California appears poised to be first to ban power-guzzling big-screen TVs (Full Version)

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pahunkboy -> California appears poised to be first to ban power-guzzling big-screen TVs (10/15/2009 4:45:17 PM)

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-bigtvs14-2009oct14,0,4908205.story


--Hello.

I use a power use gadget to measure what plug in uses how much power.  Based on this measurement- I was able to pick and choose what is worth plugging in. 

I was surprised that my TV used the power the my fridge did.

So my question is this.

Can they build a TV which has quality that does not use as much power as they do now.

Measure the power for yourself- you might be surprised....




DesFIP -> RE: California appears poised to be first to ban power-guzzling big-screen TVs (10/15/2009 6:09:54 PM)

A lot of the energy use of tvs is that they don't fully shut off. The off button puts them into more of a hibernation mode than a true off. This is because people don't want to wait five minutes for it to warm up. If you use a surge protector with an on/off button you will get a true off but be prepared to wait for it when you want to watch.

And if you really want to talk about appliances that use huge amounts of energy, go look at what a hair dryer draws.




DarkSteven -> RE: California appears poised to be first to ban power-guzzling big-screen TVs (10/15/2009 6:37:55 PM)

Actually, the dryer is the big power hog, followed by the oven.

LCD screens shouldn't use much power.  The old CRT sets probably use a bunch...






ThatDamnedPanda -> RE: California appears poised to be first to ban power-guzzling big-screen TVs (10/15/2009 6:59:55 PM)

No, the newer technologies actually use more juice than the old cathode ray tubes. According to the California Energy Commission, CRT uses .23 watts per square inch, LCD uses 27, and plasma sucks .36 watts per square inch of screen area. Even more if the owner uses high-brightness settings. I've read that with some settings, a 50-inch plasma screen can use up to 700 watts of power. Those babies can really set the meter to spinnin'!

Christ, I just thought of something. If i wind up moving to California, will they allow my stereo system into the state? I use a bi-amp setup that draws over 1500 watts at peak. I'll probably have to smuggle my old Carvers in underneath a crate of potatoes or something.




DemonKia -> RE: California appears poised to be first to ban power-guzzling big-screen TVs (10/15/2009 7:22:09 PM)

Ha, ha, very funny Panda .. . . .

Um, since a significant chunk of the music industry is based here, I think the great nanny state of Cali will manage to let yer big honkin' speakers slide . . .. ..

Seriously, tho', I suspect that most of the electronic gadgets of our day-to-days are nowhere near as efficient as they could be; energy efficiency is rarely the paramount design parameter . . . . .




Sanity -> RE: California appears poised to be first to ban power-guzzling big-screen TVs (10/15/2009 9:04:26 PM)


They'd probably let you keep your stereo gear but I bet they'd confiscate the potatoes. They're more anal about bringing produce in than anything else...


quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

No, the newer technologies actually use more juice than the old cathode ray tubes. According to the California Energy Commission, CRT uses .23 watts per square inch, LCD uses 27, and plasma sucks .36 watts per square inch of screen area. Even more if the owner uses high-brightness settings. I've read that with some settings, a 50-inch plasma screen can use up to 700 watts of power. Those babies can really set the meter to spinnin'!

Christ, I just thought of something. If i wind up moving to California, will they allow my stereo system into the state? I use a bi-amp setup that draws over 1500 watts at peak. I'll probably have to smuggle my old Carvers in underneath a crate of potatoes or something.




WyldHrt -> RE: California appears poised to be first to ban power-guzzling big-screen TVs (10/15/2009 9:10:02 PM)

quote:

They'd probably let you keep your stereo gear but I bet they'd confiscate the potatoes. They're more anal about bringing produce in than anything else...

[sm=rofl.gif]SO true!




Termyn8or -> RE: California appears poised to be first to ban power-guzzling big-screen TVs (10/16/2009 7:25:31 AM)

FR

Plasma TVs are already under fire in Europe, which is seeking a total ban, mainly because of energy consumption. There are other factors, and this will most likely do for the TV industry what it did for flourescent lights. I remember back when you put in a light fixture and didn't have to touch it for ten years. Now I have to buy flourescent tubes by the case because it saves energy ! ? What ? What about the energy used to produce more tubes of inferior quality vs the cost of building fewer tubes of better quality (longevity) ?

All of these new TVs are junk. They will find their way to a landfill in a few short years. There is almost no component level troubleshooting, repair is usually accomplished on a board level basis. What we need is cheaper boards. When they sell the TV for $1,000 for example, how do they justify the fact that all the parts added up come to something like ten times that amount ?

Plus the design of these things defies effective troubleshooting, it is usually difficult even to determine which board is bad, then when you get the price of a new board the customer falls on the floor. Seriously, most shops will tell you to sit down before giving you the price. Add to that the fact that one board can and often does blow another when it fails, so at $300 per board, two of them are $600. Just the cost of parts are about twice what they are willing to pay.

Plasmas are a different animal than LCDs and DLPs. First of all the power supply is the most likely failure. So in plasma TVs there are about twelve of them. Why ? Who knows. I suspect that in pursuit of thinness they can't build just one power supply that will run the whole thing.

Plasmas and CRTs have one advantage, when you turn the brightness (picture or contrast) down they pull less juice. Not so with DLP and LCD, in fact the opposite is almost true. The latter two technologies work by blocking or misdirecting light that is always supplied at full brightness, which is not very efficient sounding - for good reason. Now the really flat LCDs are going to "zone backlighting" which uses an array of high brightness LEDs. This has the added benefit of enhancing the contrast ratio. But this can't be applied to projecton LCDs, or DLPs which are all projection because of the design.

No matter what, when you buy a new TV, expect about two years before a major repair bill, unlike the old days when they would run for ten years before they need service. While alot of CRT TVs can be repaired, many of these newer technologies can't, at least not cost effectively.

Better technology is available if they would choose to develop it - VFD. VFD is like the front panel display in the old VCRs. While it is a tube and has filaments, there is no high voltage, no deflection circuitry, no alot of things. Many have seen the old audio spectrum analyzers, most of which were based on VFD technology. All they need is more dots, and the three primary colors and it would work, and be the most efficient. I suspect they refuse to build them because they would be too reliable. You see every year it lasts beyond the warranty is a year they get no money from you. What would you do ?

Normally I am against government intervention, but these conditions have impelled me to make an exception. They are dumping, and raping the public with these things. It is ridiculous what they are getting away with. And remember, these things get on the boat and all the sudden they are worth ten times their cost. Built by slave labor's lowest bidder and sold as if it was gold plated.

My TV is only twenty years old, I have no need to replace it.

T




pahunkboy -> RE: California appears poised to be first to ban power-guzzling big-screen TVs (10/16/2009 7:56:12 AM)

how does this carry over to computer screens?




variation30 -> RE: California appears poised to be first to ban power-guzzling big-screen TVs (10/17/2009 12:24:43 AM)

california and their power issues never cease the crack me up.

first they "deregulate" power (it's in quotes because the government still regulated prices to the point that companies would sell power to other states).

and now they are having to regulate tv's (lol) to help make up for their idiocy.




DemonKia -> RE: California appears poised to be first to ban power-guzzling big-screen TVs (10/17/2009 9:05:32 AM)

Three words explain much of your post, Termy, & until we figure out how to build economies without this, we're stuck with it: built-in obsolescence . . . . .

As long as we need to employ tens of millions, hundreds of millions, billions of people everyday, at decent & increasing wages, we need to have industries that churn out mass quantities of crap products that break down quickly so that jobs can be maintained & grown . . . . .

I really don't see anyway around that, especially with 'durable goods' such as teevees . . . . If ya build a teevee that'll last for 20 years yer doin' many people out of jobs during that period of time; if teevees only last 5 years, say, then that's 4 times as many potential jobs & etc . . . . . . Teevee only lasts 2 years? That's 10 times as much employment potential . . . . . .

& this is especially so in the face of relentless productivity increases & factories that require fewer & fewer workers every year because of increasing productivity efficiencies . . . . . That trend, I suspect, really puts the pressure on built-in obsolescence to maintain the cash flow . . . . . .

(Note carefully, I'm not arguing in favor of built-in obsolescence, I'm explaining its connection to this thread . . . . . lol)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

Plasma TVs are already under fire in Europe...




variation30 -> RE: California appears poised to be first to ban power-guzzling big-screen TVs (10/17/2009 2:16:32 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DemonKia

Three words explain much of your post, Termy, & until we figure out how to build economies without this, we're stuck with it: built-in obsolescence . . . . .

As long as we need to employ tens of millions, hundreds of millions, billions of people everyday, at decent & increasing wages, we need to have industries that churn out mass quantities of crap products that break down quickly so that jobs can be maintained & grown . . . . .

I really don't see anyway around that, especially with 'durable goods' such as teevees . . . . If ya build a teevee that'll last for 20 years yer doin' many people out of jobs during that period of time; if teevees only last 5 years, say, then that's 4 times as many potential jobs & etc . . . . . . Teevee only lasts 2 years? That's 10 times as much employment potential . . . . . .

& this is especially so in the face of relentless productivity increases & factories that require fewer & fewer workers every year because of increasing productivity efficiencies . . . . . That trend, I suspect, really puts the pressure on built-in obsolescence to maintain the cash flow . . . . . .

(Note carefully, I'm not arguing in favor of built-in obsolescence, I'm explaining its connection to this thread . . . . . lol)


...lol.




pahunkboy -> RE: California appears poised to be first to ban power-guzzling big-screen TVs (10/17/2009 2:40:39 PM)

Curious note.  What is built better today then many years ago?

Bob Chapman says this stunt plays to the global carbon tax sceem.    Cap and trade is a fraud.  I was for it some years ago-- but I am convinced it is a scam.

The future they want smart meters to ...well-  maybe a hacker then could mess up your house that way.

Speaking of electric-  deregulation happens in PA 1-1-10.  Where rates will go up 42%.   Even after the Enron mess- the legislature still passed it!!

I guess too I dont get how people have money for an over 40 inch flat screen TV.  




thornhappy -> RE: California appears poised to be first to ban power-guzzling big-screen TVs (10/17/2009 11:27:25 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

No, the newer technologies actually use more juice than the old cathode ray tubes. According to the California Energy Commission, CRT uses .23 watts per square inch, LCD uses 27, and plasma sucks .36 watts per square inch of screen area. Even more if the owner uses high-brightness settings. I've read that with some settings, a 50-inch plasma screen can use up to 700 watts of power. Those babies can really set the meter to spinnin'!

Hi Panda--
There's a typo up there, LCD is 0.27 watts per square inch.

Have you seen the figures for Playstations and such?  I bet they'd make good space heaters!




ThatDamnedPanda -> RE: California appears poised to be first to ban power-guzzling big-screen TVs (10/17/2009 11:40:58 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: thornhappy

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

No, the newer technologies actually use more juice than the old cathode ray tubes. According to the California Energy Commission, CRT uses .23 watts per square inch, LCD uses 27, and plasma sucks .36 watts per square inch of screen area. Even more if the owner uses high-brightness settings. I've read that with some settings, a 50-inch plasma screen can use up to 700 watts of power. Those babies can really set the meter to spinnin'!

Hi Panda--
There's a typo up there, LCD is 0.27 watts per square inch.

Have you seen the figures for Playstations and such?  I bet they'd make good space heaters!



Yeah, thanks - I noticed that after it was too late to edit, and was kind of cringing that someone would shriek "Holy shit! Out that TV goes right now, straight out the fucking window!"




Termyn8or -> RE: California appears poised to be first to ban power-guzzling big-screen TVs (10/17/2009 11:54:49 PM)

FR

We wroght this. Here we go.

I am the best of the best, so now I am going to buil a TV. It costs two grand and is only a 24 inch. It is absolutely guarantted for twenty years. It can handle any new scanning or hi def schemes they could ever come out with because it uses electrostatic deflection, which is also far more efficient. New formats come out, you just buy a card for it, user replaceable. Nicely finished in pewter and ivory. This is the TV of all TVs. Seven expansion slots, can easily interface with any PC or mac, and has the appropriate inputs for all, what's more there are no scan convetors or line doublers, they display everything in it's native resolution. Contrast ratio is the best CRT technolgy can deliver, and with the added "sunscreen" is still bright enough to read by. If you use it alot, CRTs are sixty bucks and cost about the same to have changed and aligned. ALL chassis parts are warranted for twenty year. In heavy use, expect to replace the CRT in three years, lighter use they can las alot longer, es[pecially if you turn the brightness down. Compliant with Linux and Winows MCE.

Can scan up to 250 Khz horizontal, which will support 1080p, Extreme color depth due to the best of the best phosphors available. Everything is an option, you can get the European tuner block, the US tuner block, whatefer, and they can all coexist. It also can get internet if you connect the network cable. Wireless is not included, but is available.

And remeber that twenty year warrany. How many do you want ?

Come on now, people don't even stay in a house for twenty years these days.

T




Acer49 -> RE: California appears poised to be first to ban power-guzzling big-screen TVs (10/18/2009 4:02:13 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-bigtvs14-2009oct14,0,4908205.story


--Hello.

I use a power use gadget to measure what plug in uses how much power.  Based on this measurement- I was able to pick and choose what is worth plugging in. 

I was surprised that my TV used the power the my fridge did.

So my question is this.

Can they build a TV which has quality that does not use as much power as they do now.

Measure the power for yourself- you might be surprised....



Now why would CA do this? The client pays the electric bill along with the taxes associated with that bill? the more kw's used the more state revenue. I know I am tired, but what am I missing?




Sanity -> RE: California appears poised to be first to ban power-guzzling big-screen TVs (10/18/2009 7:51:53 AM)


Basically its because Californians won't let the power industry build any new power plants that would significantly add to the power grid, and their power grid is severely strained as things are.

Its not the only reason, but its the major one.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Acer49
Now why would CA do this? The client pays the electric bill along with the taxes associated with that bill? the more kw's used the more state revenue. I know I am tired, but what am I missing?




pahunkboy -> RE: California appears poised to be first to ban power-guzzling big-screen TVs (10/18/2009 12:06:57 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Acer49


quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-bigtvs14-2009oct14,0,4908205.story


--Hello.

I use a power use gadget to measure what plug in uses how much power.  Based on this measurement- I was able to pick and choose what is worth plugging in. 

I was surprised that my TV used the power the my fridge did.

So my question is this.

Can they build a TV which has quality that does not use as much power as they do now.

Measure the power for yourself- you might be surprised....



Now why would CA do this? The client pays the electric bill along with the taxes associated with that bill? the more kw's used the more state revenue. I know I am tired, but what am I missing?


This is incremental ism
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ll0cvUfcBw   This is the video where the PDF is posted in the side bar.   The "treaty" is 181 pages and even compared to typical legislation- the verbiage is a mind trip!

Page 135  I see global taxes.  Airfares,  boat trips, finance 2%.    2%!!???

Reads as follows:

Alternative 1:
An international adaptation levy on airfares, except on journeys originating from or destined for LDCs.
Alternative 2:
An international adaptation levy on airfares, except on journeys originating from LDCs and SIDS.
Alternative 3:
A share of the proceeds from measures to limit or reduce emissions from international aviation and
maritime transport.
Option 6
Alternative 1:
A share of the proceeds, [an appropriate level to be determined by the COP] [2][3–5] per cent on the
CDM and extend the share of the proceeds of [2] [4] [8] [10] [12] per cent on joint implementation and
emissions trading and extend share of poceeds to new sectoral market mechanisms, extended to other
carbon market transactions and other compliance-linked carbon market mechanisms.6
Alternative 2:
A share of the proceeds of [2][3–5] per cent on CDM and [2][4][8][10] [12] per cent on [joint
implementation and emissions trading][market-based mechanisms under the Kyoto Protocol].
Option 7
A [global] levy of 2 per cent on international financial market [monetary] transactions to Annex I Parties.


Several lawyers could read the text and not agree on it being clear or even a benefit.    LMAO!  Typos on page  135.  "poceeds".

Anyhow-  a global carbon tax is the goal of the elite.   It has little to do with pollution- it is a way of extracting money of of people to fund world government
.




pahunkboy -> RE: California appears poised to be first to ban power-guzzling big-screen TVs (10/25/2009 11:28:35 AM)

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/a220bc14-c035-11de-aed2-00144feab49a.html?nclick_check=1

Chinese consumers opt for larger TVs than American counterparts/snip




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