RE: need help explaining myself to my boyfriend

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Acer49 -> RE: need help explaining myself to my boyfriend (10/21/2009 5:32:59 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lucylucy My boyfriend wanted to play with someone else and asked me if I was ok with that. I said I was as long as he told me about it afterwards and answered my questions. He agreed to this. He played with the other person and then told me he didn’t actually want to tell me about it or answer my questions. I told him that I had problems with him changing the terms after the fact and his response was that there wasn’t much to tell. He refused to say much beyond that. A week later, he said he wanted to play with this other person again, and I reiterated that I was ok with that but that it was very important to me that he tell me about it. His response this time was more along the lines of “I don’t want to tell you and you’re not the boss of me” (rough paraphrase). I asked him if he wanted a relationship with this other person or if it was just playing and he said it was just playing and that he just didn’t feel comfortable sharing all the details with me. Today he told me he was “ending things” with the other person because he thought it was hurting me. I was surprised that there was anything “to end.” To me, just playing with someone doesn’t need to be ended, you just don’t make another playdate. Now I’m confused (you knew that was coming, didn’t you?). He doesn’t understand why I’m upset about this. He thinks that since he’s no longer with this other person, I have nothing to be upset about. I’ve tried to tell him that his being with someone else never was a problem for me, it was the lack of communication about it, which I told him from the outset was important to me. Does anyone else understand my point here? How can I communicate it to him so that he understands I’m not being a jealous girlfriend who can’t share? If you are willing to accept the fact that he is with another, then what he may or may not do is really none of your concern With the exception of whether or not there were sexual relations, why would you you wish to know?. As to his reluctance to tell you the graphic details, he maybe asking her to do something that would make you view him in a poor light or possibly something that the two of you do and he may be trying to spare your feelings because this other individual does it better

ranja -> RE: need help explaining myself to my boyfriend (10/21/2009 6:17:56 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Acer49 If you are willing to accept the fact that he is with another, then what he may or may not do is really none of your concern With the exception of whether or not there were sexual relations, why would you you wish to know?. As to his reluctance to tell you the graphic details, he maybe asking her to do something that would make you view him in a poor light or possibly something that the two of you do and he may be trying to spare your feelings because this other individual does it better I do not agree with any of that... she said from the start she wanted to know the details... if he is too embarrassed to tell them he should not have put himself into this stupid position... and maybe once is acceptable since he might not have known himself how he would struggle with telling her but indeed after that he should be straight about it... I do not know about the op... but i would want to know because such dirt actually turns me on... so by him not telling me, he claims all the fun and denies me mine, while i am ok with him having his... that is just not fair at all.... As for sparing any feelings, if he is really so worried about her he would not even go with another or do as she asked and tell her about it... and by not telling her another is better she can do nothing to improve... also he does not necessarily have to tell her another is better, just different. It seems to me he is just shy and embarrassed about it and making all the wrong decisions ETA To the op: i suppose the only way you can make him understand why you want to know the details is to be honest about why you want to know them... do you want to be embarrassed by them? do you want to be turned on? do you want to embarrass him and get turned on by that? or are you indeed simply trying to prove that you are not a jealous girl friend?... i would be a bit suspicious about that too if i were him...

DesFIP -> RE: need help explaining myself to my boyfriend (10/21/2009 7:00:17 AM)
It may not be embarassment. He may want to give the other woman her privacy. Beyond that, he told the op that she is not in charge of him, that he doesn't feel that he has to do what she wants. He has every right to draw that line, to say that once they decide not to be monogamous, then the op has no further right about his outside activities. Of course, the op has every right to say that this doesn't work for her and that without him willing to answer any and all questions, she is not willing to open the relationship. Sometimes you just aren't compatible. However the question has been brought up of why the op feels a need to be a voyeur after the fact, why does she need to be able to ask endless details. And it might be helpful if she could figure this out for herself for next time.

ranja -> RE: need help explaining myself to my boyfriend (10/21/2009 8:19:37 AM)
Des... i am bothered by the idea that he might want to 'give' the other woman her 'privacy'... i can only hope she knew that he was taken... so she should assume that what they do together might very well be shared... and if she did not even know that he was taken he has even less morality about him... it is very wrong to me that he should like to 'give' to the other woman but blatantly witholds after promising to 'give' to his steady girlfriend... Nobody ever has to do anything somebody else 'wants' it is always choice (not meaning to start a slave debate)... they seemed to have an agreement though and he changed the rules... i do not think he plays fair... and i prefer to think he is embarrassed to him being a cheat... It can be very difficult to say what intimate acts you have been engaging in with another and a lot of men are not great talkers in the first place... it is all too easy to Domly say that his partner has no right to know what he's been upto because she has given her permission for him to play away only to cover up the fact that he simply is out of his depth and too embarrassed to spill the beans in detail... as was agreed. i do indeed think it is important for him to know why she wants to know the details though... and if the detials do not turn her on... then maybe indeed there is no real case for her to know

lucylucy -> RE: need help explaining myself to my boyfriend (10/21/2009 10:23:07 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Acer49 If you are willing to accept the fact that he is with another, then what he may or may not do is really none of your concern With the exception of whether or not there were sexual relations, why would you you wish to know? It may not be any of my concern, but my boyfriend originally didn’t question that and agreed to share the details with me. That’s the part that bothers me. I don’t see how the legitimacy of my reasons for wanting to know would mitigate him changing the terms after the fact. quote: ORIGINAL: ranja I do not know about the op... but i would want to know because such dirt actually turns me on... so by him not telling me, he claims all the fun and denies me mine, while i am ok with him having his... that is just not fair at all.... It seems to me he is just shy and embarrassed about it and making all the wrong decisions ETA To the op: i suppose the only way you can make him understand why you want to know the details is to be honest about why you want to know them... do you want to be embarrassed by them? do you want to be turned on? do you want to embarrass him and get turned on by that? or are you indeed simply trying to prove that you are not a jealous girl friend?... i would be a bit suspicious about that too if i were him... Ranja, I think you are right about him being embarrassed and making all the wrong decisions. That was kind of the gist of our discussion about it yesterday. He’s never been with a partner who is ok with him being with someone else and doesn’t really know how to handle it. I think it would be easier for him to deal with a jealous girlfriend because he has experience with that. But he’s also feeling awkward about how this thing with the other person seems to be developing into a relationship and he’s not sure how to handle it. He thought he would wait until he knew exactly how to handle it to discuss it with me. Of course, I found out that things had progressed without him telling me. I do get why he thought it was best to wait. There are a couple reasons I want to know the details. One is that I get turned on, but the main reason is that I want him to be able to share with me great experiences he has, whether it’s an amazing hike or a great fuck. He loves sex and he loves women, and those are two of my favorite things about him. I love hearing him talk about sex, whether he’s telling me what he’s going to do to me or describing what he’s done with someone else. He says he wants to be able to share these things with me, but he’s not comfortable doing it yet. Again, I get this, and I realize now that us both wanting it doesn’t automatically make it happen. quote: ORIGINAL: ranja Des... i am bothered by the idea that he might want to 'give' the other woman her 'privacy'... i can only hope she knew that he was taken... so she should assume that what they do together might very well be shared... and if she did not even know that he was taken he has even less morality about him... Nobody ever has to do anything somebody else 'wants' it is always choice (not meaning to start a slave debate)... they seemed to have an agreement though and he changed the rules... i do not think he plays fair... and i prefer to think he is embarrassed to him being a cheat... The other woman does know about me. The playing fair part is what I’m upset about. That’s the part I keep going back to. Everything else is a detail to me, but changing the rules after the fact really bothers me and although I said above that I kind of get why he did that, I’m still bothered by it. I’m an information person—I always do better knowing than not knowing. Not knowing makes me anxious and brings out the worst of my character traits. I’ve told him this many times and he admitted last night when we talked that he didn’t actually believe me until he saw how anxious this whole thing made me.

antipode -> RE: need help explaining myself to my boyfriend (10/21/2009 1:20:14 PM)
quote: Does anyone else understand my point here? How can I communicate it to him so that he understands I’m not being a jealous girlfriend who can’t share? It is he who can't share, and this story about hurting you is BS. If you agree to share, to enjoy together, and he reneges, it is most likely that his sessions ended up being more intimately emotional than he bargained for. There are other scenarios possible, he couldn't get it up, whatever, but I think he is being "casual" beyond reality. Most importantly, however, he is someone you cannot negotiate with, and who can break his promises - and here is where it gets important - without being able to discuss his motives and reasons. It is OK to change your mind, in my book, but you can't change your mind, in a mature relationship, and not discuss the whys and wherefores. So I would put the sex and stuff aside, and sit him down and tell him you can't have a relationship with someone who can't treat you as an equal. Tell him you don't want a relationship in which both partners break their promises. Then see if he makes an honest attempt at fixing the problem he created. If he doesn't, boot him, because you will spend the rest of your days not always being the most important thing in his life.

lucylucy -> RE: need help explaining myself to my boyfriend (10/21/2009 1:32:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: antipode So I would put the sex and stuff aside, and sit him down and tell him you can't have a relationship with someone who can't treat you as an equal. Tell him you don't want a relationship in which both partners break their promises. Then see if he makes an honest attempt at fixing the problem he created. If he doesn't, boot him, because you will spend the rest of your days not always being the most important thing in his life. Wow. I really appreciate you cutting to the chase like this. Very helpful.

ranja -> RE: need help explaining myself to my boyfriend (10/21/2009 1:50:22 PM)
lucylucy: Ranja, I think you are right about him being embarrassed and making all the wrong decisions. That was kind of the gist of our discussion about it yesterday. He’s never been with a partner who is ok with him being with someone else and doesn’t really know how to handle it. I think it would be easier for him to deal with a jealous girlfriend because he has experience with that. I bet the would have dealt with the jealous gf the same... not giving any details at all, "it's none of your business, you're not my boss"... his previous experience with jealousy did not make him shy to try and have his fun with the other woman... Some people also experience a lack of jealousy as a lack of love and maybe they actually desire to inspire some jealousy... But he’s also feeling awkward about how this thing with the other person seems to be developing into a relationship and he’s not sure how to handle it. He thought he would wait until he knew exactly how to handle it to discuss it with me. Of course, I found out that things had progressed without him telling me. I do get why he thought it was best to wait. I find this so tricky about sharing... so often balances get disturbed... people want more or less... we watch porn instead There are a couple reasons I want to know the details. One is that I get turned on, but the main reason is that I want him to be able to share with me great experiences he has, whether it’s an amazing hike or a great fuck. He loves sex and he loves women, and those are two of my favorite things about him. I love hearing him talk about sex, whether he’s telling me what he’s going to do to me or describing what he’s done with someone else. He says he wants to be able to share these things with me, but he’s not comfortable doing it yet. Again, I get this, and I realize now that us both wanting it doesn’t automatically make it happen. Is there any reason why he has to do the physical deed with another woman right at this time? It seems to me that you both could have some fun going over old ground, ex girl friends should make for some juicy stories... has he allready told you all his experiences? Did he see you get turned on by these stories? Also, is there no possibility of you being with him and the other woman? The other woman does know about me. That's good The playing fair part is what I’m upset about. That’s the part I keep going back to. Everything else is a detail to me, but changing the rules after the fact really bothers me and although I said above that I kind of get why he did that, I’m still bothered by it. I would be too... it seems he spoilt the fun a bit for everybody I’m an information person—I always do better knowing than not knowing. Not knowing makes me anxious and brings out the worst of my character traits. I’ve told him this many times and he admitted last night when we talked that he didn’t actually believe me until he saw how anxious this whole thing made me. You will have to accept that you will never know everything though, and whatever he chooses to tell you... if he musters the guts... will be his version of events, not the reality of what actually transpired.

DesFIP -> RE: need help explaining myself to my boyfriend (10/21/2009 5:23:40 PM)
Ranja. if he wasn't smart enough to tell the other woman ahead of time that he was going to tell his girlfriend everything, then he may have found himself in a quandary when she said that she doesn't consent to that. Knowing that he has a girlfriend is one thing, knowing that he's going to give her all the details is something else. Now, he certainly should have said this beforehand, but to be fair, it's his first time and poly or open relationships, as I would classify this, can take a while to get used to. But he should not have gone back for a second time once he knew that he was between a rock and a hard place. If he's the dominant in the relationship (didn't check profile) he may have assumed this was his call to make when he discovered he couldn't satisfy both. However he has since learned that he can't handle this. But he isn't manning up to not having come straight back and said that he knew he promised to answer questions, but he doesn't feel he has the right to tell any details about the other woman. If he had come back and immediately said that he couldn't do this, the op would have been understandably upset, but they would have agreed to discuss this first in the future. Or he could have come back and said that he decided he could not share details beyond health concern. Instead he didn't step up to the plate in any way and is trying to get out of trouble without admitting to any wrong doing. And that's the act of a child, not an adult. As to the future, that's in the op's hands. But if they agree again to open the relationship these things must be addressed first and it might be helpful if the op, the other woman and the boyfriend sat down together and hashed all these questions out. Although it will lessen his pool of available playmates, it will save trouble in the future.

ranja -> RE: need help explaining myself to my boyfriend (10/22/2009 3:41:13 AM)
DesFIP: Ranja. if he wasn't smart enough to tell the other woman ahead of time that he was going to tell his girlfriend everything, then he may have found himself in a quandary when she said that she doesn't consent to that. Knowing that he has a girlfriend is one thing, knowing that he's going to give her all the details is something else. So he should ask permission from his ex-girlfriends aswell before telling any private details about them to his current girlfriend? sorry Des, but i just don't think things should be so tight... the guy has experiences and the girlfriend likes the stories... the other woman should expect there is a very great chance the gf might be told about their encounter, without him having to ask her permission to tell... if a person is so very private, then maybe just maybe they should not have intimate relations with guys that already have a steady partner Now, he certainly should have said this beforehand, but to be fair, it's his first time and poly or open relationships, as I would classify this, can take a while to get used to. As he has experience with jealousy and loves sex and women... i somewhat doubt that he has been monogamous before... i think he has been 'fooling around' for a bit really... But he should not have gone back for a second time once he knew that he was between a rock and a hard place. If he's the dominant in the relationship (didn't check profile) he may have assumed this was his call to make when he discovered he couldn't satisfy both. It sounds to me he just wants his cake and eat it... However he has since learned that he can't handle this. But he isn't manning up to not having come straight back and said that he knew he promised to answer questions, but he doesn't feel he has the right to tell any details about the other woman. If he had come back and immediately said that he couldn't do this, the op would have been understandably upset, but they would have agreed to discuss this first in the future. Or he could have come back and said that he decided he could not share details beyond health concern. I simply think he is selfish, he should have told his girlfriend, but now it is too late, he has spoilt all her fun and presented himself as someone who is not to be trusted... it is too late to spill the beans now really, he has totally ruined it... Instead he didn't step up to the plate in any way and is trying to get out of trouble without admitting to any wrong doing. And that's the act of a child, not an adult. indeed As to the future, that's in the op's hands. But if they agree again to open the relationship these things must be addressed first and it might be helpful if the op, the other woman and the boyfriend sat down together and hashed all these questions out. Although it will lessen his pool of available playmates, it will save trouble in the future. I think the other woman now has been dumped so there would be no need for a talk with her... unless the op decides to get her details that way and makes an appointment with the girl herself leaving the bf out of the equasion... and many women do go about it that way... not something i recommend btw He will most likely fool around somemore as he likes sex and women but next time he might not even ask his gf if it's alright as he has proved he thinks it is none of her business anyway and he might find the whole process of poly easier if she is oblivious... unless he gets turned on by jealousy, in which case he will continue to play her as he has done this time... if she lets him I think he has shown a lack of respect for his girlfriend and that is seriously not good in a new relationship... maybe they can fix it....

DesFIP -> RE: need help explaining myself to my boyfriend (10/22/2009 4:15:32 AM)
No disagreement that this isn't a man I'd be seeing again for a multitude of reasons. But I would not expect my partners to 'kiss and tell'. Nor do I ask my partner about his ex's techniques, or how he ranked her giving head. And if I met someone who went around telling those details, then I wouldn't play with them because I wouldn't want him to be telling these stories about me. But I do disagree that the other woman should have expected him to tell all and write it up for a national magazine. The unspoken expectations will get you every time. Well, look at us, same scenario and we have totally different expectations. Perfect example why you have to talk it all out, which means all of them together in cases such as this.

ranja -> RE: need help explaining myself to my boyfriend (10/22/2009 7:03:59 AM)
DesFIP No disagreement that this isn't a man I'd be seeing again for a multitude of reasons. But I would not expect my partners to 'kiss and tell'. Nor do I ask my partner about his ex's techniques, or how he ranked her giving head. i totally get it that it is not your thing... you also most likely would not have a sexual encounter with a taken man... and if your partner would like to tell you intimate stuff about previous experiences you might feel totally grossed out or insecure, so a wise man would not go there at all... others however do talk to other people about their experiences and not all are bound by secrecy like shrinks are... in my world it is totally acceptable for other people to talk about experiences they have had, there is no need to 'rank' anybody, that is just childish And if I met someone who went around telling those details, then I wouldn't play with them because I wouldn't want him to be telling these stories about me. to me it doesn't matter much, unless the guy starts spreading weird rumours about me but that would be slander and of course i would not like that, but if he turns his girlfriend on with a juicy recount of the hanky panky we've been upto, well good luck to them, i am all for turning people on really But I do disagree that the other woman should have expected him to tell all and write it up for a national magazine. ????????? are you losing the plot a bit here? The unspoken expectations will get you every time. Well, look at us, same scenario and we have totally different expectations. Perfect example why you have to talk it all out, which means all of them together in cases such as this. somethings just do not need to be talked to death, there is a good chance of spoiling the fun when you talk about some things too much. If a married guy would fancy me for a one night stand, and by some miracle MH would give His blessing for me to have a good time... and then the married man and his wife would want to have a conversation with me to discuss if the man would be allowed to tell the details to his wife after he is done boning me... weeellllll fuck off, that just totally spoils it... i would seriously wonder why on earth they need my permission for that... i would suspect that subjecting me to this ridiculous conversation to embarrass me was more their kink... and they would probably talk and laugh about my horrified expression when they confronted me with this stupid carry on... and i would just have lost all interest in having a good time with the man... not because he wants to tell the sexy stuff to his wife, but because 'they' need to ask me if that is ok with me... i mean that is just so totally embarrassing in such a totally wrong way, the only response to that would be: bye bye creeps. On the other hand if the guy would get me nicely turned on and then tell me i better be a good girl and not disappoint him 'cos he's gonna tell all the little details to his wife, about how he fucked me and how i liked it.... welll mmmm

IronBear -> RE: need help explaining myself to my boyfriend (10/22/2009 4:49:36 PM)
Fuck a duck! Just how convoluted and fucked up are we as a society. Bring back the old days where man sees woman. Man wants woman. Man grabs woman by hair and drags her off to castle. She obeys and has the run of castle. She disobeys and gets chained to the scullery. Woman's family or friends object. man takes fucking huge sword and fights to the death the family/friends. He wins she remains his property with no questions). He looses she is freed until the next time. Pretty bloody simple isn't it?

LookieNoNookie -> RE: need help explaining myself to my boyfriend (10/22/2009 10:19:52 PM)
I have absolutely no concept of how a female sub should act towards a Male Dom. This is so far beyond my scope....my perspective is just a smidge jaded..... But it does seem (to me) that you should be more circumspect. I would be (personally) more "flexible". quote: ORIGINAL: lucylucy My boyfriend wanted to play with someone else and asked me if I was ok with that. I said I was as long as he told me about it afterwards and answered my questions. He agreed to this. He played with the other person and then told me he didn’t actually want to tell me about it or answer my questions. I told him that I had problems with him changing the terms after the fact and his response was that there wasn’t much to tell. He refused to say much beyond that. A week later, he said he wanted to play with this other person again, and I reiterated that I was ok with that but that it was very important to me that he tell me about it. His response this time was more along the lines of “I don’t want to tell you and you’re not the boss of me” (rough paraphrase). I asked him if he wanted a relationship with this other person or if it was just playing and he said it was just playing and that he just didn’t feel comfortable sharing all the details with me. Today he told me he was “ending things” with the other person because he thought it was hurting me. I was surprised that there was anything “to end.” To me, just playing with someone doesn’t need to be ended, you just don’t make another playdate. Now I’m confused (you knew that was coming, didn’t you?). He doesn’t understand why I’m upset about this. He thinks that since he’s no longer with this other person, I have nothing to be upset about. I’ve tried to tell him that his being with someone else never was a problem for me, it was the lack of communication about it, which I told him from the outset was important to me. Does anyone else understand my point here? How can I communicate it to him so that he understands I’m not being a jealous girlfriend who can’t share?

LPslittleclip -> RE: need help explaining myself to my boyfriend (10/23/2009 6:29:38 AM)
he might need some pointers on how much you like to hear about his exploits and find ways to share where he is comfortable doing so. having a means of open communicating is essential for any relationship. most guys i grew up around don't know how to talk about emotions and need a few pointers. it may help to make a rutine for the 2 of you to relax and be comfortable and then begin to relate the event so it will be easier to do each time.

BeingChewsie -> RE: need help explaining myself to my boyfriend (10/23/2009 4:38:25 PM)
Fast reply: I'm going to lean towards Ron's reply and say he probably has no frame of reference for how this should go and any experiences with females in the past who didn't take to it so kindly may be hindering him from talking about it. I'd offer give a little space on the issue, how about you both try to give a little until everybody gets their little poly feet comfortably under them?..it can't hurt and it could do a world of good. Good luck.

dreamerdreaming -> RE: need help explaining myself to my boyfriend (10/23/2009 7:50:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lucylucy My boyfriend wanted to play with someone else and asked me if I was ok with that. I said I was as long as he told me about it afterwards and answered my questions. He agreed to this. He played with the other person and then told me he didn’t actually want to tell me about it or answer my questions. I told him that I had problems with him changing the terms after the fact and his response was that there wasn’t much to tell. He refused to say much beyond that. A week later, he said he wanted to play with this other person again, and I reiterated that I was ok with that but that it was very important to me that he tell me about it. His response this time was more along the lines of “I don’t want to tell you and you’re not the boss of me” (rough paraphrase). I asked him if he wanted a relationship with this other person or if it was just playing and he said it was just playing and that he just didn’t feel comfortable sharing all the details with me. Today he told me he was “ending things” with the other person because he thought it was hurting me. I was surprised that there was anything “to end.” To me, just playing with someone doesn’t need to be ended, you just don’t make another playdate. Now I’m confused (you knew that was coming, didn’t you?). He doesn’t understand why I’m upset about this. He thinks that since he’s no longer with this other person, I have nothing to be upset about. I’ve tried to tell him that his being with someone else never was a problem for me, it was the lack of communication about it, which I told him from the outset was important to me. Does anyone else understand my point here? How can I communicate it to him so that he understands I’m not being a jealous girlfriend who can’t share? These two things would be deal-breakers, for me. I'd run for the hills. 1. He broke his word. Whether you call it a bait-and-switch, or whatever: he decieved you. He may not have meant to, but he did. 2. He's not communicating properly with you. He's clamming up. He's not comfy talking with you. WHY? [8\|] And why are you putting up with it? [8\|] Who cares if he thinks you're a jealous girlfriend? What about what you think of him?

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