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Past baggage, present relationships. - 7/24/2009 10:56:25 AM   
LillyoftheVally


Posts: 1826
Joined: 7/22/2009
Status: offline 		Anyone over the age of 13 has some form of baggage, I am of the opinion that how you carry it is what matters. However we have perceptions about baggage how that will surface in personality.

If people process things differently and events affect their personality differently then is it prudent to make assumptions? If someone tells you about a trauma that they have experienced do you then decide what they do or do not need from a relationship or do you follow their lead.

Vulnerability is an interesting concept, and a term that has been used in relation to me on occasion but I do not think that I am weak or that I need to be told what I should be protected from. It seems often that people do this though. However maybe it is a case of my perception of self being different to the one I project on to others, maybe the way that we carry baggage may actually be different to the way that we think that we do.

So my questions then are if a partner tells you about an event does it change your perception of them and therefore you treatment of them?

_____________________________

'My doctor says that I have a malformed public-duty gland and a natural deficiency in moral fibre, and that I am therefore excused from saving Universes.'

Nah I am not happy to see you either
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RE: Past baggage, present relationships. - 7/24/2009 11:26:35 AM   
Drakontos


Posts: 167
Joined: 5/20/2009
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quote:

So my questions then are if a partner tells you about an event does it change your perception of them and therefore you treatment of them?

This is Drakontos

Yes. A persons past does change my perception of them, and it most definitly affects how I treat/interact with them.
( A girl who was raped as a child is going to be treated differently than one who was not; or one who was physically/mentally/emotionally abused will again, be treated differently than one who was not )

In addition to that, how that same person deals with their own past/baggage makes a huge difference in how I approach/interact/treat them also.

_____________________________

Drakontos
zaphira

Live with honor; serve with grace and beauty

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RE: Past baggage, present relationships. - 7/24/2009 11:27:31 AM   
LillyoftheVally


Posts: 1826
Joined: 7/22/2009
Status: offline 		Ok but do you treat everyone who has been raped/abused in the same way?

_____________________________

'My doctor says that I have a malformed public-duty gland and a natural deficiency in moral fibre, and that I am therefore excused from saving Universes.'

Nah I am not happy to see you either

(in reply to Drakontos)
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RE: Past baggage, present relationships. - 7/24/2009 11:28:53 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		Of course we all have baggage. Imagine how boring we would be without it!

For me, it is how a person deals with their stuff that matters, not the existence of it.


_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

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RE: Past baggage, present relationships. - 7/24/2009 11:32:39 AM   
LillyoftheVally


Posts: 1826
Joined: 7/22/2009
Status: offline 		^^

I agree

_____________________________

'My doctor says that I have a malformed public-duty gland and a natural deficiency in moral fibre, and that I am therefore excused from saving Universes.'

Nah I am not happy to see you either

(in reply to LaTigresse)
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RE: Past baggage, present relationships. - 7/24/2009 11:33:48 AM   
TurboJugend


Posts: 481
Joined: 6/15/2009
Status: offline 		With out bagage you would be a different person.
The partner you have now..choose you ( or you him) for what you are now.

(in reply to LillyoftheVally)
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RE: Past baggage, present relationships. - 7/24/2009 11:34:36 AM   
LillyoftheVally


Posts: 1826
Joined: 7/22/2009
Status: offline 		What if they choose you for your baggage, the so called white knight syndrome?

_____________________________

'My doctor says that I have a malformed public-duty gland and a natural deficiency in moral fibre, and that I am therefore excused from saving Universes.'

Nah I am not happy to see you either

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RE: Past baggage, present relationships. - 7/24/2009 11:35:36 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		That rarely ends well.....

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to LillyoftheVally)
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RE: Past baggage, present relationships. - 7/24/2009 11:35:40 AM   
TurboJugend


Posts: 481
Joined: 6/15/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyoftheVally

What if they choose you for your baggage, the so called white knight syndrome?


uhmmm my first remark would be......not so decent I know....they are sick....

on the other hand..why would it be bad if they want to take care of you because of that?

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RE: Past baggage, present relationships. - 7/24/2009 11:36:18 AM   
Padriag


Posts: 2633
Joined: 3/30/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyoftheVally

So my questions then are if a partner tells you about an event does it change your perception of them and therefore you treatment of them?

Everything a person does or says affects our perception of them... and possibly how we interact with them.  Basic principle of human behavior.

Somethings may, in my opinion, warrant more patience or understanding on my part.  But over the years, I've found that past trauma's in the long run are not a good reason to treat someone differently.  I'll take the already mentioned case of rape as an example.

If I know someone was the victim of rape, initially I may have more patience in some areas because they may, as a result, have difficulty doing some things (i.e. one girl I knew had a real problem being tied up as a result of a rape).  But, I will also push them to confront those issues and move past them.  As time goes by I'll have less patience.  The goal is to overcome whatever obstacles the trauma caused them, to be completely free of it, which in my view is the healthiest thing they can do for themselves.

_____________________________

Padriag

A stern discipline pervades all nature, which is a little cruel so that it may be very kind - Edmund Spencer

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RE: Past baggage, present relationships. - 7/24/2009 11:37:57 AM   
LillyoftheVally


Posts: 1826
Joined: 7/22/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

That rarely ends well.....



I agree, but it happens. My ex said that he had this and was attracted to me because he and I quote 'felt sorry for me' and that to me was an incorrect assumption about how I have handled trauma, the fact that something difficult happens in your life does not mean you need to be rescued.

_____________________________

'My doctor says that I have a malformed public-duty gland and a natural deficiency in moral fibre, and that I am therefore excused from saving Universes.'

Nah I am not happy to see you either

(in reply to LaTigresse)
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RE: Past baggage, present relationships. - 7/24/2009 11:51:12 AM   
TurboJugend


Posts: 481
Joined: 6/15/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyoftheVally

What if they choose you for your baggage, the so called white knight syndrome?


a second thought

what ever the reason is..they choose you and you have the bagage always with you.
there are so many reason to think of why they choose you..perhaps it is a bit of everything.
there is no formula for which relation would work and which not.
And is the white knight syndrom in their head or yours?
It is hard to judge. ( any partner would feel terrible for you)
But aslong they are there for you...and you feel wanted..they are happy...it is good not?

< Message edited by TurboJugend -- 7/24/2009 11:52:56 AM >

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RE: Past baggage, present relationships. - 7/24/2009 11:53:10 AM   
rideemwet


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Joined: 6/12/2009
Status: offline
quote:

maybe the way that we carry baggage may actually be different to the way that we think that we do.


People usually view themselves differently then others view of them. 

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RE: Past baggage, present relationships. - 7/24/2009 11:59:28 AM   
daintydimples


Posts: 967
Joined: 7/6/2009
Status: offline 		I think some dominants have what I call a messiah syndrome. It's a version of "I'm okay, but you're not (but I know how to fix you)."

This dovetails nicely with the "damsel in distress" syndrome found in many subs.

For obvious reasons, this can work for awhile. But it can never work for long, since you can never really "fix" someone.




_____________________________

Some soften by the forced reflection that comes from loss; others harden. Which are you?




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RE: Past baggage, present relationships. - 7/24/2009 12:04:55 PM   
TurboJugend


Posts: 481
Joined: 6/15/2009
Status: offline 		Hmmm I don't know. As a partner for some one who has bagage....it is hard too.
The bagage can't be ignored...but you are not allowed to give it to much attention either..
There are times you have to balance constantly.
What to do?
Partners are no professionals who can make the past disappear...they can just be there.

< Message edited by TurboJugend -- 7/24/2009 12:05:53 PM >

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RE: Past baggage, present relationships. - 7/24/2009 1:22:55 PM   
Kalista07


Posts: 4240
Joined: 7/1/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyoftheVally
My ex said that he had this and was attracted to me because he and I quote 'felt sorry for me'


Lilly,
i'm just going to take a stab out in the dark and guess was this statement said perhaps towards the end of the relationship?? i highly doubt the validity of this statement. And if, in fact, it is true...This really says much more about Him than about You.  i mean let's just think about it for a second...So, He entered a relationship with a person based on the concept of 'Him feeling "sorry" for her'?  In what kind of twisted world would that even sound like someone who would make an attractive mate?  i can not even grasp that as a basis for a relationship....
But trust me in this, Lilly, i have been in the place it seems You are at...The place where You have been so fucked up and fucked over that You don't know what's true anymore..Where what one man tell's You must be gospel...Because...well....why would he lie.....i mean...come on.....
i think the reality is there is no black and white...cut and dry answer to this question here... The reality is every person is different.  In the past i had a great deal of baggage...According to some people, i've had more than my fair share of baggage... A couple of years ago i put myself in a situation to drastically increase that amount of baggage and trauma.  Within a month after having that occur i met the wonderful, loving, kind, compassion, honest, and greatest man i've ever been in a relationship with!!! It went against EVERYTHING i knew to get into a relationship with Him so soon after.. But, the reality was even as i was entering that relationship i was doing all the work i could to make sure i would not allow myself to be treated the way i had been treated in the  past. i was making sure i had cleaned up the wreckage of the past. Along those same lines He was honest and upfront with me... This did put somewhat of a hold on our D/s or M/s relationship but the reality is we have such an awesome relationship otherwise i could not possibly care any less. One thing that i shared with Him in the first few times we got together in person was something the last JAMF had tried to brain wash me into thinking which was:  that i was born and raised so that my father could rape me on a daily basis...That was my objective in life..And i should be grateful to my mother for facilitating this to occur in my life..... i wish i could sit here and say that did not affect me...But, sadly it did..Until i took that power back and now it makes me want to both puke and laugh simultaneously...
Lilly...i would encourage You to stop looking outside of Yourself for validation.. At the end of the day, You are only left with You.. Only You can know if You are working on these things.. One last thing..One guy that i had been in a 'vanilla' long term relationship with who screwed most things that walked in addition to me...definitely had the white knight syndrome...So, my absolute fear was that He must too...  In fact, it's taken almost 2 years for me to be convinced that He has no ulterior motives and loves me for me, unconditionally and all..The difference? With Him when i need to talk about the recent rape or something...He will hold me, wipe the tears out of my face, run his fngers through my hair...the other guy? would've tried to fuck it all way!!
Kali




_____________________________

“Love me when I least deserve it, because that's when I really need it.”
~~Sweedish Proverb


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RE: Past baggage, present relationships. - 7/24/2009 1:53:38 PM   
LillyoftheVally


Posts: 1826
Joined: 7/22/2009
Status: offline 		Thank you very much Kalista, an awful lot of what you wrote rang very very true for me. I think that one thing I am learning at the moment is that I need to back off for a bit so I get to a stage where statements like that do not make me question everything about myself. I have written a couple of topics on this same person and I know that it has really made me pause for a moment and seriously doubt who I am. The part about not looking outside for validation is something I think I need to work on, I think it is something that everyone does to an extent, what others think of them means something. For some people I think that holds more weight than others. Ironically I believe the words that stick with me most are from the battle fields of break ups, I don't know why. I do know it is almost always easier to believe the bad press about yourself. Thank you again. :)

_____________________________

'My doctor says that I have a malformed public-duty gland and a natural deficiency in moral fibre, and that I am therefore excused from saving Universes.'

Nah I am not happy to see you either

(in reply to Kalista07)
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RE: Past baggage, present relationships. - 7/24/2009 2:03:26 PM   
Drakontos


Posts: 167
Joined: 5/20/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyoftheVally

Ok but do you treat everyone who has been raped/abused in the same way?

No. They too, are treated differently.

You could say that every individual is treated differently, and to an extent, you would be correct. However, when I come across someone who has been abused in some way; they are treated with more...gentleness...I guess is a good word to use.

_____________________________

Drakontos
zaphira

Live with honor; serve with grace and beauty

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RE: Past baggage, present relationships. - 7/24/2009 2:42:53 PM   
Apocalypso


Posts: 1104
Joined: 4/20/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyoftheVally
So my questions then are if a partner tells you about an event does it change your perception of them and therefore you treatment of them?
It depends what you mean.  It makes me more inclined to err on the side of caution with things I think could possibly be triggered by mental links with the specific event.  But all I mean like that is that I'm more likely to check beforehand.  What I don't do and would react very abrasively to if someone did it to me, is assume that I know what the effects of an event are going to be without being told.  Or, even worse, ignore what I've been told and assume that the person I'm with doesn't know what they're talking about.  If I'm with someone, for me, part of wanting to be with them is the fact that I respect them enough to know their own mind.

quote:

I think it is something that everyone does to an extent, what others think of them means something. For some people I think that holds more weight than others.


Absolutely.  Unless you're a clinical sociopath.  People express that in different ways, and the specifics are very variable, but the basic principle is almost universal.

To speak from personal experience, that applies just as much (if not more) to those like myself who like to style themselves as 'outsiders'.  Firstly, pretty much every self-styled iconoclast I've met has actually been very reliant on the validation of their own social circle.  And, although most of us don't like to admit it, we need the 'mainstream' to thematically rail against.  Far more than they need us.  There's no point in swanning round playing James Dean if you don't have a metaphorical 'square society' to not understand you properly.


_____________________________

If you're going to quote from the Book of Revelation,
Don't keep calling it the "Book of Revelations",
There's no "s", it's the Book of Revelation,
As revealed to Saint John the Divine.

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RE: Past baggage, present relationships. - 7/24/2009 5:46:37 PM   
Prinsexx


Posts: 4584
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

Of course we all have baggage. Imagine how boring we would be without it!

For me, it is how a person deals with their stuff that matters, not the existence of it.


What most people seem to refer to as baggage is emotional baggage.The main way I deal with mine is to transform it into writing. Every negative experience I have had gets transformed sooner or later into some form of writing: mostly creative shorts (around one and half thousand words) or teaching and lecturing material. I don;t analyze how the process happens but I trust that it always will. Dealing with writer's block is difficult but to overcome this I write at least 400 words a day and revise it later if need be.
I court excitement and experience for this reason. The mundane is a killer.
I court relationships that create excitement and I do have a pattern to court relationships that feed my emotional masochism... knowing that this masochism will get transformed into creativity.
I suppose this has caught those I have had relationships with off guard. Especially those who do not have any creative outlet for emotional turmoil. Because I do have a mechanism for dealing wih emotional turmoil I don't carry it around with me for long. I simply turn out looking like a great survivor. Which I am. I am grateful for life. For being alive. For life offering me the luxury of emotional baggage. That's what emoyoinal baggage is: it's a luxury. If I were imprisioned and could not feel the pain and that the pain brings pleasure then I would know I were indeed imprisioned.
Does that make dominants treat me with caution? No. I don't think so. I offer no likits. It creates great stories.. 


_____________________________

Owner of asterion

Metawhore.... the sound of a metaphore when gagged
Free woman
Resident thread finisher
To my stalker:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LN2lP_7J7GI&feature=fvwrel

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