Is it bad?? (Full Version)

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nicolemtgirlsub -> Is it bad?? (7/14/2009 8:25:17 PM)

To express desires to others as a sub--or does it always come off as topping from the bottom...:)



Sunnyfey -> RE: Is it bad?? (7/14/2009 8:28:55 PM)

Expressing your thoughts and Desires is not TFTB, it's being honest with yourself and your partner. As long as your doing it respectfully, in accordance with whatever role you have chosen for yourself, then no, your not TFTB.

And fuck em if they tell you, you are. If the Dom cant take a respectfully worded request from a submissive as just that, a request and vocalization of a want,need or desire, then he's an asshole, not a Dom.



Esinn -> RE: Is it bad?? (7/14/2009 8:31:35 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: nicolemtgirlsub

To express desires to others as a sub--or does it always come off as topping from the bottom...:)


This topic has been raped.  Unintelligent people who are unable to effectively communicate or express themselves during a scene or life is where the problem is.

No, Nicole listen, learn & express.  An NWA song comes to mind.  The main time I believe for expression though if you are 24/7 is during aftercare.  Just remember you are the submissive.

I do not believe most tops want doormats.  Without knowing the bottom the top can not be in full control.



caelestis -> RE: Is it bad?? (7/14/2009 8:42:41 PM)

As long as there is no expectation that what you want will happen exactly when you want it, no, I see no problem in relation to it being topping from the bottom.



DarkSteven -> RE: Is it bad?? (7/14/2009 9:44:56 PM)

Depends.  There's a big difference between "I like cuddling and need that or things will not work between us" and "For the last time, what will it take to make you *!#*%#ers understand that I need CUDDLING, dammit!"

Also, telling me of three hard limits is fine.  Telling me about 73 of 'em is not.



HeavansKeeper -> RE: Is it bad?? (7/14/2009 11:07:50 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: nicolemtgirlsub

To express desires to others as a sub--or does it always come off as topping from the bottom...:)


First let me say that any concoction of rules and regulations two consenting adults involve themselves in is fine. Dominant bottom and service top? Have at it.

Whether the goal is mutually assured satisfaction or a more BDSM porn style relationship (most successful long term relationships borrow from both sides) I believe topping from the bottom must be allowed. The top must allow it to occur. Even the brattiest bottom can be gagged and told "I'm doing what I want, I'll unplug your mouth when I need it." There are alternatives that are similarly effective and slightly less crude.

There are exceptions, though. If the play is very casual, the investment in the "relationship" is very weak, the bottom might just tap out and walk away if they're not getting what they wanted. Just because we flirted and decided who's on top does not make it a 100% TPE, use me for blowjobs and discard me relationship.

Personally.. I like a mouthy submissive. I like someone who's not afraid to tell me what they feel, what they want, what they need, what they enjoyed, what they didn't. Does them telling me guarantee it happens? No. (Needs are a special case, of course). This information is like condoms, guns, and spare keys: Rather have it and not need it, than need it and not have it. (That said, I don't own a gun...)




Arpig -> RE: Is it bad?? (7/14/2009 11:51:03 PM)

It is NEVER wrong in any relationship, regardless of the dynamic, to express your desires. How you express them and if you should expect them to be met is dependant on the particular dynamic in place. But it is always OK to tell your other(s) the things you would like, how the Hell else are they supposed to know, unless of course you are involved with Carnac or Kreskin.



Missokyst -> RE: Is it bad?? (7/15/2009 6:05:37 AM)

This is actually helpful for me.  Everytime I see some sub or dom say "you must do it respectfully" it makes me cringe.  What the heck IS respectfully and why must one frame every thought as if what you say could insult your partner?  I am always honest, in my view that is being respectful to my personal code of ethics and showing my true colors to my partner.  When I see people say they must do things respectfully it makes me feel like they are constantly walking on eggshells, at least until fully trained in their partners likes/dislikes.
For a long time the phrase you must do it respectfully made me feel as if many dominants were like children that you had to be always mindful of their moods lest something you say set off a floor kicking tantrum.
What you say down here is reasonable.  I can relate to the honest expression and also to the aversion to nagging.
To the OP, regarding topping from the bottom, if you find you are with a dominant who thinks anything you ask for is topping from the bottom, run.
Kyst
quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

Depends.  There's a big difference between "I like cuddling and need that or things will not work between us" and "For the last time, what will it take to make you *!#*%#ers understand that I need CUDDLING, dammit!"

Also, telling me of three hard limits is fine.  Telling me about 73 of 'em is not.




beargonewild -> RE: Is it bad?? (7/15/2009 6:22:27 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: nicolemtgirlsub

To express desires to others as a sub--or does it always come off as topping from the bottom...:)


How can expressing what your wants, needs and desires to a dominant type be considered topping from the bottom? The only way the other person will know what is pleasing and what isn't is by the sub indicating such. As many have already pointed out, a dominant can't read minds.



sirsholly -> RE: Is it bad?? (7/15/2009 6:35:52 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: nicolemtgirlsub

To express desires to others as a sub--or does it always come off as topping from the bottom...:)
it is so very necessary, in my opinion. Just remember, as Dark Steven said, to do it in the right way [:)]



dreamerdreaming -> RE: Is it bad?? (7/15/2009 6:38:39 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: nicolemtgirlsub

To express desires to others as a sub--or does it always come off as topping from the bottom...:)


If it always comes off as topping from the bottom, your dom is either very insecure, an asshole, clueless about how to dom you, or a combination of those.



oceanwinds -> RE: Is it bad?? (7/15/2009 6:48:40 AM)

I see no problem in requesting a desire, providing you say it straight forward verses trying to manipulate to get your needs.

oceanwinds



CreativeDominant -> RE: Is it bad?? (7/15/2009 7:33:56 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: nicolemtgirlsub

To express desires to others as a sub--or does it always come off as topping from the bottom...:)
It depends on the context of the situation.  Telling me in your profile that you want to play and this is how you want it...no sexual contact at all, I want the dominant to tie me, force me to my knees and make me do all kinds of nasty things like crawling and make me beg him to hurt me and touch me (but of course he won't since I said I don't want sex) is, to me, words coming from someone who might be a submissive but who is acting in a "bottom" fashion.  They are stating not just the limits of what they will do (spanking, etc ) and won't do (sex) but also how they expect the play to go.

That is different, in my opinion, than stating in a respectful manner what you've found works best for you or asking respectfully for something you'd like done to you while recognizing that the control of how that happens and whether or not you get everything you ask for resides with the dominant you are asking for play.



maia09 -> RE: Is it bad?? (7/15/2009 7:48:45 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: nicolemtgirlsub

To express desires to others as a sub--or does it always come off as topping from the bottom...:)


Like anything, it depends on how it's expressed. i am permitted to make my desires/needs known to my Master - but not demand them.



CreativeDominant -> RE: Is it bad?? (7/15/2009 8:02:38 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Missokyst

This is actually helpful for me.  Everytime I see some sub or dom say "you must do it respectfully" it makes me cringe.  What the heck IS respectfully and why must one frame every thought as if what you say could insult your partner?  I am always honest, in my view that is being respectful to my personal code of ethics and showing my true colors to my partner.  When I see people say they must do things respectfully it makes me feel like they are constantly walking on eggshells, at least until fully trained in their partners likes/dislikes.
For a long time the phrase you must do it respectfully made me feel as if many dominants were like children that you had to be always mindful of their moods lest something you say set off a floor kicking tantrum.
What you say down here is reasonable.  I can relate to the honest expression and also to the aversion to nagging.
To the OP, regarding topping from the bottom, if you find you are with a dominant who thinks anything you ask for is topping from the bottom, run.
Kyst
quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

Depends.  There's a big difference between "I like cuddling and need that or things will not work between us" and "For the last time, what will it take to make you *!#*%#ers understand that I need CUDDLING, dammit!"

Also, telling me of three hard limits is fine.  Telling me about 73 of 'em is not.


Tis funny how life experiences, upbringing, etc. can result in differing perspectives.  When I've told a submissive to ask or request things respectfully, I've always had...and have stated so as to demonstrate...something similar in mind to what Steven states above in the first statement as being respectful and have always had...and have stated so as to demonstrate...something similar in mind to what he states in the second statement as disrespectful.  I tend to look at nagging as a form of CONSTANT harangueing about something...it is not something that is said once, it is said over and over again in a disrespectful manner that turns it into nagging for me. 



variation30 -> RE: Is it bad?? (7/15/2009 8:21:39 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: nicolemtgirlsub

To express desires to others as a sub--or does it always come off as topping from the bottom...:)


it's not bad.



DesFIP -> RE: Is it bad?? (7/15/2009 9:29:05 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

Tis funny how life experiences, upbringing, etc. can result in differing perspectives.  When I've told a submissive to ask or request things respectfully, I've always had...and have stated so as to demonstrate...something similar in mind to what Steven states above in the first statement as being respectful and have always had...and have stated so as to demonstrate...something similar in mind to what he states in the second statement as disrespectful.  I tend to look at nagging as a form of CONSTANT harangueing about something...it is not something that is said once, it is said over and over again in a disrespectful manner that turns it into nagging for me. 



Nobody here will argue about this for the first expression of stated needs. But if you're told this, and tell her that you can and will cuddle with her then how is she to get her needs met if you don't follow through?

Would you prefer she simply never answers the phone again and tells all her friends that you're a liar and a wannabe or would you not prefer she express herself forcibly in an attempt to make you understand that you aren't doing what you said you would do?

Because if he says he'll do it, then he damn well needs to live up to his words.

Hijack aside, OP, anybody who says you telling him what you must have, what you won't tolerate, what you like and dislike is automatically the dreaded topping from the bottom is not someone you should be with. There are some real idiots out there. Stifling communication is always a bad thing.



Kalista07 -> RE: Is it bad?? (7/15/2009 9:56:45 AM)

This is something that i, personally, have struggled a great deal with...i have attributed it to spending to much time around online forums such as these. Because in places such as these some people are so quick to lump some people into categories of 'topping from the bottom' so we all know how evil and horrible it is. i will freely admit it is this concept that has led to the biggest breakdown in communication for us. He will ask me what i need/want/desire and i will get caught up in my head listening to all this crap about how i would be just topping from the bottom if i expressed any of these thoughts to Him..Finally i have hopefully gotten past this...
Good luck to you...Trust your instinct and trust your partner.
Kali



LyraLaLaurie -> RE: Is it bad?? (7/15/2009 11:53:46 AM)

I just like open communication.  I really don't mind being guided on how to lead someone into subspace...everyone is different, in how they get their, types of pain they like, and even physical injuries I shouldn't be poking around.  And intuition only goes so far.  However, getting a lot of blank stares, yellows and mouthing off from a sub is never helpful.  Like I said, intuition only goes so far.



Whiplashsmile4 -> RE: Is it bad?? (7/15/2009 1:10:38 PM)

Inheritently, there is nothing wrong to express desires. It all depends upon how you go about it. Also, how do you behave or react if your expressed desires don't get filled? One cavet just because you are in a D/s relationship does not mean it's the right D/s relationship for you. If you have a D/s relationship with a lot of struggle there are problems.



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