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RE: Kinky Dating, BDSM, and Sex - 8/24/2009 6:04:18 PM

kallisto

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

Well now. There's a title that could capture the attention of a lot of folks.

I tend to see BDSM play that doesn't involve physical sex as part of that progression. I put it somewhere in the making out or heavy petting stage that some vanilla folks do on how they escalate their relationships. Starting to implement little bits of power structure as I go along or some tastes of play here and there. It becomes as process as a dynamic builds. A part of that is sexual tension, even though I may not be interested in sexual satisfaction too early in this process. I want the full range of bond to exist before it goes to a physical, sexual level.

I'm wondering how others see the progression in dating folks who are interested in BDSM. How do things work for you? Is the bond of a D/s or emotional dynamic a requirement before sexual interaction? Can you engage in casual play for a period of time as you are building that bond that does not include physical sex?

Definitely caught my attention LadyPact

I want to get to know the man first including his "vanilla" side as I want him to get to know me. Compatibility on a day to day basis has to be there first. Although I agree with you that I see the power dymanic as part of the progression to the physical side of the relationship.

For me, the emotional and mental bond has to be in place before the physical side. I'm going on the basis here that we both know what we want is a D/s dynamic, then the conversation/getting to know you phase is going to have these understones.

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RE: Kinky Dating, BDSM, and Sex - 8/24/2009 6:21:24 PM

delonval

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quote:

Now, if we were vanilla people, we might go through a pattern of coffee, decide we like each other enough to do lunch, then dinner, maybe a movie or some other activity, so on and so on. Perhaps emotional attachments start to form, etc. We might hug to say hello or good-bye. Engage in the classic good-night kiss at the doorway. Maybe do a little heavy petting to see if the sparks fly.

quote:

I tend to see BDSM play that doesn't involve physical sex as part of that progression. I put it somewhere in the making out or heavy petting stage that some vanilla folks do on how they escalate their relationships. Starting to implement little bits of power structure as I go along or some tastes of play here and there. It becomes as process as a dynamic builds. A part of that is sexual tension, even though I may not be interested in sexual satisfaction too early in this process. I want the full range of bond to exist before it goes to a physical, sexual level.

i've been similarly intrigued by all the discussions as of late as to when kink should be introduced into a dynamic, whether in the form of discussion or play. the above seem to me to be ideals; how one hopes things will play out. yet, courting/dating is often far from ideal, kinky or not. some vanilla people can sleep together after the first date and wind up living happily ever after. others walk away with regrets over unrealistic expectations and misplaced trust. i imagine the same is true between kinky people. if you talk about kink right off the bat, you could miss some crucial red flags that would have otherwise sent you running in the opposite direction, but maybe not. vanilla people often talk about sex as part of the initial seduction and to assess compatibility. same principle. perhaps you top someone early on and it all goes wrong and people walk away hurt or disappointed, but maybe it's the start of a meaningful relationship that eventually develops into a full blown d/s dynamic.

there are always ways of going about courting/dating that seem "better" than others, but there are no guarantees, either way.

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RE: Kinky Dating, BDSM, and Sex - 8/24/2009 6:27:39 PM

DomImus

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomImus

I'll see your play and raise you fornication. I don't have a problem with play that includes sex as part of that progression if that's the direction that things head in. I don't have to have it but it's not off the table. I don't practice a set progression. Sometimes things take a while to build and other times they don't. I let the situation dictate the path.

More directly, Imus, do you feel the same in reverse. If your play for whatever reason is going to be agreed will not include any forms of physical sex, can you see that as acceptable?

Sure. I just said "I don't have to have it" and that's particularly so in a case where I'm getting to know someone that I think might be a long term candidate for partnership. If they would like to wait before we cross certain frontiers I'm pretty open to that. Might save me some grief in the end. After getting to know one another they might think things are going great when I'm lukewarm about it all and decide to fold. Not having crossed that sexual threshold at that point would be an asset.

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RE: Kinky Dating, BDSM, and Sex - 8/24/2009 6:40:17 PM

LadyPact

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quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

For the sake of discussion, let's go with the theory that we're not vanilla people. (Humor Me.)
*sighs* fine fine... You, Davan, Carol. All the women in my life keep demanding that I'm not vanilla... sheez

I do appreciate your entire answer, Leadership. Though, I do think that instigating with Davan is probably your own fault. LOL.

Thank you for your response. My best to Carol.

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RE: Kinky Dating, BDSM, and Sex - 8/24/2009 6:46:49 PM

LadyPact

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I do want to thank everyone for the answers they've given in the thread. I'm enjoying the different perspectives.

I wish I would have included things such as public play (S/m, rope, etc) in the mix of the original as that is a particular circumstance where play would *have* to be kept separate from physical sex, at least for an amount of time. A lot of clubs and/or groups don't allow direct genital to genital or oral contact, but there sure are a heck of a lot of folks playing at parties. LOL.

Please continue adding to the thread.

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Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

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RE: Kinky Dating, BDSM, and Sex - 8/24/2009 7:44:21 PM

pyroaquatic

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I've never been to a club before. Or a party.

Hell.... I have only been on....

*tries to figure out how many dates he has been on.*

I have come to the conclusion that I have never been on a date.

I feel socially stupid.

Unless consensual abduction counts as a date.

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RE: Kinky Dating, BDSM, and Sex - 8/24/2009 8:06:59 PM

DavanKael

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

For the sake of discussion, let's go with the theory that we're not vanilla people. (Humor Me.)
*sighs* fine fine... You, Davan, Carol. All the women in my life keep demanding that I'm not vanilla... sheez

I do appreciate your entire answer, Leadership. Though, I do think that instigating with Davan is probably your own fault. LOL.

Thank you for your response. My best to Carol.

Points Jeff in the direction of his quote in my sig line. :>
LadyPact, you're right: I point out to Jeff he's not vanilla, he points out to me that he doesn't think I'm predominantly submissive. It's all good. And, he and Carol keep each other wonderfully on track, so all the better!
Interesting progression in those names, actually now that I take note: most to least Dominant. :>
If it's hi-jacking tell me so or, of course feel free to cmail me, but I have a question: when you play casually, what sort of preliminaries are standard for you?
And, if it's not too personal, how do those experiences differ from the less casual ones?
Davan

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It's about the person & the bond,not the bondage
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RE: Kinky Dating, BDSM, and Sex - 8/24/2009 9:14:21 PM

AAkasha

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Great question, LadyPact!

Now that I am married and my BDSM is already with people "in the know" about kink and my marital status, everything is basically discussed up front. In some ways that's nice, but it does reduce some of the early-relationship excitement and butterflies about physical lust and intimacy and the timing.

Pre-marriage, my kinkiness toward a man developed organically, and was just an extension of my gestures of affection. If I am attracted to a man, I want to see him helpless. If I am kissing a man, I want to know what it feels like to have him whimper in my mouth. If I am cuddling with a man, I want to tie him up, "just for fun." If I am getting my feet rubbed, I want him on the floor, so I can push him down with my feet or say playfully condescending things to him. If we are strolling through the mall holding hands, I want to sometimes stop and push him up against the wall, facing it, and twist his arm behind his back and pretend I am taking him into custody. If we're saying goodnight out by my car, I want to push him over the hood and kick his ankles apart and frisk him....you get the picture .....

My lust, affection, flirtation all have some bdsm and fetish overtones in them. By the time I was engaged in first-kiss with any guy, he knew I had some kinky streak going, or was into bondage, or just different. Usually the questions came after that. Then I just dealt with it. The problem with vanilla guys is that I always had to say, early on, "Just because I am kinky doesn't mean I am easy. I don't have sexual intercourse with just anyone. It's not happening until I say, and if I say..."   because when a vanilla guy realized he's with a kinky girl, and, HOT DAMN, she has TOYS, he immediately thinks she is into sex 24/7 and he's getting laid.   I had to set sexual boundaries out in the open and make them very clear.

With men who were already kinky, who I met through BDSM circles or online, I'd just do the same, but there was more of a sense of apprehension or "when is she gonna do it?" vibe hanging in the air, which I tried to get rid of if possible. I am sure all femdoms have had the vanilla "first date" with a kinky guy and he says something like, "you aren't what I expected..I mean, I thought you'd be more -- well, dominant." Meaning, they don't see it right away in you, or in your actions, and they are waiting for it. The unspoken, "when are we gonna play?" thing is troublesome to me at times because the answer is, "when I feel like it and the time is right."

Typically the time frame with me between first meetings with bondage within any time between the first 15 minutes (clubs) to the end of the first date (vanillas). If I didn't have enough chemistry to at least want to do some light bondage (I have a horribly curiosity to see a man helpless if I just met him and think he is cute) fairly soon, I generally wouldn't keep going on dates to see if it developed.    But I was terribly patient with the extent and nature of the BDSM I engaged in; light bondage, fully clothed S&M and the like could keep me fully engaged for the first several dates until things evolved. Of course, since I wasn't having sex right away, there'd be some chastity mixed right in too; but we all know young guys who are horny and not in a chastity device lie about how often they cum between dates ... :)

Akasha

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RE: Kinky Dating, BDSM, and Sex - 8/24/2009 9:15:08 PM

LadyPact

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Davan, it's neither too personal, nor a hijack. It's only fair to turn a question back to the person who asked it, rather than just an OP getting everyone else's opinions.

In My own case, it varies. I've done everything from going to the club and just finding someone who wanted to engage in a little bit of public play to friends that I've known for years where there was a great top/bottom compatibility between us. I prefer there to be a good friendship with My play partners for S/m. I base that on I want us to have a relaxed atmosphere for communication, not just for during the scene, but for follow up later on. Endorphin rush all around and everybody is happy. I'd kind of put that in the casual dating category. Sometimes, they were blind dates (closest equivalent I can think of) and other times like going to a movie with a long time pal. Still the kissing on the doorstep type of arrangement, where everyone goes their separate ways when it's over.

When I'm building a D/s dynamic, obviously, it's a bit more well rounded. There's more non S/m time involved, service becomes involved and intimacy begins. Play becomes more in depth. I'm looking more at overall compatibility, rather than just what can be enjoyed in a single scene. More of a complete picture. Increasing trust, control, and the emotional bonds tend to become stronger. I'm the type who needs all of these things to have a foundation before sexual physical intimacy begins. I'm afraid I'm rather old fashioned in that sense. It is absolutely a progression for Me.

Thank you for your question. I hope the answer will give you an idea of I take the steps toward physical intimacy.

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

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RE: Kinky Dating, BDSM, and Sex - 8/24/2009 9:44:33 PM

DavanKael

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Hi, LadyPact, and thank you for your replies to my queries.
Your explanation helped me to gain a better understanding. :>
Davan

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May you live as long as you wish & love as long as you live
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It's about the person & the bond,not the bondage
-Me

Waiting is

170NZ (Aka:Sex God Du Jour) pts

Jesus,I've ALWAYS been a deviant
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RE: Kinky Dating, BDSM, and Sex - 8/24/2009 10:42:31 PM

TazDevil

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I hear that stop smokeing drugs give you rather kinkey dreems

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RE: Kinky Dating, BDSM, and Sex - 8/25/2009 2:26:17 AM

MaamJay

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I'm probably closer to Your model LP than any of the others. I want to get to know a person as much as I can initially from conversations ... and in those I cover potential bdsm compatability along with other aspects of general compatability. As a sub said here, if the basic "hot buttons" aren't similar between sub and Dominant, then you may as well move on and not waste each other's time and emotions. I tend not to talk as much about sex acts in the beginning though, unless they are linked to the bdsm eg anal play. I'm not going to wax lyrical about how regular intercourse is going to occur ... other than to say I enjoy it and want plenty! This weeds the cuckolds out!

If the basics are there, then there will be a first "vanilla" meet, where we talk at first about everyday things, and then discreetly, about a bit of bdsm stuff. Might have a hug or a quick kiss if the chemistry is there. That would be followed by more intimate settings for such meetings or maybe an initial play session. I don't see all forms of bdsm play as sexual ... while spanking and flogging may be enjoyable, they're not necessarily sexual for Me. Quite often in initial play sessions My clothes stay on, their clothes come off! If they please Me, I will have them masturbate and cum for Me, I might not even touch their genitals at all. So it might be sexual for them (boys tend to like that!). Over time the warmth and intimacy will build along with the trust. It's a rare sub with whom I progress more intimately and engage in play which involves Me naked or giving golden showers etc in those early encounters. And having vaginal intercourse with Me would be a fair way down the track and only when Master approves it, though He might approve them performing oral on Me before then.

Along with the progression in intimacy comes a progression in depth of bdsm play. I don't do anal play straight off for eg, I want the trust to develop first. Unless the sub is a bondage bunny, I don't usually do that to any degree on a first play session either, again that takes quite a lot of trust. I might do a rope harness instead so they can feel the rope but not be confined to one spot by it. In terms of service, that also builds from simple tasks "Carry this for Me" to "Make lunch for Me" etc.

That's the best I can explain it! However, as in most things, these "rules" have been broken on occasion and I've lived to tell the tale!

Maam Jay aka violet[A]

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