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Gay-to-Straight Theory - 8/6/2009 5:54:37 AM

MsFlutter

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Psychologists Reject Gay-to-Straight 'Therapy'

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RE: Gay-to-Straight Theory - 8/6/2009 9:19:27 AM

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I am surprised there have been no comments on this article. But maybe it is because those with common sense are amazed that it took psychologists so long to understand homosexuality is not a mental disease. Sort of makes you wonder if psychology is mumbojumbo.

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RE: Gay-to-Straight Theory - 8/6/2009 10:25:09 AM

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butch, i dont know if it was psychologists not *understanding* that homosexuality is not a mental abberation, or them *wanting* it to be so that (some) people wouldnt have the issues that some do in self-acceptance.

would it be easier for people if they could be cured of homosexuality (and bisexual tendencies as well) and there be one sexual "normal"? yes. there wouldnt be any hate crimes for someone who swims against the stream, who yearns for the embrace of someone the same gender. but we arent like that. we *do*. and i think that all these biologists who have found members of the non-human animal kingdom who do, indeed, prefer their own gender over the opposite one have finally convinced even psychologists that homosexuality IS normal behavior.

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RE: Gay-to-Straight Theory - 8/6/2009 2:04:00 PM

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Speaking from experience, the bible says no man shall lay beside another and that marriage is the binding of a man to a woman. This can make it very hard for gay and bi people in the church as well as with there own faith. I am sure if my father ever found out I was bi he would try sending me to someone to "fix" me. It is because of this among other things that I am struggling with my faith as well as hating religion.

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RE: Gay-to-Straight Theory - 8/6/2009 2:26:19 PM

kdsub

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Hmm... If I wanted to be gay I would not need to lay with... behind would be good enough...and it seems to me it is Gods place to judge not the church...but that is just me. I'd like to know where in the Bible it says sinners cannot be a member of Gods church.

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RE: Gay-to-Straight Theory - 8/6/2009 2:46:39 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NightTigress

Speaking from experience, the bible says no man shall lay beside another and that marriage is the binding of a man to a woman. This can make it very hard for gay and bi people in the church as well as with there own faith. I am sure if my father ever found out I was bi he would try sending me to someone to "fix" me. It is because of this among other things that I am struggling with my faith as well as hating religion.

It's mentioned only in the Old Testament. Nowhere in the New Testament does Jeebus say anything about homosexuality. If it were that important, you'd think Jeebus would at least mention it.

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RE: Gay-to-Straight Theory - 8/6/2009 2:52:02 PM

pixidustpet

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NightTigress

Speaking from experience, the bible says no man shall lay beside another and that marriage is the binding of a man to a woman. This can make it very hard for gay and bi people in the church as well as with there own faith. I am sure if my father ever found out I was bi he would try sending me to someone to "fix" me. It is because of this among other things that I am struggling with my faith as well as hating religion.

old testament. jesus said he came to complete the law, so wouldnt that mean the old testament rules just dont count any longer? because i know for myself i'm not giving up my shrimps for NObody, and there are plenty of churches in lousiana which raise funds by doing a crawfish boil....or new england diners featuring lobster.

if you're going to shriek down brimstone for one offense, you need to shriek it down for all of it. and yeah, i *do* understand the turmoil religion can cause a person...its why i'm out of the southern baptist churches and am a happy heathen now.

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RE: Gay-to-Straight Theory - 8/6/2009 3:10:20 PM

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Just a warning to all, be careful of what you quote, leave out half of the quote and the meaning is changed, I know this because it has happened to me too many times before. for example Pixi you talked about Jesus completing the law, well here is the full quote.

Matthew 5:17-20
"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven."

I am not too sure what to make of this as it counteracts almost every way of thinking in modern times, but ya. I really hope I am not offending anybody, this has been something I have been thinking about a lot lately so I am hoping I can hear other opinions on it.

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RE: Gay-to-Straight Theory - 8/6/2009 4:07:29 PM

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Well, duh!

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RE: Gay-to-Straight Theory - 8/6/2009 4:19:28 PM

MsFlutter

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NightTigress

Just a warning to all, be careful of what you quote, leave out half of the quote and the meaning is changed, I know this because it has happened to me too many times before. for example Pixi you talked about Jesus completing the law, well here is the full quote.

Matthew 5:17-20
"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven."

I am not too sure what to make of this as it counteracts almost every way of thinking in modern times, but ya. I really hope I am not offending anybody, this has been something I have been thinking about a lot lately so I am hoping I can hear other opinions on it.

I'm rusty but were not the Pharisees hypocrites on some level?

(no - that wasnt me being pissy - I'm related to a minister and THEY said that)

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RE: Gay-to-Straight Theory - 8/6/2009 7:01:51 PM

DesFIP

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NightTigress

Speaking from experience, the bible says no man shall lay beside another and that marriage is the binding of a man to a woman. This can make it very hard for gay and bi people in the church as well as with there own faith. I am sure if my father ever found out I was bi he would try sending me to someone to "fix" me. It is because of this among other things that I am struggling with my faith as well as hating religion.

Care to cite it? Or is that New Testament?

According to my Rabbi, Reconstructionist, the quote most people use to condemn homosexuality is the one that talks about not doing unnatural things. Most people say that homosexuality is unnatural and therefore a sin. Reconstructionists interpret this as not doing things that are unnatural for you and therefore a homosexual who didn't embrace him or herself is being unnatural. My understanding is that Quakers tend towards this as well.

Homosexuality in birds have been proven to help the genes get passed along. If there are more adult birds feeding the nestlings and protecting them, there is higher odds your family genes will live and be passed on.

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RE: Gay-to-Straight Theory - 8/6/2009 8:55:58 PM

slaveboyforyou

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quote:

It's mentioned only in the Old Testament. Nowhere in the New Testament does Jeebus say anything about homosexuality. If it were that important, you'd think Jeebus would at least mention it.

Actually, that's not true. Homosexuality is condemned in Romans chapter 1, verses 26-27:

quote:

"For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence [sic] of their error which was meet."

Also Jesus said (according to the Bible) "my father is the same yesterday, today, and forever." I don't remember what book that is found in. I just remember it off the top of my head. It's been widely interpreted as meaning that the Old Testament rules still apply.

So, Christianity does condemn homosexuality. I'm not endorsing that condemnation. I'm not a Christian, and I disagree with that condemnation absolutely. But I tell my friends that still want to cling to Christianity.....the Bible does condemn homosexuality. You can't get around that; it's there. It's in all Abrahamic religions.

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RE: Gay-to-Straight Theory - 8/6/2009 9:57:42 PM

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Homosexuality has only taken place in every race and culture through out the world and history. There has to be something "natural" about it for this behavior to keep reoccuring. Even when Anti Gay groups traveled to America and began colonizing, trials had to take place on homosexuality and other sex acts that was against the groups beliefs. These acts started has towns grew and off spring began to get curious about their sexuality.

Choice versus the will of our genetics. What a controversy. We have so many people with signs "God made me GAY!"

As for the bible, most of Mosaic/Old Testimate law was made for sanitization purposes. I eat pork, shell fish, and parr foods. Sex had a whole other set of issuse. According to Hewbrew Text that didn't make it into the bible, Adam ended his first marriage with Lilith because she wanted to be on top. Depending of who is writting and thinking of what, sex was suppose to be used for only making off spring. Be fruitfull and multiply. For Moses and the Jews to conquer the Promise Land, everyone needed to produce off spring as much as possible to build its army. Homosexuality had no place with increasing an army's numbers. Homosexuality could have been originaly made a sin because you could not muliply your race. On top of that, the whole dick in a bung hole, has never sounded very clean. With so much Kosher Laws being broken by Christians, why can't homosexuality be okay in the Christian environment?

Correct me if I'm wrong but I think the bible's first tale of homosexuality or atleast curiosity comes from the tale of Noah's Ark. As Noah is drunk, passed out, and naked, his son walks in and looks upon him. Whatever being "looked upon" refers to, makes Noah such a homophobe, that he curses his son.

Forget Petter, Paul, the deciples, and the pope. It was Jesus who resended much of the old testiment by saying to follow the Ten Commandments, Love thy neighbor, and the Golden Rule. You should also obey the law of your land. However, it's not like those laws can never be changed.

Whatever the case, homosexuality goes back and forth as being catagerized as a "sin" and a "not recomended practice." It's a tough call and who am I to judge? Every gay and bi christian out there is taking a step of faith to find out the truth in the end when they meet their maker. I pray that their lives are seen as good.

Anyways, as for making yourself straight, I can force myself to eat grape fruit

. However, I never heared anyone say "I use to be gay." and done away with all their gaydar manner.

This reminds me of the Queer as Folk episode "You can change, you can change, you can change!" Yeah, just keep clicking your slipper heals together.

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RE: Gay-to-Straight Theory - 8/7/2009 12:44:42 AM

VanityFix

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i basicly have the same view as the religous types in the gay scenerio, pick a team.
you have a religion that says your a sin or w/e for being gay. your conflicted if you want both the religious crap and sweet sweet homo lovin. the differance between me and them is i think gay is the better, healthier choice they think their religion is.
i think adjusting your belief system to have god love you beats adjusting yourself for god, thats a factor of why i threw the old cross in a ditch a decade and some ago.

good luck to anyone in this boat out there, may the pink and black triangles be with you.

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RE: Gay-to-Straight Theory - 8/7/2009 3:02:38 AM

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Belief should not change to suit the people, it should be what people feel is right within them. If you believe you best serve HaShem (or whatever you call him/her) by being with someone of the same sex then that is what is right for you. I think we are truer to HaShem when we are true to ourselves and worship him in our own way. In the end it is not a bunch of humans that pass judgement on our souls but HaShem. If we lie to ourselves we lie to HaShem. Be true to the path laid before you and to yourself and HaShem and you will not walk wrong.

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RE: Gay-to-Straight Theory - 8/7/2009 5:55:05 AM

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To me this comes down to context and interpretation.

Let's take for an example a guy who wants to get married for the purpose of having children and creating a family. Now to me it strikes me that if he wants to engage in sexual intercourse with the specific aim of creating children he's probably not going to get very far by marrying another guy or by having sex with him. In this context then that bit in the Bible about marriage being between a man and a woman to me seems excellent advice and perfectly reasonable.

But not everybody has sex with the sole intention of procreating and having children. In fact I would even suggest that such couples are in a definite minority and I would even suggest that probably more of us came to be as a result of jiggy jiggy not going as it should - whether it be a drink too many, miscalculation over 'the time of the month', a condom accidentally slipping off, whatever - and we were an unforeseen consequence of some nookie.

And this is how it should be, because if we did seek to have children every time we have nookie then the entire human race would have died out long ago through overpopulation and overcrowding.

However to ensure longevity and survival of the human race I believe that encoded in our genes are such things as homosexuality, mosaicism, intersexuality, transsexualism, and so on.

This explains my own personal view that kink is an integral part of human nature and that deriving pleasure from sexual practices and kinks isn't wrong, but what we do naturally.

But this is my own individual interpretation which seems at variance with the understanding and interpretation of many who follow the three main Abrahamic religions which explains why I'm no longer a Christian and haven't been for donkey's years.

I share the view of Desmond Tutu that these double standards create a system of apartheid which excludes non-heterosexuals (and sometimes women) which in spite of science and psychology the Church and many of its followers seem to be quite comfortable with.

But this happens not just with religion but with any pattern of thinking where the belief system is rigid and set in stone. However to me the best beliefs are ones which are fluid and flexible being shaped by the truth, learning and eventually wisdom which I would hope isn't my own individual view but one shared by a vast majority of people.

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