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[Poll]

Opinions sought - ethics vs reckless endangerment

ethics issue

8% (2)

reckless endangerment issue

20% (5)

both

56% (14)

neither

12% (3)

don't care

4% (1)

Total Votes : 25

(last vote on : 8/24/2009 7:59:23 PM)
(Poll will run till: -- )

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Opinions sought - ethics vs reckless endangerment - 8/22/2009 3:41:44 PM

fewlimitshere

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A hypothetical question...

- A person has an std (let's say HSV2)
- The person will not inform play partners of it
- Will ask that protection be used but not the reason

Is this a matter of ethics or reckless endangerment or both?

Does it make a difference if there's no direct sexual contact?

Just soliticing thoughts and opinions.

< Message edited by fewlimitshere -- 8/22/2009 3:42:29 PM >

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RE: Opinions sought - ethics vs reckless endangerment - 8/22/2009 3:56:48 PM

Toppingfrmbottom

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Well any one I will ever get involved with for a relationship has to provide recent STD test pappers showing they have no known std's so they wouldn't get away with that kind of crap with me, but I believe it's both reckless endangerment and un ethical. But who says someone like that has anything resembling ethics to begin with.

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RE: Opinions sought - ethics vs reckless endangerment - 8/22/2009 3:59:32 PM

Level

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It's reckless, and if I ever found out someone I was with did not inform me they had an STD, they and I would have a Come to Jesus meeting to end them all.

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RE: Opinions sought - ethics vs reckless endangerment - 8/22/2009 4:23:20 PM

Rule

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What do you mean by 'ethics'?

I have got herpes on my nostrils, lip, penis, inside my mouth, and elsewhere and I always tell everybody and never touch anybody. (It started on my lip.) Happily I have not had any serious outbreaks for some time now, but I know that I am contagious anyway.

Is life hard for me. Yes, very hard. I have got to subsist daily on three or four litres of yoghurt and vitamin C mainly.

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RE: Opinions sought - ethics vs reckless endangerment - 8/22/2009 6:55:00 PM

sunshinemiss

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If it's for play and just fun... well there's a calculated risk generally anyway. If you are messing around with someone and you don't specifically ask, then that's your own fault. When I've played in the past and been asked point blank, I tell everyone "presume I have HIV" because maybe I do.

If this is for some kind of longer term relationship (even if just long term play partners, friends with benefits, etc.) then I'd say telling is probably important. Not because of more risk, but because it is inherent in the relationship that there is some sort of trust being built.

Just my two cents.

ETA: And by the way, where is the "reckless endangerment"? The person is protecting the partner. Someone with that level of clarity is showing quite a lot of backbone by insisting that the other person be in a safe situation. People who are recklessly endangering another don't insist on protection.

< Message edited by sunshinemiss -- 8/22/2009 6:58:35 PM >

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RE: Opinions sought - ethics vs reckless endangerment - 8/22/2009 7:07:45 PM

DesFIP

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If you know that condoms are an effective barrier then it isn't reckless. Same with nonsexual play, if you know they positively can't get it, then it isn't reckless.

What it is however is a lie. And that's nonethical. You're lying because you're afraid they wouldn't play/fuck you if they knew the truth. No difference than lying about your marriage status. You're a liar and unethical.

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RE: Opinions sought - ethics vs reckless endangerment - 8/22/2009 7:16:24 PM

sunshinemiss

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Nonsense. That is a private thing. Why? Because all kinds of other things come up. Maybe that person doesn't want to be just a disease.

If you have having relatively nonrelational interacitons (casual play/sex), then you gotta presume there is risk involved.

It's nobody's business. I always think of the 12 year old girl I worked with who got herpes from being raped. Why would she reveal any of that? What a price to pay for a little fun. You wanna have some casual fun? Then you better be realistic about the risk involved.

Nope, there is a difference between privacy and lying. I stand by that.

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RE: Opinions sought - ethics vs reckless endangerment - 8/22/2009 8:14:52 PM

fluffypet61

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i always insist on condoms. Do i have to have a reason?

i don't see either an ethics issue or an endangerment issue.

If someone has the flu and insists on being at work or school...is that an ethics issue or an endangerment issue? That's more risky to my health than casual play or sex using a condom if someone has an std.

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RE: Opinions sought - ethics vs reckless endangerment - 8/24/2009 2:21:15 PM

fewlimitshere

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Reckles Endangerment -
A person commits the crime of reckless endangerment if the person recklessly engages in conduct which creates a substantial risk of serious physical injury to another person. “Reckless” conduct is conduct that exhibits a culpable disregard of foreseeable consequences to others from the act or omission involved. The accused need not intentionally cause a resulting harm or know that his conduct is substantially certain to cause that result. The ultimate question is whether, under all the circumstances, the accused’s conduct was of that heedless nature that made it actually or imminently dangerous to the rights or safety of others.

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RE: Opinions sought - ethics vs reckless endangerment - 8/24/2009 2:32:49 PM

LaTigresse

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I voted for both.

And second what Level said. If there was anything left of them when I got done, I would file charges.

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RE: Opinions sought - ethics vs reckless endangerment - 8/24/2009 3:07:37 PM

beargonewild

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I also voted both. Ethically we have a duty to inform a potential play partner if our health status could in any was affect theirs. It is also reckless as we could be charged with endangering another's live/health if the other person wanted to press charges, especially if the infected person is aware they are infected and doesn't voluntary disclose that to another.

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RE: Opinions sought - ethics vs reckless endangerment - 8/24/2009 3:55:53 PM

fewlimitshere

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I'll add another twist to the discussion...

The person is being flogged/whipped in a public space...
What about the potential for bodily fluids being dispersed into the crowd?
That's a Biggie, I think....

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RE: Opinions sought - ethics vs reckless endangerment - 8/24/2009 6:00:16 PM

beargonewild

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I would assume and error on the side of caution that the possibility is high. Though I do admit that situation is one I hadn't thought about thus I can only speculate. Alasp that can also apply when watching a cutting demo and the bottom squirms too much and small drops of blood is sent airborne or some happen to spill i=on the floor and another steps in it barefoot.

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RE: Opinions sought - ethics vs reckless endangerment - 8/24/2009 6:56:10 PM

fewlimitshere

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here's another "twist"...
to those who think condoms make one safe...

let's say a condom is worn to prevent direct exposure...
but... she has the std and just shaved...
now her open pores can expose him to it...
and, the opposite...
he has the std, wears a condom, but his sweat exposes her just shaved pores...

what if she has the std and Loves the taste of her own pussy...
now, even Kissing her can expose someone...

people who believe condoms or dental dams are the solution are deluded.

as a group, we tend to be More risky than most...
it's all about ethics and informed consent....

< Message edited by fewlimitshere -- 8/24/2009 6:59:28 PM >

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