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RE: Responsiblity - 7/12/2009 12:11:03 PM   
agirl


Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: justme1980


quote:

ORIGINAL: LATEXBABY64

Holding people acountable

When we scene and something goes wrong should and dom or domme help pay for medical bill if they where not careful or lied about their experince in doing something
if so what is the best to resolve such a thing



I believe that the Dom/me is responsibile for the scene, If I am hurt directly or indirectly by something they did, they will be responsible for all medical bills resulting from that scene. If they fail to own up, four simple words
SEE YOU IN COURT


If that is the system in the US ....wouldn't it be a good idea to cover your OWN arse? If it's THAT big a deal....why even risk it? Sign some kind of *pre-nup-arse-whup* thing and be done with it?

agirl


(in reply to justme1980)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Responsiblity - 7/12/2009 1:24:25 PM   
IrishMist


Posts: 7480
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

I'd be surprised if you get a lot of play offers if you are unable to see YOUR personal responsibility in a scene.
No Top can read minds. Very few are medical doctors with a fully stocked ER at their disposal.
This is a game for grownups only. People who refuse to accept responsibility when they play, should maybe not be playing.
That said, sometimes shit happens in a scene, with no negiligence involved. I'd think responsibility for that should be shared.



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Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Responsiblity - 7/12/2009 1:25:21 PM   
CatdeMedici


Posts: 2257
Joined: 10/20/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: justme1980


quote:

ORIGINAL: LATEXBABY64

Holding people acountable

When we scene and something goes wrong should and dom or domme help pay for medical bill if they where not careful or lied about their experince in doing something
if so what is the best to resolve such a thing



I believe that the Dom/me is responsibile for the scene, If I am hurt directly or indirectly by something they did, they will be responsible for all medical bills resulting from that scene. If they fail to own up, four simple words
SEE YOU IN COURT

 
Do you assume any responsibility for yourself?

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(in reply to justme1980)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Responsiblity - 7/12/2009 1:32:43 PM   
Missokyst


Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
Status: offline 		I don't know about other states but here in CA, there is no fault insurance.  That is our own insurance pays, and we pay deductible.  It doesn't matter if that guy ran the stop light and smashed up my car or not. 
I am a very good driver, I know how to avoid accidents by watching the road and everything that might impact it.  I take responsibilty for my car insurance (largely because that is law), and I expect it to handle my injuries.  I don't have health insurance and  when accidents happen I know enough to recognise I have to rely on myself to handle what costs incur.
Kyst
quote:

ORIGINAL: LilKittenSub

Here's a thought... Every one of us that drives knows that we are taking a risk the second we get into our car and turn on the engine. As soon as we pull out onto the street or anywhere else with any traffic whatsoever, we are essentially agreeing to the possibility of being harmed during our time behind the wheel. If someone hits you and they are "at fault", you naturally expect them to help pay for any damages to your car as well as your own medical bills if you require hospitalization.

So why is it that so many in the BDSM community do not believe that both parties should take responsibility for any bills incurred as a result of an injury recieved during play? As responsible and consenting adults, we naturally expect both parties to take care of their responsibilities during the scene, but accidents happen in BDSM, just as they do in driving. The difference is, of course, that a lot of the accidents that can happen during a Scene are avoidable, if both parties are responsible. If one or the other becomes negligent, it is essentially the same as a driver not paying attention to the road because they're too busy switching the CD in their player or texting on their cell phone.

If a sub or a Dom(me) is hurt due to the negligence of another in the scene, the person who was negligent should be held responsible and expected to, at the very least, help pay for the medical bills they helped to cause; just as a negligent driver who hits another is expected to help pay for the damages done to the car they struck and any medical bills the victim of their negligence incurs as a result of the accident.

Please note that I'm saying the road goes both ways. If the Dom(me) is injured in any way as a result of the sub's negligence, the sub should pay, just as the Dom(me) should pay if the sub is injured as a result of their negligence.

(in reply to LilKittenSub)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Responsiblity - 7/12/2009 1:40:05 PM   
agirl


Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline 		Out of curiousity, from a brit......... why wouldn't you have health insurance?

agirl



(in reply to Missokyst)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Responsiblity - 7/12/2009 2:41:15 PM   
Missokyst


Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
Status: offline 		It is freakishly expensive for one.  I am self employed and for me the entire cost of providing for care would be on me.  And for another for the most part I don't get sick.  I don't have headaches, women problems, I am fairly rapid in self healing, even if when I have gotten say.. a yeast infection it disappears in a day.  My family has outrageously long life spans, and while I don't think I will last anywhere near 100 yrs, I come from good genes.  The biggest injury I have had tore my back shoulder muscle from the bone and while that is permanant and often painful, I don't use drugs for it nor have I ever.  And I went back to work within a month.
I can afford things that are unexpected, if something should need doctors care.  If there was insurance to cover cosmetic items like a nice tummy tuck, an eye lift or something like that.. I would be all over it in a heartbeat!
Kyst
quote:

ORIGINAL: agirl

Out of curiousity, from a brit......... why wouldn't you have health insurance?

agirl





< Message edited by Missokyst -- 7/12/2009 2:42:51 PM >

(in reply to agirl)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Responsiblity - 7/12/2009 3:04:40 PM   
agirl


Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Missokyst

It is freakishly expensive for one.  I am self employed and for me the entire cost of providing for care would be on me.  And for another for the most part I don't get sick.  I don't have headaches, women problems, I am fairly rapid in self healing, even if when I have gotten say.. a yeast infection it disappears in a day.  My family has outrageously long life spans, and while I don't think I will last anywhere near 100 yrs, I come from good genes.  The biggest injury I have had tore my back shoulder muscle from the bone and while that is permanant and often painful, I don't use drugs for it nor have I ever.  And I went back to work within a month.
I can afford things that are unexpected, if something should need doctors care.  If there was insurance to cover cosmetic items like a nice tummy tuck, an eye lift or something like that.. I would be all over it in a heartbeat!
Kyst
quote:

ORIGINAL: agirl

Out of curiousity, from a brit......... why wouldn't you have health insurance?

agirl






What if you had children , and they were poorly and needed antibiotics etc. What if you needed medication for a bladder infection, thrush , cystitis...what about when you give birth , if you need   entinox, pethadine, epidural and so on...... What if the baby  is unwell, after it's born ? Who pays for things like the guthrie test and so on.

Who pays for what, when and why?

agirl

(in reply to Missokyst)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Responsiblity - 7/12/2009 3:15:51 PM   
VampiresLair


Posts: 1307
Joined: 9/3/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: justme1980
I believe that the Dom/me is responsibile for the scene, If I am hurt directly or indirectly by something they did, they will be responsible for all medical bills resulting from that scene.


What if you are sceneing with a sadist? You are expected to be hurt, so are they supposed to know the difference in your body between a good hurt and a bad hurt? If you shift and something falls where it shouldnt have because of YOUR actions, you really think the dominant should be responsible for that? They told you not to move,and you did anyway and its still their fault?

If it is the dominants fault for an injury because they were negligent or irrisponsbile, or even worse wreckless, then yes they should be held responsible for part or all. Wrecklessness they should undoubtably pay all, since they willfully did something stupid that they knew could result in injury and they made the choice to pursue it anyway.

A simple accident, a subs mistake rather than a doms, and other shit that comes up its the subs responsibility since they agreed to be in the position in the first place. The old saying is If you cant stand the heat, get out of the kitchen. If you cannot take care of any eventuality that might arrise, then you shouldnt be involving yourself .

DV


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Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Responsiblity - 7/12/2009 3:31:54 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LATEXBABY64

Holding people acountable

When we scene and something goes wrong should and dom or domme help pay for medical bill if they where not careful or lied about their experince in doing something
if so what is the best to resolve such a thing



I do play according to RACK.  The risk aware part is kind of important to Me. 

If I lied to you, not giving you the proper information to make an informed decision about wanting to play, I'm responsible.

If I said I had more experience than I really did, you bought it, and something went wrong due to lack of experience, I'm responsible.

If I wasn't careful, but I gave you an impression that I would be when I wasn't, I'm responsible.

All of these things I think would be seen as violating a verbal contract (negotiation) prior to playing.  I didn't fulfill My end.

From the other side, if there was some kind of accident, that I could not have prevented because it was an accepted risk common to that type of play, I would probably pay half, due to My own sense of moral obligation.


_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to LATEXBABY64)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Responsiblity - 7/12/2009 3:50:54 PM   
beargonewild


Posts: 22716
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LATEXBABY64

Holding people acountable

When we scene and something goes wrong should and dom or domme help pay for medical bill if they where not careful or lied about their experince in doing something
if so what is the best to resolve such a thing




If the Dom offers to help cover medical costs then I may accept. It still boils down to the fact that I accepted to scene with that dom, I have make myself accountable for my actions which means that the dom is NOT responsible for injuries I make incur.


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(in reply to LATEXBABY64)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Responsiblity - 7/12/2009 3:59:32 PM   
Missokyst


Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
Status: offline 		I am over 50 my children are grown and very healthy and I don't plan on having any more.  When I had them I was married and covered by his insurance.  And even then.. I did not require much in the way of health care.  My ex husband never paid me child support so I always took it as my responsibility to provide.  Thankfully in our state he was required to pay for their health care.  As they grew I even put those that wished to go, through college.  I don't get bladder infections, my occasional yeast infections clear quickly on their own.  My blood is disgustingly rich in iron and I donate frequently.  Once a year I pay for mammograms, every few years I do the pap smear.  I just ride out the pain in my back, which either feels like gremlins tearing my flesh or like an elephant sitting on my back.  I don't do pain killers and only occasionally take tylenol for swelling.  I was fortunate to have enough money to shell out the cash when my daughter, as an adult, needed 28 stitches in the emergency room. And I scrape up the cash for dental work which I HATE. In general if I need money, I can find it.
I am aware this is unusual and I am very thankful for the blessings of health, decent children, good genes and the knowlege that I can take care of myself.  And when I cannot.. well.. thats why I raised such caring and decent children.  We think of things as a co-op here.  And I am still the highest bread winner.
Kyst


quote:

ORIGINAL: agirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: Missokyst

It is freakishly expensive for one.  I am self employed and for me the entire cost of providing for care would be on me.  And for another for the most part I don't get sick.  I don't have headaches, women problems, I am fairly rapid in self healing, even if when I have gotten say.. a yeast infection it disappears in a day.  My family has outrageously long life spans, and while I don't think I will last anywhere near 100 yrs, I come from good genes.  The biggest injury I have had tore my back shoulder muscle from the bone and while that is permanant and often painful, I don't use drugs for it nor have I ever.  And I went back to work within a month.
I can afford things that are unexpected, if something should need doctors care.  If there was insurance to cover cosmetic items like a nice tummy tuck, an eye lift or something like that.. I would be all over it in a heartbeat!
Kyst
quote:

ORIGINAL: agirl

Out of curiousity, from a brit......... why wouldn't you have health insurance?

agirl






What if you had children , and they were poorly and needed antibiotics etc. What if you needed medication for a bladder infection, thrush , cystitis...what about when you give birth , if you need   entinox, pethadine, epidural and so on...... What if the baby  is unwell, after it's born ? Who pays for things like the guthrie test and so on.

Who pays for what, when and why?

agirl


(in reply to agirl)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Responsiblity - 7/12/2009 4:18:56 PM   
Whenready


Posts: 319
Joined: 3/5/2009
Status: offline 		quote:

ORIGINAL: LATEXBABY64

Holding people acountable

When we scene and something goes wrong should and dom or domme help pay for medical bill if they where not careful or lied about their experince in doing something
if so what is the best to resolve such a thing

If I lied about experience, then I would think there would be an obligation - tho in the UK most treatment I can envisage would be free anyway. "Not careful" is harder to gauge - both bear responsibility to be careful, and to communicate possible issues clearly before play begins. Whatever "went wrong", did the OP make clear that there was a potential issue with action x?

(in reply to Missokyst)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Responsiblity - 7/12/2009 5:45:12 PM   
justme1980


Posts: 169
Joined: 6/20/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: VampiresLair

quote:

ORIGINAL: justme1980
I believe that the Dom/me is responsibile for the scene, If I am hurt directly or indirectly by something they did, they will be responsible for all medical bills resulting from that scene.


What if you are sceneing with a sadist? You are expected to be hurt, so are they supposed to know the difference in your body between a good hurt and a bad hurt? If you shift and something falls where it shouldnt have because of YOUR actions, you really think the dominant should be responsible for that? They told you not to move,and you did anyway and its still their fault?

If it is the dominants fault for an injury because they were negligent or irrisponsbile, or even worse wreckless, then yes they should be held responsible for part or all. Wrecklessness they should undoubtably pay all, since they willfully did something stupid that they knew could result in injury and they made the choice to pursue it anyway.

A simple accident, a subs mistake rather than a doms, and other shit that comes up its the subs responsibility since they agreed to be in the position in the first place. The old saying is If you cant stand the heat, get out of the kitchen. If you cannot take care of any eventuality that might arrise, then you shouldnt be involving yourself .

DV



You hold the whip and you hurt them, you are responsible, even if you are a sadist, there are other ways to hurt people without injurying them





(in reply to VampiresLair)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Responsiblity - 7/12/2009 6:05:09 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		Since when is hurting someone equated with injuring them?

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

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Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Responsiblity - 7/12/2009 6:35:32 PM   
lovingpet


Posts: 4270
Joined: 6/19/2005
Status: offline 		If I am not with a partner who would willing offer to help with the costs associated with an injury incurred as a part of play, then that is my own fault. I am very careful in my selection process. If I needed the help, then I would accept it of course, but also do not feel like getting every penny just because my partner offers it since I chose to play in a way that lead to injury. The person who wouldn't even offer is not likely someone with whom I would play in the first place.

lovingpet

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Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Responsiblity - 7/12/2009 6:50:06 PM   
variation30


Posts: 1190
Joined: 12/1/2007
From: Alabama
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

No. It's my fault for not being more careful in who I chose to play with. I take responsibility for myself. I don't try to put it on someone else.



pretty much.


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Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Responsiblity - 7/12/2009 7:17:28 PM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LATEXBABY64

Holding people acountable

When we scene and something goes wrong should and dom or domme help pay for medical bill if they where not careful


If they were careless, then yes, it would be nice if they helped pay. 60/40 seems about fair. If they hadn't been careless, I'd not have been injured but we both consented. Since it was their lack of care that caused the injury, they can pay the 60% and I'll pay the rest.

quote:

or lied about their experince in doing something
if so what is the best to resolve such a thing


This to me is a completely different question. If you consent based on a lie, then, to me, you haven't consented at all and they should foot the whole bill if there is an injury plus some extra $ for pain and suffering and a heavy fine as punitive damages. Teach those fuckers not to lie. I'm a bitch that way.


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Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


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Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Responsiblity - 7/12/2009 7:56:07 PM   
Arpig


Posts: 9930
Joined: 1/3/2006
From: Increasingly further from reality
Status: offline 		Its sort of funny, this question is utterly meaningless in Canada.Well unless there are dental issues involved.

So assuming that is at issue, then I would say that the Dom owes half. While it is true that as an adult the sub must accept responsibility for their actions, so must the Dom. It really doesn't much matter if the Dom made a mistake or didn't know what he/she was doing, they participated in the scene and are therefore equally responsible for the results of the scene.

< Message edited by Arpig -- 7/12/2009 7:58:35 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Responsiblity - 7/12/2009 9:20:58 PM   
DavanKael


Posts: 3072
Joined: 10/6/2007
Status: offline 		Based on the vague premise yes, I believe they should. 
'Course, what people 'should' do and what they often do do are quite different things. 
  Davan

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(in reply to agirl)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Responsiblity - 7/12/2009 11:00:26 PM   
LATEXBABY64


Posts: 2107
Joined: 4/8/2004
Status: offline 		I think one should take responsiblity no matter what side of the fence they are on. Passing the buck seems to be a great thing these days

(in reply to DavanKael)
Profile   Post #: 40
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