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ftmyersartist -> Question (9/14/2009 11:55:36 AM)

This may have been answered before but I have a question.

Is it me or does the BDSM community seem very willing and almost eager to seperate out parts of itself as "Them". By this I mean I have noticed that those who view themselves as slaves tend to think of themself as supperior to submissives. Submissives can look down on Baby Girls or switches or bottoms. . .dominants can look down on tops or Daddys. . . Masters can look down on dominants or gorean masters. . .etc ect.

I mean it just seems at times that people are looking for someone else they can make into the "Them". Shouldn't the lifestyle community be more about finding what we have in common rather then concentrating on what our differences are?




LaTigresse -> RE: Question (9/14/2009 11:58:13 AM)

There is no lifestyle happy little community. We don't all get together around a campfire and sing kumbaya while roasting marshmallows.

We are human beings, individuals.........and we act like it. For better and, all too often, much worse.



subtlebutterfly -> RE: Question (9/14/2009 12:16:17 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

There is no lifestyle happy little community. We don't all get together around a campfire and sing kumbaya while roasting marshmallows.

We are human beings, individuals.........and we act like it. For better and, all too often, much worse.



omgomgomg!!!!!! I was singing kumbaya last week!!!! actually..I had never heard the song before but oi now I have[:D][:D][:D][:D]
..but it wasn't around a campfire..it woulda been nice tho!



Sunnyfey -> RE: Question (9/14/2009 12:40:47 PM)

Sorry as a submissive I don't actively look down on other s-types. I look down on some individuals yes.

As a Dom, I dont look down on other D-types. But I may look down on individuals.

I call it as I see it, if you an asshole Dom, then I'll look down on you for being an asshole. I don't care if your a D-type.
If you're a spoiled bitch, I'll look down on you for being a spoiled bitch, not for being an s-type.



aldompdx -> RE: Question (9/14/2009 12:44:38 PM)

The entire HUMAN community should focus on commonality!

It is human nature to idealize some goal as a destination resulting in fulfillment. Their ego regards those further from their goal as inferior. Many people idealize extremes, and belittle those whom they view as less extreme.

By their very nature -- deluded by their own ego idealization -- an extremist is a separatist. Consider the present and historic condition of Southern politics. Some people are so opposed to (afraid of) a 1/2 African president, that they keep their child home from school to prevent exposure to diversity, intelligence, and world integration. "Deliberate ignorance and positive knowledge are equally culpable." United States v. Jewell, 532 F.2d 697, 700 (9th Cir.)



Sunnyfey -> RE: Question (9/14/2009 12:55:31 PM)

Thats a sweet idea aldompdx........wont ever happen though.

Not to be a wet blanket or anything, there will always be war mongers, there will always be fundamentalist trying to squash new ideas, and there will always be hate.
sadly, something we have to deal with.



lovingpet -> RE: Question (9/14/2009 1:05:45 PM)

I agree with the sentiment, even if I know it is not really all that realistic that it is ever going to be reality. I can only do my part to open myself to diversity and worldviews. I cannot change how another chooses to view me or how others determine to infight with each other. It is a choice each individual must make. Even within that, I know that there may very well be good reason for choosing to not embrace, even if I personally do not understand it. I am sure I have my areas where I am closed in my beliefs and opinions. Diversity cannot be celebrated without accepting all the consequences of being who and what we are.

lovingpet



Sunnyfey -> RE: Question (9/14/2009 1:07:17 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: lovingpet

I agree with the sentiment, even if I know it is not really all that realistic that it is ever going to be reality. I can only do my part to open myself to diversity and worldviews. I cannot change how another chooses to view me or how others determine to infight with each other. It is a choice each individual must make. Even within that, I know that there may very well be good reason for choosing to not embrace, even if I personally do not understand it. I am sure I have my areas where I am closed in my beliefs and opinions. Diversity cannot be celebrated without accepting all the consequences of being who and what we are.

lovingpet


20 points [:)]



GoddessImaginos -> RE: Question (9/14/2009 1:11:36 PM)

Personally, I think Wwe should ALL stick "We're The People Your Mother Warned You About" on Oour cars, go to Hooters for hot wings and drinks and be done with it.



daintydimples -> RE: Question (9/14/2009 1:12:54 PM)

We may not be a community, we damn sure are a subculture. We used to be a subculture that nurtured the neophyte and at least attempted to be accepting of all.  We've morphed into a subculture that is leery of the new person and who has spent so much time defining who we are as individuals that we have in many ways become separatists. Hierarchies abound. But perhaps it is no big surprise that in our particular subculture many of us vie for dominance? The very act of saying, "I'm slave, therefore I am better than you, a mere sub," is in itself a power play.

Despite these changes if you look closely enough, you will find leaders who have emerged who do not buy into all this "a slave is better than a sub" BS.

Yes, in many ways as a subculture we are fragmented, I agree. But look at what all we're dealing with. Much of BDSM gets to the core of who you are as a person. The real you, the inner you. That is a path for the risk takers only.







GoddessImaginos -> RE: Question (9/14/2009 1:15:50 PM)

I wonder sometimes, how far have Wwe really come from a bunch of semi-upright monkeys chucking rocks at the other monkeys for drinking from Oour waterhole..



lovingpet -> RE: Question (9/14/2009 1:16:08 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sunnyfey

quote:

ORIGINAL: lovingpet

I agree with the sentiment, even if I know it is not really all that realistic that it is ever going to be reality. I can only do my part to open myself to diversity and worldviews. I cannot change how another chooses to view me or how others determine to infight with each other. It is a choice each individual must make. Even within that, I know that there may very well be good reason for choosing to not embrace, even if I personally do not understand it. I am sure I have my areas where I am closed in my beliefs and opinions. Diversity cannot be celebrated without accepting all the consequences of being who and what we are.

lovingpet


20 points [:)]



Yay!!!! I got my very first points!




Acer49 -> RE: Question (9/14/2009 1:21:52 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ftmyersartist

This may have been answered before but I have a question.

Is it me or does the BDSM community seem very willing and almost eager to seperate out parts of itself as "Them". By this I mean I have noticed that those who view themselves as slaves tend to think of themself as supperior to submissives. Submissives can look down on Baby Girls or switches or bottoms. . .dominants can look down on tops or Daddys. . . Masters can look down on dominants or gorean masters. . .etc ect.

I mean it just seems at times that people are looking for someone else they can make into the "Them". Shouldn't the lifestyle community be more about finding what we have in common rather then concentrating on what our differences are?



Yes, the individuals in this lifestlye would benefit more if they focued on what common issues there are instead concerning themselves all the labels and whether one is better than another. Until that times comes, I come in here with an open mind I listen, take what I need and leave the rest



sweetsub1957 -> RE: Question (9/14/2009 1:22:03 PM)

It would be nice if bdsm'ers weren't so judgmental, but LaTigresse is right when She says "There is no lifestyle happy little community."  We are all people, who just happen to be D-types or s-types, and it seems a lot of people just have to see the world as an "us" or "them" place or else they're not happy.

As for me, I don't like assholes, spoiled brats, or any other negative type of person, regardless of whether they're a D-type, s-type, kink or vanilla.  I just try to stay away from negative people, no matter who or what they are.



SummerMagpie -> RE: Question (9/14/2009 1:31:56 PM)

This reminds me very strongly of... well, the entire rest of the world. A while back someone drew a flowchart called the "Geek Hierarchy," and someone else made "the Hierarchy of the Internet." These were funny not because one group of people actually is better than another one, but because the social flow of "us/them" actually did follow those patterns. It's funny because it's true, and in my mind it all boils down to the same sort of rivalry you had between high school football teams. Some people in each "us/them" take it very seriously, some don't believe in it at all, some are just kind of "eh," and some participate as a social bonding exercise because... well, people do that. Human sociality in general seems to enjoy to have both something to follow (common interest) and something to spurn (common disinterest).

Most of the time I don't pay much attention, but I do agree that it can be aggravating: sometimes very abruptly, like suddenly stepping barefoot on a sharp rock on a nice smooth patio. I think that any one individual, with work, can be accepted into any group (the question being whether or not you actually want to), but that the "us/them" grouping pattern is never going to go away, and in many cases you will be accepted not as a member of the other group, but as an exception, a grandfather clause, or the center spot in the Venn Diagram: as the girl who hangs out with the gang in the treehouse because she's beaten up all the other boys, so they play with her and "forget" she's a girl; or the man (and this happened in some of my classes) who's included on conversations, conversations that are then allowed to wander into "women only" topics, because we've "forgotten" he's male! The little boys aren't going to stop calling girls "icky" and they're not going to let just any girl into the clubhouse any more than my ceramics classmates and I were going to talk about childbirth and bikini waxing with every adult straight male we came across. An exception was made for someone who had been accepted into the "safe" zone of our "us/them."

Now, none of this means that people have to be jerks about it, or even "merely" rude, which may be what you're actually getting at.



LaTigresse -> RE: Question (9/14/2009 1:41:13 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessImaginos

Personally, I think Wwe should ALL stick "We're The People Your Mother Warned You About" on Oour cars, go to Hooters for hot wings and drinks and be done with it.


Well I don't allow stickers on my car but I would put a sign in the window and go to Hooters for hot wings and martinis.......if Hooters has martinis......



Prinsexx -> RE: Question (9/14/2009 2:25:45 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ftmyersartist

This may have been answered before but I have a question.

Is it me or does the BDSM community seem very willing and almost eager to seperate out parts of itself as "Them". By this I mean I have noticed that those who view themselves as slaves tend to think of themself as supperior to submissives. Submissives can look down on Baby Girls or switches or bottoms. . .dominants can look down on tops or Daddys. . . Masters can look down on dominants or gorean masters. . .etc ect.

I mean it just seems at times that people are looking for someone else they can make into the "Them". Shouldn't the lifestyle community be more about finding what we have in common rather then concentrating on what our differences are?



I've had it with the concept of bdsm community. As if a 'community' had a lifestyle all of its own.
It has the same degree of hive mind as any other community....



Arpig -> RE: Question (9/14/2009 2:36:55 PM)

Why does it surprise you at all? People are tribal in nature, we like to group ourselves into identifiable groups and subgroups. And we like to think our own particular group/subgroup is better than the others, its just human nature. To expect anything different is simple self delusion. Hell we can't even agree just what exactly all the labels we use actually mean.

As to the BDSM community, well its imaginary, never did exist to begin with. What you mistake for a community is a bunch of people who happen to share a taste for a particular flavour of kinky sex...and even then its not so much a specific flavour, but a range of flavours, kind of like chocolate....there's ten thousand different varieties of chocolate...they all have something in common, they all taste somewhat similar, but they all taste different as well. That's how it is with BDSM, each of us has our own shopping list of likes and dislikes, the odds of finding somebody with exactly same list as you do are pretty friggin slim.



lally2 -> RE: Question (9/14/2009 2:47:38 PM)

i sometimes feel that its just a lack of understanding that separates.  i remember a really heated discussion about 'no limits slaves' once, it got really ugly in places (which was kinda fun too [:D]) and recently another one on TPE.

misunderstanding fuels misunderstanding.

i was the only s'type not sitting on furniture at a club last weekend, i spent the evening kneeling or sitting on the ground near my Master.  a guy walked up and asked me if i was comfortable down there on the floor.  it didnt make me self concious but it did for a moment highlight the fact that i was the only s'type on the floor and that our protocol had attracted atleast one comment.

there was no intention to separate ourselves from the overall atmosphere going on there and i dont believe we did but it was odd that whilst there were people enjoying all different levels of BDSM play, public and private, my sitting on the floor warranted any sort of comment atall.

im just using that as an example of something being highlighted as different in a world that is full of differences and individual choices.  its kinda ironic.

you can be as kinky as hell, but the moment you start expressing some level of serious committment to Ms youre picked out as having some sort of superiority complex.  its crazy crap in my view.




kallisto -> RE: Question (9/14/2009 3:03:19 PM)

I don't think it's a "BDSM community" thing at all. It's human nature. We simply have found another "label" use (D/s, M/s, switch, etc.). People believing they are better than someone else has been going on for ions. Just depends on what "community" you are in as to what label of person is higher on the totem pole.



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