.

I think the way I phrased my post was a little confusing - the first part was my thoughts on *in general* a submissive or slave having some input into a person being brought into the relationship, so I was relating it to my own circumstances. I agree with you that it sounds like she's uncomfortable specifically with the emotional intimacy, rather than other concerns.

sweetsub, her profile isn't very specific, but I had the impression from her posts earlier that there isn't an authority dynamic involved, so he doesn't get final say as the Dominant.

CalifChick, "permission" is probably rather imprecise - it's not that she's the dominant, but rather that he has agreed to abide by her comfort level, as best as I can tell. I've dated a couple of other switches, and have been in egalitarian kinky relationships before. For me at least, it wasn't that the authority went back and forth, but rather that we negotiated things collaboratively, with both of us having an equal say (or whoever it mattered more to having the edge). In most of those relationships, I leaned slightly dominant and they leaned slightly submissive, but there wasn't a specific D/s dynamic negotiated. They just were willing to do things in whatever way I liked and made me the most comfortable, unless it impinged on *their* boundaries.

Lanychelle, I've been in two MFM vee poly-ish relationships in the past, both times with the boyfriend I had at the time and someone who I had previously dated. We still loved/cared about each other, and were attracted to each other, but had broken up for logistical reasons (incompatible schedules, one of us moving away respectively). The two of them were close friends in both cases, and the three of us would go out to dinner together, hang out and watch TV with me draped across both their laps, they'd gang up on me and tickle me/wrestle around with me, and both of them would kiss me at the same time, and in one of the relationships, they sometimes co-topped me. No "turf war" was involved. At this point, with so much antagonism, it may be too late, but it might be worth trying to spend some time together, on IM, playing online games, talking on the phone, and maybe hanging out in person. If you can develop some trust in her and start to care about her, then perhaps you won't feel threatened or uncomfortable about your boyfriend being with her. Try to find some commonalities, see her good points, see her as a person. I'm not suggesting you play with her or have sex with her, just get to know her and hopefully be at least friendly acquaintances.

< Message edited by Andalusite -- 10/27/2009 7:15:36 PM >

(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 35

RE: Others and comfort - 10/27/2009 7:29:28 PM

CalifChick

Posts: 10717
Joined: 10/28/2007
From: California
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Andalusite

CalifChick, "permission" is probably rather imprecise

They were her words, I can only go by what she said. I won't begin to assume she really meant something else.

quote:

it's not that she's the dominant, but rather that he has agreed to abide by her comfort level, as best as I can tell. I've dated a couple of other switches, and have been in egalitarian kinky relationships before. For me at least, it wasn't that the authority went back and forth, but rather that we negotiated things collaboratively, with both of us having an equal say (or whoever it mattered more to having the edge). In most of those relationships, I leaned slightly dominant and they leaned slightly submissive, but there wasn't a specific D/s dynamic negotiated. They just were willing to do things in whatever way I liked and made me the most comfortable, unless it impinged on *their* boundaries.

Thanks for the effort, but it didn't help at all. Sounds like a vanilla, non-power-exchange poly relationship.

Cali

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(in reply to Andalusite)

Post #: 36

RE: Others and comfort - 10/27/2009 7:42:56 PM

Andalusite

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Joined: 1/25/2009
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Umm, S/M and bondage aren't vanilla! Only one of the relationships I mentioned was poly, I just had more than one of them sequentially.

(in reply to CalifChick)

Post #: 37

RE: Others and comfort - 10/27/2009 7:46:18 PM

CalifChick

Posts: 10717
Joined: 10/28/2007
From: California
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By "vanilla", I was referring to the use of the term "switch", not the activities. Sorry I wasn't clear.

Cali

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(in reply to Andalusite)

Post #: 38

RE: Others and comfort - 10/27/2009 8:05:33 PM

Andalusite

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Joined: 1/25/2009
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I still don't get it. Switches aren't vanilla, even when we don't do D/s. Vanilla means you aren't into kinky stuff *or* power exchange. I haven't had a vanilla relationship in 15 years.

(in reply to CalifChick)

Post #: 39

RE: Others and comfort - 10/27/2009 8:38:17 PM

CalifChick

Posts: 10717
Joined: 10/28/2007
From: California
Status: offline

I don't think you're understanding me. I don't understand the power-exchange aspect of people who say they are switches with EACH OTHER. If there is no power exchange, then aren't they just people who take turns topping and bottoming? If there is no power exchange, what makes them a switch and not just another boyfriend-girlfriend where whoever cares more about the issue is the one that usually decides it (or is deferred to). This OP says she is a switch, but gives her man permission to do something, but then is upset about it. THAT is what I don't get. How can you trade off power with each other?

Cali

_____________________________

AKA "The Undisputed Goddess of Sarcasm", "Big Bad Cali" and "Yum Bum". Advisor to the Subbie Mafia, founding member of the W.A.C. and the Judgmental Bitches Brigade, member of the Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair-a's and Team Troll

(in reply to Andalusite)

Post #: 40

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