The Friday night curfew

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stella41b -> The Friday night curfew (8/28/2009 10:54:39 AM)
It's Friday. The Friday of a week marred by violence at the West Ham vs. Millwall midweek soccer match where hordes of drunken supporters commonly known as soccer hooligans invaded the pitch and engaged in violent clashes on the streets of East London around the Upton Park stadium. But it's also Friday, the end of the working week and just like any Friday a time when those returning home from work head for the pub to drink and socialize, just as they head off to pubs in central London after a long day at the office. Up until last year the pubs would be packed people would drink, get drunk, and have fun with their friends. But last year in July our government introduced a smoking ban in all the pubs and all public buildings. If you want to smoke you must do it outside on the streets. This has led, from what I can see, to a new social phenomena. Before you would have a packed pub. But now you have a crowd of drinkers hanging around on the street outside the pub, smoking. Many of the drinkers are male, the suited and booted office or professional types (but not all) and it would seem a potentially dangerous cocktail of groups made up of predominantly men drinking alcohol, smoking and being out on the street. Arguably rather like the soccer 'fans' who went to the West Ham vs. Millwall match this last week in East London. Near where I live on the way to shops you have three pubs within a short distance of each other. Walking past or sometimes having to walk through these groups of drinkers I have been groped, threatened, verbally attacked on numerous occasions - 'fat bitch', 'slag', 'trannie', 'poofter' and on one occasion had a bottle thrown at me which narrowly missed my head. Suffice to say now on a Friday evening I rarely if ever go out, and if I do it is in a different direction to that where the pubs are. But as one of the pubs is at the end of my street it's hard. It's just not worth the aggro. And I'm not the only one. Some of my neighbours feel the same way. Earlier this afternoon I was talking to a domme friend who also gets hassled because as part of her job she has to carry a box around with her. I call this my Friday Night Curfew. Not that I am trying here to paint the picture that everyone who smokes and drinks outside a pub on a Friday evening is in some way a hooligan. I'm not. Not every Friday has something happened. In many cases nothing happened. But on certain Fridays among certain groups hanging out led to some kind of issue or trouble and I have decided that rather than risk it I would prefer to stay home. However it makes me wonder. It makes me wonder whether this is just specific to my neighbourhood of London, or whether there are other areas or places which are potentially no go for some people. Hooliganism as we know is certainly not a new social phenomena, and we know that it usually involves groups of predominantly men and access to alcohol at a public venue (so as not to be sexist I'm also aware that a crowd of women who are boozed up can also get quite rowdy) with little or no supervision, and I don't feel I am taxing my imagination all that much when such an element is introduced to the street where something or someone can appear and it 'kicks off' as it were. However I have to wonder whether this possibility was not considered by those who introduced the smoking ban. Does this lead to increased incidents of street violence? Do the police see this as a problem? How about you? Do you see something similar or does it make you wonder? As always, your thoughts, comments and views.

servantforuse -> RE: The Friday night curfew (8/28/2009 11:13:23 AM)
There is an old saying for things like this. ' For every action, there is a reaction ".Politically correct ideas running amock.

pahunkboy -> RE: The Friday night curfew (8/28/2009 11:22:54 AM)
I doubt it has much to do with smoking. I dont live there so I don't know. In my experience in the US is that we have ample laws as it is. No matter what the irritant a handy cop or a citizen with a computer can majically find the infraction.

pahunkboy -> RE: The Friday night curfew (8/29/2009 12:19:52 PM)
Stella- the more I think on this the more I am convinced existing law can be applied. Most towns codes are posted online. I had a situation where UM were having a screaming contest. To see how loud and long they all can scream. Well doing some digging- my town is what they call a class 3 sized city. So- looking at all the infractions- I seen the noise part. There is loitering- and the dog barking is only 10 minutes where it has previously been 20 mins. I know the town here has been deleting out of date laws. On bike rules- I was confused- until it dawned on me the the state laws would trump city law. So it was redundant. In nearly every community- you have the owners of it and the others. The law sides with the owners as that is where the pay check comes from. Years ago- the curfew thing was on my mind.... but reviewing it- I was ok- of going to and from work. There were other exceptions too. My point is that in 2009- we pretty much have every law we need.

LillyoftheVally -> RE: The Friday night curfew (8/29/2009 12:22:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: pahunkboy I doubt it has much to do with smoking. The shift has happened everywhere, pubs which used to be packed are empty in favour of te streets and beer gardens.

pahunkboy -> RE: The Friday night curfew (8/29/2009 12:33:21 PM)
...my sister lives in a nice zip code. She complained over the outdoor beer garden music being too loud. That is pretty bad. I am not a smoker. I think that banning smoking in bars is asinine. In this small town- the people will congregate- it goes in cycles. But this summer it has not been bad at all. I think tho that our crime watch had checked it. Early in the summer there were 3 brawals in 3 weeks time. My thinking tho- is- ok- if we clam down on the North side- and the trouble migrates to the SOuthside then I lose out. So keep the trouble contained to the certain area. If the southside area of this town goes- the entire town is done. historically the bell weather. A few nearby towns have a lw on cruising. Driving 3+ times past the down town with in a certain time frame. After gas went up that issue fizzled out.

FullCircle -> RE: The Friday night curfew (8/29/2009 12:44:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: servantforuse There is an old saying for things like this. ' For every action, there is a reaction ".Politically correct ideas running amock. That isn't a saying it's one of Newton's laws of motion and it has nothing to do with human psychology. For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. Sorry to be pedantic but why do people quote Newton as if he was ever talking about human behaviour? So using your misquote politically correct ideas running amok would lead to a load of politically incorrect ideas running amok, well at least your being honest about the incorrectness of it I suppose. My view related to the op is that I'm sick of teenagers swearing at one another outside my window. I was young once but my vocabulary almost always consisted of more than two words. I'm also sick of the police helicopter flying over my house a two am due to some joy rider getting lost in a field or conducting other nefarious activities. In conclusion yes there is far too much crime and that isn't going to reduce under the conservatives. Crime tends to rise during recessions regardless of what a government tries to do to prevent it. When people were saying violence not seen since the 70s and 80s they didn't then also make the connection in terms of the economy during those times of high football violence. i.e. treated like shit at work and lost your job....take it out on that four legged police officer. I doubt it has much to do with the smoking ban, at some point people will congregate in large numbers due to chucking out time. People act like idiots in groups they get this courage from being in a group they fail to find when alone. If a group of nuns was walking towards me I'd cross the road to avoid them.

Aneirin -> RE: The Friday night curfew (8/29/2009 1:19:29 PM)
At one time in the UK, pubs were civilised, they realised not all patrons wanted to socialise in a smoke laden atmosphere, so they created 'smoking rooms' where smokers could go and smoke as well as enjoy their pint, socialise or just read the paper, all were catered for. But now, we have been forced to become more primitive, if we want to smoke, off the premises we must go, in all weathers, no provision is made to shelter or warm smokers, smokers are shite as far as the government is concerned, yet they still reap millions in Tax from smokers and blame smokers for the drain on the NHS. You see, what they have done with this ridiculous law, is discriminate against a socital group, they have forced discrimination on normal law abiding citizens. You see, smokers are not an ethnic group, a religious group or any other special group, so their needs are ignored and indeed villified. We have a similar problem at our local, down in a sleepy Devon valley, all smokers must go outside, and guess what, that is over half of the pub's clientele. So, what is happening, well, we have a problem with a neighbour, only one neighbour who can't handle the noise of the smokers, and now a complaint that the smoke is coming in through her upstairs window, where it just happens her child sleeps. Now, this complainant, is a city solicitor, so she knows what powers are available to her, and the pub is now threatened with closure because of smokers outside smoking. You see, this ill thought out pathetic law has provided a club for the busybody to beat a normal law abiding citizen with. Just to note, the pub clientele, are in the age groups 30+, the chavs and other riff raff have been expelled months ago, to the pubs deficit, they lost a lot of money, but they were bad for the area, the landlord realised this and made the decision, of peace and decency before profits. Regarding the complainant, she chose to move to a house next to a pub, and is there complaining about the noise. There is talk of getting a petition up to stop here causing problems, as her actions are afecting many people, and a legitimate business which serves as an adult social club in my village, literally everyone from time to time visits, including many tourists, but not her, she is obvious in her abscence. But the way this sad country is going, the majority are getting pushed aside in favour of the minority, this singular person, will destroy it for many. By the way, get Brown out, he is unelected for his position, wanker !!! Now, correct me if I am wrong, but are the bars in parliament smoke free, as one does not see a gaggle of smokers outside westminster hugging their pints.

LillyoftheVally -> RE: The Friday night curfew (8/29/2009 1:57:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aneirin At one time in the UK, pubs were civilised, they realised not all patrons wanted to socialise in a smoke laden atmosphere, so they created 'smoking rooms' where smokers could go and smoke as well as enjoy their pint, socialise or just read the paper, all were catered for. But now, we have been forced to become more primitive, if we want to smoke, off the premises we must go, in all weathers, no provision is made to shelter or warm smokers, Most bars I have been to does have sheltered areas, I'm thinking of the pubs in my small town and I actually can't think of one without a sheltered area. As the area is often small warmth aint much of an issue either. I used to get on my high horse about the ban, but in most instances it is just a small inconvenience.

Musicmystery -> RE: The Friday night curfew (8/29/2009 2:10:38 PM)
quote: it's one of Newton's laws of motion and it has nothing to do with human psychology. For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. Sorry to be pedantic but why do people quote Newton as if he was ever talking about human behaviour? Because they understand the role of metaphor in language.

pahunkboy -> RE: The Friday night curfew (8/29/2009 4:23:57 PM)
...lets not get me started on how people leave litter out. Every day I pick it up. Shocking as it may sound. People do live in houses and just because a road is there does not mean that one can toss out litter. Lately the neighborhood has been trashy... and some people have no regard for others. I wish I could move further out.

Aneirin -> RE: The Friday night curfew (8/29/2009 7:35:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LillyoftheVally quote: ORIGINAL: Aneirin At one time in the UK, pubs were civilised, they realised not all patrons wanted to socialise in a smoke laden atmosphere, so they created 'smoking rooms' where smokers could go and smoke as well as enjoy their pint, socialise or just read the paper, all were catered for. But now, we have been forced to become more primitive, if we want to smoke, off the premises we must go, in all weathers, no provision is made to shelter or warm smokers, Most bars I have been to does have sheltered areas, I'm thinking of the pubs in my small town and I actually can't think of one without a sheltered area. As the area is often small warmth aint much of an issue either. I used to get on my high horse about the ban, but in most instances it is just a small inconvenience. I was down the pub tonight, and as I can't handle loud noise when I am chatting to pals, I am in the beer garden, with my pals, chatting quietly, in normal voices. But come eleven, we were kicked out of the beer garden and told to go inside, or go home. Now, I took exception to this, I do not see why my human rights are being ruled over by one other person. We are not noisy, we are talking quietly, but we must enter the noise, where conversation is impossible. Now, to say the least, I was furious, I wanted to know the complaining bitch's name, for it is in my mind to challenge her, as she is responsible for curtailing my right to peaceful conversation in a quiet area of the pub. I was told it was useless to challenge her, as it was known, she is well respected with the council, and has abused her privleges before now, she is doing it yet again, she knows how to manipulate the law to her own ends. To that I just think evil. We had a covered smoking area, but the police came and banned us using it, as it is too close to her house, so now, it is out in the rain. This law that has come into being, has done more to lose the labour party vote than anything else, even the hard line labourites now curse what they supported.

Arpig -> RE: The Friday night curfew (8/29/2009 11:34:09 PM)
quote: Sorry to be pedantic but why do people quote Newton as if he was ever talking about human behaviour? Because it is applicable regardless of what Newton was actually talking about....human interactions work that way as well,

popeye1250 -> RE: The Friday night curfew (8/30/2009 1:19:09 AM)
Roadtrip! Sounds likeit's time for a driveby!

FullCircle -> RE: The Friday night curfew (8/30/2009 9:28:53 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery Because they understand the role of metaphor in language. Well it don't make sense in that respect does it, what image is this metaphor conjuring up? More likely it's just become one of those meaningless clichés people use for just about every topic under the sun. They probably don’t even know what they mean when they say it, similar to those people that say ‘well at the end of the day’. It's just an overused cliché pure and simple, it says nothing on the topic of political correctness. Yeah because with all this PC activity there needs to be a reaction to that; cause and effect bla bla bla. Look there is another overused cliché ‘cause and effect’. This isn't giving an opinion or analysing a question it is just stating that if you turn on a tap water will come out. Q)So what do you think of Obama struggling to get his healthcare reform through? Ans) Well he is struggling because for every action there is a reaction. Q)Why do you think Afghanistan is a hotbed of terrorism. Ans) Well it's is obvious isn't it they are reacting to the action i.e. every action has a reaction, cause and effect etc. Q)Why is the economy fuckered? Ans) At the end of the day it gets dark and may I add the economy is a complex balance of cause and effect.

FullCircle -> RE: The Friday night curfew (8/30/2009 11:00:33 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Arpig quote: Sorry to be pedantic but why do people quote Newton as if he was ever talking about human behaviour? Because it is applicable regardless of what Newton was actually talking about....human interactions work that way as well, So if I write a post it will always get a reply; leading to an endless conversation between two humans? One of us will get bored thus a human action doesn't always guarantee a human reaction or any other kind of reaction. It is not possible to summarise human interaction in such a way, it is only possible to summarise a force acting on a body this way, as neither has freewill. Perhaps your thinking is that if I carry out the action of cutting my toenails it could indeed lead to global consequences and people forming an alliance against those that would dare cut their toenails. The problem with modern philosophy IMOSVHO is we garner a lot of these ancient truths and apply them to things far outside the scope of the original model that demonstrated the truth.

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