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Can there be a compromise? - 9/12/2009 12:35:24 PM   
SoulAlloy


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Status: offline 		Can there ever be a compromise when it comes to our dreams?

I have seen a few relationships break up where one partner wanted children and the other didn't. In both of these cases the partners were otherwise perfect for one another (one of the couples was even engaged to be married at the time)

There is no guarantee these dreams will be realised, and in many ways it's heartbreaking to see that stumbling block before them.

Basically I'm stumped as to how to help them (indeed I didn't know an answer when it happened to me) as they are both still desperate to be together.

Anyone out there with experiences or thoughts that might be able to help?

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RE: Can there be a compromise? - 9/12/2009 12:38:29 PM   
mnottertail


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Status: offline 		People who believe they have good prospects (either rightly or wrongly) are unaccustomed to compromise, you can't save the world.........in short, fuck 'em. let it go.

Ron

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RE: Can there be a compromise? - 9/12/2009 12:38:31 PM   
bluefireeyez


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Status: offline 		Every relationship has compromises. However, it is only the people involved that can decide how much and if they want to compromise. Unfortunately, the desire to have children or not is one that is usually felt about strongly so there would have to be a lot of talking going on for both parties.

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RE: Can there be a compromise? - 9/12/2009 12:40:52 PM   
SteelofUtah


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Status: offline 		The usual reason for these things is FEAR.

When it comes to Kids I think it is usual a good idea NOT to if one person is skittish as the child once born has no choice but to live by your decision.

BIG things are BIG things. If you Cannot get back them then breaking up is in my opinion the senseable thing to do.

The little shit can be rolled around for decades but the BIG things are just that BIG things.

A Moral Belief is not something that should be able to be compramised.

I would suggesting waiting one full year and see how they feel in a year if nothing has changed the couple now has a stringer foundation on which to make the decision to seperate or not but at least nothing was done rashly.

Steel

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RE: Can there be a compromise? - 9/12/2009 12:42:14 PM   
GreedyTop


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Status: offline 		Soul.. while your desire to help is commendable, only the people actually involved can determine what compromises they are willing to make, if any.

Your best bet, IMO, is just to be there for them, if they need you....


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RE: Can there be a compromise? - 9/12/2009 12:49:13 PM   
SoulAlloy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GreedyTop

Soul.. while your desire to help is commendable, only the people actually involved can determine what compromises they are willing to make, if any.

Your best bet, IMO, is just to be there for them, if they need you....



Oh I understand that, I certainly won't be butting in and insisting on compromise, especially not with kids (I have my own) - I just wondered if anyone had ever got past this mountain

I'll always be there for them

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RE: Can there be a compromise? - 9/12/2009 1:23:00 PM   
DesFIP


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Status: offline 		I know several men who remarried and the younger partner wanted a child. The compromise usually was to limit it to one child with the understanding that since his career is more important she would be doing the lion's share of child rearing. Sometimes however the wife couldn't handle him being an absentee father and the marriage still didn't last. In the good ones, he's a devoted father when he's home but business takes precedence over anything except hospitalizations.

In other cases I would suggest some individual therapy for both to look into their motives of why they do or don't want children. If it's fear that you'll turn into an abusive bastard like your father was, that can be addressed and old issues healed. If it's that her mother is hassling her about grandchildren, then the issue is that she needs first to learn healthy boundaries from her family of origin.

Why matters.

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RE: Can there be a compromise? - 9/13/2009 5:20:56 AM   
lusciouslips19


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Status: offline 		I have a isiter who married a man that was done having kids(grown triplet daghters). She broke up but then got back with him. They married. She has had her ups and downs with this decision and went through depression then therapy. She gota dog. This made her happy, though the dog was put to sleeprecently because of kidney failure. Her marriage other than that issue is a good one and she made thedecisin to deal with it and stay with him.

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RE: Can there be a compromise? - 9/13/2009 6:07:13 AM   
porcelaine


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Status: offline 		i had prepared to answer this question from a theoretical standpoint, but i've opted to change that and speak of my own situation instead. since that might help you see this from a different side. yes, i understand you're dismayed about their parting and the fact it appears largely over children. but you must keep in mind, no one tells you everything. there may be other things playing into this and the issue of children is the major deal breaker. i don't know if it can be compromised away. nor would i feel comfortable telling someone to give in or give up either. the one doing the bending may not come around and may grow to resent their decision.

i'm a mother and i have encountered many men desiring a family. i'm still young and able to conceive. but my daughter is heading off to college. it wouldn't take a rocket scientist to ascertain that i probably don't wish to start again. they would be correct. am i willing to compromise on this if i met a wonderful man that wanted a child? herein lay the real truth and i simply have no desire to sugarcoat things. most women, not all, will make compromises based on their feelings for the person, as opposed to the situation on its own. which simply means that it would depend on what i felt for him if it was a go or not.

in my circumstances there would have to be a lot of compromising on both sides. i'm changing careers and will travel frequently. am i supposed to give that up as well? what happens when i'm at the office or out of town, can he pick up the slack? what about maternity leave? is he hoping for a woman willing to stay or work from home? as you can see it isn't very black and white. you have all those questions that fall smack in the center that should be addressed upfront when possible. my caveat generally is that we need to be financially stable and able to afford help. if the prospective partner was unwilling to concede and simply wanted a june cleaver, as much as i might like him i'd have to suggest he find someone else.

i have also learned to be mindful what i share about my daughter. hearing of her success and all the accolades might encourage a person to believe it can be replicated. each child is different and i made huge sacrifices for her to achieve these things. i can't say the same would occur with the next child. their wiring is different. trying to explain this to someone that has never had children can be hard. i also take into account his age and why he hasn't had a child either. especially if he's never been married. i wonder why those situations didn't work. maybe it wasn't the other person's fault and he's picky, hard to live with, abusive, etc. if he's around my age i will generally cut him some slack. if he's older i start wondering what else is going on.

i think the best thing you can do is reserve judgment and listen. i love being a mother, but i also love my freedom as well. it is impossible to know beforehand how anyone will be as a parent. some relish the role and develop excellent parenting skills. others are merely a figure head and relatively absent from the picture. the real person lost in all of this is the child, someone that didn't ask for any of it. i will always suggest that children be brought into an environment where its presence was planned and wanted. compromises aside, it is the child that will pay the price if someone has a change of heart.

porcelaine


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RE: Can there be a compromise? - 9/13/2009 6:18:07 AM   
Ialdabaoth


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Status: offline 		Compromise? No. In these situations, there's no such thing. There can, however, be a détente.

Basically, what happens is that both sides get so tired of fighting for their dreams, that they just give up on some of them. They amputate bits of their soul when they realize that it's very likely that they'll never get what they actually want, and so they'd better start settling for what they can actually get.

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RE: Can there be a compromise? - 9/13/2009 6:28:09 AM   
IrishMist


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quote:

Oh I understand that, I certainly won't be butting in and insisting on compromise, especially not with kids (I have my own) - I just wondered if anyone had ever got past this mountain

I had just turned 18 when I met my late husband; he was 41 and was divorced with three children of his own whom he had full custody of. He made it very clear that there would be no more children. To be sure of this, he often accompanied me to the doctors/clinics when I got my BC shot. He also made it a point to use condoms as an added protection. He DID NOT WANT any more children.

Well, sometimes life throws us a hard ball. I got pregnant anyway. I was almost 5 months before I found the nerve to tell him. He took it very well. At the time, I was still drinking and smoking; his response was to simply tell me...no more to both, and then he proceeded to make sure that I stopped drinking and smoking.

After she was born, I asked him once if he regretted having her. Boy did he get pissed; just about busted my face in when he cracked me. Told me to never, ever, think that again. That while yes, he did not want any more; he would not change what had happened. He adored that little girl from the time she was born to the time he passed away.

So...in some cases, yes, something like this can be overcome. BUT, it is not something that I recommend. If one part of the couple does not want children, there is a very good reason for it and should be respected. If the other one finds that their need for that child is greateer than their need for the relationship, then it's time to end the relationship.

Sad, but true.

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RE: Can there be a compromise? - 9/13/2009 9:25:04 AM   
pahunkboy


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Status: offline 		We grow and change- a dream can evolve.

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RE: Can there be a compromise? - 9/13/2009 9:31:21 AM   
lusciouslips19


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quote:

ORIGINAL: IrishMist

quote:

Oh I understand that, I certainly won't be butting in and insisting on compromise, especially not with kids (I have my own) - I just wondered if anyone had ever got past this mountain

I had just turned 18 when I met my late husband; he was 41 and was divorced with three children of his own whom he had full custody of. He made it very clear that there would be no more children. To be sure of this, he often accompanied me to the doctors/clinics when I got my BC shot. He also made it a point to use condoms as an added protection. He DID NOT WANT any more children.

Well, sometimes life throws us a hard ball. I got pregnant anyway. I was almost 5 months before I found the nerve to tell him. He took it very well. At the time, I was still drinking and smoking; his response was to simply tell me...no more to both, and then he proceeded to make sure that I stopped drinking and smoking.

After she was born, I asked him once if he regretted having her. Boy did he get pissed; just about busted my face in when he cracked me. Told me to never, ever, think that again. That while yes, he did not want any more; he would not change what had happened. He adored that little girl from the time she was born to the time he passed away.

So...in some cases, yes, something like this can be overcome. BUT, it is not something that I recommend. If one part of the couple does not want children, there is a very good reason for it and should be respected. If the other one finds that their need for that child is greateer than their need for the relationship, then it's time to end the relationship.

Sad, but true.


I think you are very lucky that he stayed and loved and was a father to your daughter. Many in the same position would have been left to be a single mother.

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RE: Can there be a compromise? - 9/13/2009 10:03:35 AM   
porcelaine


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quote:

ORIGINAL: lusciouslips19

I think you are very lucky that he stayed and loved and was a father to your daughter. Many in the same position would have been left to be a single mother.


yes she was but considering her age the risk was always a possibility. i'd gather if he didn't want to take a chance he'd have gotten a vasectomy. i'm glad to hear the situation worked out well. many don't and someone is left holding the bag.

porcelaine


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RE: Can there be a compromise? - 9/13/2009 10:19:10 AM   
subbyadam


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Status: offline 		Agreed, although I never understood the men who left, but then again, this is a boy who wanted a child since he was sixteen. So.

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RE: Can there be a compromise? - 9/13/2009 10:34:53 AM   
DavanKael


Posts: 3072
Joined: 10/6/2007
Status: offline 		It's tempting to say compromise is possible and in some cases it is.  In the matter of something fundamental to a person, I have to say that it is not. 
Others have said it very well, so I will reference with credit: 

Irish Mist said: 
So...in some cases, yes, something like this can be overcome. BUT, it is not something that I recommend. If one part of the couple does not want children, there is a very good reason for it and should be respected. If the other one finds that their need for that child is greateer than their need for the relationship, then it's time to end the relationship.
((And, sweet story, btw.  I can tell, when you post, that you loved and still love your husband who passed vary much))

Ialdabaoth said: 
Compromise? No. In these situations, there's no such thing. There can, however, be a détente.
Basically, what happens is that both sides get so tired of fighting for their dreams, that they just give up on some of them. They amputate bits of their soul when they realize that it's very likely that they'll never get what they actually want, and so they'd better start settling for what they can actually get.
((Wow, did I feel the words of some of this related to my marriage.  I didn't get married feeling like I was settling in any way.  As the years wore on, boy did some of that change and, yeah it got to a point that required an end))

  Davan

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RE: Can there be a compromise? - 9/13/2009 11:17:55 AM   
nephandi


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Status: offline 		Greetings

Well a little hard to compromise when it comes to children, you sort of either have them or you do not. You can not have half a kid. Yes one can compromise, and in most relationships there is compromises, things one give up to be able to be with the other person. Your partner is allergic to fur, you love dogs, you get turtles, You like the dark, goth like way to decorate your home, he like cold modern, you choose something in between.

However every person have some things that are so important to them, that they should not compromise about it, doing so will only breed resentment towards the other person. Sometimes it is better to walk away from a relationship, no matter how hurtful it may be if you can not agree on the really important stuff, than to loose one self and end up hating your partner for it.

I wish you well


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RE: Can there be a compromise? - 9/13/2009 11:51:18 AM   
allthatjaz


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SoulAlloy

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreedyTop

Soul.. while your desire to help is commendable, only the people actually involved can determine what compromises they are willing to make, if any.

Your best bet, IMO, is just to be there for them, if they need you....



Oh I understand that, I certainly won't be butting in and insisting on compromise, especially not with kids (I have my own) - I just wondered if anyone had ever got past this mountain

I'll always be there for them


I made many compromises in my past relationship and it was those very compromises that brought the relationship to its eventual end. I am not talking little things like what order the cutlery goes in the drawer but life changing things such as where do we live?

Stephen and me both agreed early on that we would not be making any big compromises to suit the other. Once you start where do you stop?

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RE: Can there be a compromise? - 9/14/2009 6:02:40 AM   
sublace


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Status: offline 		The kindest advice - stay out of other people's business.

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RE: Can there be a compromise? - 9/14/2009 9:17:58 PM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline 		Some things can be compromised depending on just how important they are to you.
Some things cannot be compromised depending on how important they are to you.

The decision to have children or not is not something people should compromise on imo because it involves not just your life or your partner's but bringing an entirely new one into the world that you will have a responsibility to for the rest of your natural life.

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