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RE: Speech protocol - 9/14/2009 2:25:12 PM

Kalista07

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Acer49
I think you would be best served by asking some of your fellow submissives as to why it is something that most do not desire.

Sunny...*sigh* Your score here is definitely falling by the minute you know... Because first of all you are not 'true' because you would enjoy engaging in this type of activity...and NOW you have failed to heed this recommendation....tsk...tsk...tsk....tsk..... At any rate...as one un true to another...i must tell you why this is something that i do not desire...........uhm.........damn.....i don't know....because...i do....crap!! i'm a failure!!!!!!!!ARGH!!!!!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Acer49
With all due respect, you have been socially interacting with pepole for almost 20 years, I am pretty confident you are quite capable of choosing your own friends. There is no rule that says your dominant is required to like or approve of your friends. He should trust and respect you and your adult decisions

Acer, i'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and act as if you didn't mean to come off as condescending and judgemental as you have (not once but twice) to sunny....But, perhpas you missed the part that she just recently moved to be with Him...Having done that within the last 2 years myself... i can tell You that is not only very overwhelming, but it can suck ass to try and meet people..So, You take the help were You can get it..And You call it a grateful...at least i do.

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Post #: 41

RE: Speech protocol - 9/14/2009 2:44:38 PM

afterforever

Posts: 315
Joined: 6/12/2008
From: Belfast, NI
Status: offline

Secret codes are awesome cool.
However I would need an extra part to this code, to tell me to stop looking like an idiot as I count on my fingers and stare into space, trying to work out the original code.

(in reply to Kalista07)

Post #: 42

RE: Speech protocol - 9/14/2009 2:53:06 PM

Sunnyfey

Posts: 1436
Joined: 9/21/2007
From: OK
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I'm not sure what the problem is Acer,

your vehement desire to refute my Masters credibility, leaves me wondering why you A) have a distaste for Him, or myself or B) Our version of TPE or C) dis-like the IDEA of TPE and or micromanagement....

I was asking everyones opinion about the system he set up, I wasn't asking about your pet opinion on why micromanagement is a bad, bad, wrong thing. And where did you get the idea MOST submissives dont care for micromanagement?

What is micromanagement? He likes to control my speech, its a kink we share. He also likes to control my orgasams. Is that micromanagement also? Is punishing me because I did not do my chores micromanagement? I mean after all, I'm a grown woman, I should do my chores like a 23 year old and not have my sexual activity controled by anyone but myself right? Thats what big girls do...

OR maybe this is all a "one true wayism" conversation and I missed it again.

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Post #: 43

RE: Speech protocol - 9/14/2009 3:05:24 PM

windchymes

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Joined: 4/18/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sunnyfey

I perfer hand gestures, it's something visual, and no one else is going to wonder if we're playing a secret game of bingo or not

Now see, this is just what I was going to suggest.....you could get a whole dialogue going like the pitcher and catcher in a game of baseball, trying to agree on what kind of pitch is coming up next. You know, like nose-ear-nose-ear-crotch-butt-chin-chin, and so on, back and forth.

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Post #: 44

RE: Speech protocol - 9/14/2009 3:10:28 PM

DemonKia

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From: Chico, Nor-Cali
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A good one for 'need a drink' is to flick the index finger up & down the front of the throat . . . . . .

Some work should yield up personally salient gestures that intuitively help to prompt recall of what is intended, for a whole range of social situations . . . . .

ETA: [comma insert]

< Message edited by DemonKia -- 9/14/2009 3:11:43 PM >

(in reply to windchymes)

Post #: 45

RE: Speech protocol - 9/14/2009 3:13:38 PM

pyroaquatic

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Joined: 12/4/2006
From: Pyroaquatica
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I learned some ASL the other day.

American Sign Language.

:D It works awesome in loud places like concerts, or clubs.

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As your desire is, so is your will.
As your will is, so is your deed.
As your deed is, so is your destiny.
-Brihadaranyaka Upanishad IV.4.5

(in reply to DemonKia)

Post #: 46

RE: Speech protocol - 9/14/2009 3:14:25 PM

Sunnyfey

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Joined: 9/21/2007
From: OK
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quote:

ORIGINAL: windchymes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sunnyfey

I perfer hand gestures, it's something visual, and no one else is going to wonder if we're playing a secret game of bingo or not

Now see, this is just what I was going to suggest.....you could get a whole dialogue going like the pitcher and catcher in a game of baseball, trying to agree on what kind of pitch is coming up next. You know, like nose-ear-nose-ear-crotch-butt-chin-chin, and so on, back and forth.

The visuals you just gave me.........

will have me cracking up for hours.

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Post #: 47

RE: Speech protocol - 9/14/2009 5:44:08 PM

peppermint

Posts: 5175
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From: Montana
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I'd flunk the test. No way could I remember all that.

(in reply to Sunnyfey)

Post #: 48

RE: Speech protocol - 9/14/2009 6:10:46 PM

GraciousLady

Posts: 529
Joined: 7/7/2009
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Although I use very simple methods so my subs don't get confused I realize the OP's Master is just presenting his slave with proper methods of control. she has to adhere to these rules and it helps her focus on her constant desire to please him. I say her Master is a very caring one to give her the chance to follow this ritual. She can really shine for him if she does well.

(in reply to sweetsub1957)

Post #: 49

RE: Speech protocol - 9/14/2009 8:41:20 PM

littlewonder

Posts: 15659
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I'd completely forget. I have a hard enough time remembering a lot of stuff as it is so I prefer him to just tell me to be quiet or to watch my mouth.

Thankfully I'm pretty good at figuring out public etiquette all on my own..time and place for everything.

(in reply to sweetsub1957)

Post #: 50

RE: Speech protocol - 9/14/2009 10:09:23 PM

GreedyTop

Posts: 52100
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Savannah, GA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: windchymes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sunnyfey

I perfer hand gestures, it's something visual, and no one else is going to wonder if we're playing a secret game of bingo or not

Now see, this is just what I was going to suggest.....you could get a whole dialogue going like the pitcher and catcher in a game of baseball, trying to agree on what kind of pitch is coming up next. You know, like nose-ear-nose-ear-crotch-butt-chin-chin, and so on, back and forth.

Just remember to set down your drink, first....

_____________________________

polysnortatious
Supreme Goddess of Snark
CHARTER MEMBER: Lance's Fag Hags!
Waiting for my madman in a Blue Box.

(in reply to windchymes)

Post #: 51

RE: Speech protocol - 9/15/2009 6:11:02 AM

CallaFirestormBW

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Joined: 6/29/2008
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Actually, I think it's kinda cool, in a "control" sort of way. It requires the submissive party to -think- and to remain aware of the Keeper, so as to be open to input regarding her behavior (which can be a real challenge when in public or deeply enmeshed in a conversation... I know it is for me, but then again, I talk a lot!). It required some planning and coordination on the dominant's part, requires both parties to pay attention, to remember, and to learn--and also provides some very private insight into how one -sees- another, and, conversely, how one is -seen- by others (because sometimes, we just don't see ourselves the way other people see us). ... plus it's "secret"... all "hush-hush" and mysterious... AND it's protocol oriented, which trips my trigger -every- time.

I think that if both parties involved are enjoying the heck out of it, then it's pretty neat.

Dame Calla

< Message edited by CallaFirestormBW -- 9/15/2009 6:14:48 AM >

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Said to me recently: "Look, I know you're the "voice of reason"... but dammit, I LIKE being unreasonable!!!!"

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Post #: 52

RE: Speech protocol - 9/15/2009 5:05:59 PM

MissCake

Posts: 149
Joined: 9/18/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: pyroaquatic

I learned some ASL the other day.

American Sign Language.

:D It works awesome in loud places like concerts, or clubs.

I am getting over a bad case of tonsillitis and Frenchy has had to remember some of the simple signs I taught him. He does know how to get me a drink and food. He understands yes, no, OK, good, bad and a couple others.

(in reply to pyroaquatic)

Post #: 53

RE: Speech protocol - 9/15/2009 7:00:50 PM

thishereboi

Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DemonKia

A good one for 'need a drink' is to flick the index finger up & down the front of the throat . . . . . .

Some work should yield up personally salient gestures that intuitively help to prompt recall of what is intended, for a whole range of social situations . . . . .

ETA: [comma insert]

Yes, but if I am paying attention, your next drink will have been ordered before you realize you need it.

Edited to add: Oh my god, she turned me pink.

< Message edited by thishereboi -- 9/15/2009 7:02:07 PM >

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Post #: 54

RE: Speech protocol - 9/15/2009 7:39:21 PM

DemonKia

Posts: 5521
Joined: 10/13/2007
From: Chico, Nor-Cali
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lol

Sorry 'bout that color-tainting thing, thishereboi . . . . .

Yep, I understand your point, & that's the ultimate goal, for the s-type to know the D/M so well that they can anticipate needs & desires accurately . . .. . But in the beginning (such as is true of Nihilus & Sunnyfey), something else might be useful while that learning curve is being traversed . . . ..

(in reply to thishereboi)

Post #: 55

RE: Speech protocol - 9/15/2009 8:14:37 PM

kyraofMists

Posts: 3292
Joined: 7/29/2005
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I haven't read all the posts in this thread...

I love speech restrictions/protocols. I also love using discrete hand signals. I am an introvert and not very vocal so he has not seen a need to restrict my speach with others. However, we do have a few hand signals that we use with him in order to speak. They are discrete and not something really noticed by others.

In regards to behavior modification and learning a new system, it really helps to start small. Some may view modifying speech as one thing, but as you can see it can be broken down into several different areas, talking to the wrong person, talking too loud (or soft), talking too much, interrupting and then you also have the language that is actually used. Certain language can be dramatic and sometimes inflammatory, using absolutes like always or never, and I am sure people can think of even more aspects that could be restricted or changed.

Pick the one that is most important and start there and how you decide importance is really up to you or up to your master. Once that becomes more natural it is easier to introduce others and make them a natural part of your interaction together.

Just a few thoughts...

Knight's Kyra

_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

(in reply to Sunnyfey)

Post #: 56

RE: Speech protocol - 9/15/2009 8:18:40 PM

kyraofMists

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Joined: 7/29/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi
Yes, but if I am paying attention, your next drink will have been ordered before you realize you need it.

That might work for many dominants or masters, but it wouldn't work in our house. It would be considered making an assumption and that isn't a smart thing to do with him.

If he tells us to keep him supplied with a certain beverage for the evening then we bring him a new one when we see that he is almost done with his current one. If we are not given that instruction then we do not bring him a new drink without either him telling us to or us asking if he wants it. We have a hand signal that indicates he wants a drink.

Knight's Kyra

_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

(in reply to thishereboi)

Post #: 57

RE: Speech protocol - 9/15/2009 10:41:13 PM

MaamJay

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Joined: 9/2/2005
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I'm nowhere near as negative about it as the majority of posters here. I don't mind codes when used for a purpose, and I don't think this is terribly complicated. Maybe I just come from a generation of kids who thought secret codes were cool ... except that was before cool meant anything other than not very warm! Gosh, what did we say back then? It was way before wicked ... maybe we just said it was FUN! But I digress ...

Sunny and NZ ... if this is fun for you two, then go right ahead and give it a try. If it doesn't end up working (maybe it's too hard to hear which letter and number has been said for eg) ... well, no pain no gain. It can be changed or even abandoned, no big deal. Master's code for checking whether My Domme side was coming out inappropriately were statements like "I think your capitals are showing pet" or "Is that a top hat I see?" and we used them as a non-threatening way for Him to ask me to check myself and see if my motives were right for what i was saying/doing. Worked wonderfully as i didn't react defensively and He didn't get pissed off! We also had code gestures and facial expressions to stop my innate habit of rocking to and fro, and they worked brilliantly too. He didn't want to embarrass me in front of vanillas by telling me not to rock but He really didn't want to stop me from doing it. Given i can be a bit too outgoing and talkative sometimes i probably should suggest the V and Y commands to Him, He might like to use them too! (or are they patented

?)

Maam Jay aka violet[A]

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Life is a song ... and I love singing it! (By me!)

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Post #: 58

RE: Speech protocol - 9/15/2009 11:27:56 PM

MichaelinKaysvil

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Joined: 7/26/2009
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Very interesting idea, I like the fact that you have to be focused on multiple tasks, ie talking and also aware that yours might sign you.

The control and yummy aspects are great. I used a similar (much more limited) process and frankly the, "extra control power" has me running crank out excell and make a matrix. (does 104 different codes for oral sex mean Im twisted?)

Congrats on having a wonderful time and Im sure giving your master LOTS of pleasure.

p.s some of the snarky comments may have missed the fact that her dom, took alot of time working on this. That means he is enjoying the rewards of his labor.

Let me put it this way, submissive doing what she is told = good. Having a way to modify what the submissive does on the fly = priceless. (for everything else theres MASTER code)

(in reply to MaamJay)

Post #: 59

RE: Speech protocol - 9/16/2009 5:44:48 AM

porcelaine

Posts: 5020
Joined: 7/24/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sunnyfey

" It should go with out saying that when we are out in public I expect you to display respectful etiquette. I don't necessarily want you to change your normal social style (if extroverted or otherwise), but I want the focus to be on making yourself a proper reflection of me. I will instill a following set of code words so that yu can know if I expect you to adjust your social mannerisms at all:

X (number) Do not engage a certain someone in any conversation. You can determine the person I'm refferring to by counting the people clockwise from my left if we're at an enclosed table etc. If for some reason I need to count from your right for simplicity I will use XB(number)

V(number)(number) I want you to adjut your volume of your voice. The first number is what I rate your volume to be, (1-10) and the seond number is where I want your volume to be. This will give you a basic idea on how much adjustment I want

Y(number)(number) I want you to yeild in conversation to others talking, and or reduce how much you are engageing in conversation, How much I think your are doing it and how much I want you to do it will be the same style as V."

So what do you all think?

i believe the first says it all. it is the only rule that is necessary because the submissive is supposed to see herself through his eyes at all times. that is what makes her conscious of the most discriminating things that others might miss. it isn't the protocol but the fact that he desires or would not be pleased with a specific action. this is a self correcting aspect that vaults someone further or will become their nemesis. keeping master at the forefront of ones thinking is helpful when new guidelines are being presented.

as for speech training, that depends on your learning style. your natural style will be the way you process new information. whatever area/s you're strongest in should be taken into account for this. it will make the learning curve bend in your favor. most people that are talkative generally benefit from speech restrictions through the development of listening skills. when one is excessively talking a lot can be missed. placing controls upon this makes the person more alert and will cultivate better conversational skills.

discovering why the person is talkative is important. is she naturally gregarious? do her thoughts race one million miles per minute? etc. before restrictions are placed it would be helpful to see how it can be utilized in a positive fashion. perhaps through other outlets that allow self expression that aren't necessarily verbally oriented. or in a verbal capacity that is productive (speaking, teaching, etc) rather than casual chit chat.

in regard to pitch, children are usually given examples of what is appropriate in and outdoors. i think if the situation is too complicated one devotes too much time trying to pinpoint nuances when the best relations have a flow that is beautiful to watch. rather than start with several i would provide concrete examples. meaning no more than one or two. this is how you should sound while inside. this level is permitted when we're outdoors in an environment that is emotionally charged.

once these have been mastered more complex options can be added on for specific situations. i think if you limit the options the consistency will develop on its own. point out examples of what you're seeking and make note of the bad as well. sometimes people can't see/hear themselves until they their behavior on someone else.

conversations that are allowed or need to end at a certain time takes practice to perfect. less is more and it is a practice that isn't usually done very often. you may find suggestions in a few etiquette books, but to really see it in play in a manner that makes sense try viewing english period films. particularly those from the victorian or edwardian era. there were things that women knew then that we could all benefit from.

i will not advise you on your manner of articulation. i believe you must do what you feel is best for you. however, complexity usually comes after the simple has been thoroughly absorbed. i view a more simplistic approach in conjunction with the other methods being employed as a workable solution that will gain depth as she moves in the direction you're seeking. that's when the fun begins. otherwise you should factor in a margin of error and be mindful that the setting may provide hindrances that could compromise her compliance. good luck to you both.

porcelaine

_____________________________

His will; my fate.

(in reply to Sunnyfey)

Post #: 60

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