quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

...A similar question is how to determine exactly what are her "hard limits" versus "this is something that doesn't turn me on per se, but I would do it if told to" versus "I'm telling you this is a limit, but really it's a boundary to be pushed over time."  Of course, one answer to this is simply to try to have open communication upfront, but I've found even then the lines aren't always perfectly clear...

this slave came into Master's life without a list of limits...hard or soft.  she saw it as His place to tell her what the rules and limitations would be...not the other way around.  She let him know what specific things turn her on...(number one on that list being bringing HIM pleasure)...as well as things that have turned her off in the past (dominating others, same-sex intimacy) but in no way was that communication intended to limit HIM, as far as things He wished to experience. 
a submissive/slave not having a list of limits isn't a very popular thing, but it has worked well for us for over 6 years.

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ORIGINAL: Prinsexx

This is so typical in my experience...the 'master' or 'dom' wants to know everything but is withholding most information about themselves.
I just usually drop them asap as it's like them trying to go straight into a control dynamic even though they SAY they want to put you on a sliding scale of slavery.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

...A similar question is how to determine exactly what are her "hard limits" versus "this is something that doesn't turn me on per se, but I would do it if told to" versus "I'm telling you this is a limit, but really it's a boundary to be pushed over time."  Of course, one answer to this is simply to try to have open communication upfront, but I've found even then the lines aren't always perfectly clear...

this slave came into Master's life without a list of limits...hard or soft.  she saw it as His place to tell her what the rules and limitations would be...not the other way around.  She let him know what specific things turn her on...(number one on that list being bringing HIM pleasure)...as well as things that have turned her off in the past (dominating others, same-sex intimacy) but in no way was that communication intended to limit HIM, as far as things He wished to experience. 
a submissive/slave not having a list of limits isn't a very popular thing, but it has worked well for us for over 6 years.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Prinsexx

This is so typical in my experience...the 'master' or 'dom' wants to know everything but is withholding most information about themselves.
I just usually drop them asap as it's like them trying to go straight into a control dynamic even though they SAY they want to put you on a sliding scale of slavery.

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ORIGINAL: mr86259
part of the appeal is having her not know exactly what I *do* want to do, and having her take the leap anyway.  Is that an unreasonable fantasy?

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ORIGINAL: mr86259

I'm currently seeking a full-time slave for a long-term relationship (with the understanding that this is a status that is reached over time - I'm not looking to jump into anything like that on Day 1 and I wouldn't expect a slave to, either).  I've had various experiences for various periods of time, but have not had what I consider a long-term M/s relationship (let's say a year or more).  Having had conversations with a few potentials, I find myself thinking about how much to discuss upfront.

My instinct is to get as much information as possible from her about her expectations, limits, boundaries, needs, etc.  I think that's normal and healthy.  The question is how much to reveal on my side.  There's a fine line of how much I want to reveal upfront, and how much should be left to trust.

Maybe I should clarify - here are things I am definitely *not* interested in:

* Anything that could cause serious/permanent damage/disability/death
* Anything involving children, animals, or other non-consenting adults
* Anything illegal (i.e., hey slave, I need some $$, go start a Madoff-style Ponzi scheme)
* Scat
* Renting out/selling the slave temporarily or permanently
* Telling a slave she can never talk to her family/friends again

This list could go on, but you get the picture.  I'm happy to share those parameters upfront, and I'd hope she would share them.  But outside of these types of limits, part of the appeal is having her not know exactly what I *do* want to do, and having her take the leap anyway.  Is that an unreasonable fantasy?  Or is that a common part of the experience?

Part of it may be that my tastes may change over time.  Maybe I never thought of doing XYZ before, but one day it seems appealing.

A similar question is how to determine exactly what are her "hard limits" versus "this is something that doesn't turn me on per se, but I would do it if told to" versus "I'm telling you this is a limit, but really it's a boundary to be pushed over time."  Of course, one answer to this is simply to try to have open communication upfront, but I've found even then the lines aren't always perfectly clear.

I appreciate any thoughts folks may want to share.

* Also, I posted this as a journal but thought it may be better suited as a post in the forum - if double-posting like that is a no-no, someone kindly let me know :)  (and yes, I have read the guidelines)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mr86259

I'm currently seeking a full-time slave for a long-term relationship
I've had various experiences for various periods of time, but have not had what I consider a long-term M/s relationship (let's say a year or more). 

quote:

But outside of these types of limits, part of the appeal is having her not know exactly what I *do* want to do, and having her take the leap anyway.  Is that an unreasonable fantasy?  Or is that a common part of the experience?

quote:

A similar question is how to determine exactly what are her "hard limits" versus "this is something that doesn't turn me on per se, but I would do it if told to" versus "I'm telling you this is a limit, but really it's a boundary to be pushed over time."  Of course, one answer to this is simply to try to have open communication upfront, but I've found even then the lines aren't always perfectly clear.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

quote:

ORIGINAL: mr86259

I'm currently seeking a full-time slave for a long-term relationship (with the understanding that this is a status that is reached over time - I'm not looking to jump into anything like that on Day 1 and I wouldn't expect a slave to, either).  I've had various experiences for various periods of time, but have not had what I consider a long-term M/s relationship (let's say a year or more).  Having had conversations with a few potentials, I find myself thinking about how much to discuss upfront.

My instinct is to get as much information as possible from her about her expectations, limits, boundaries, needs, etc.  I think that's normal and healthy.  The question is how much to reveal on my side.  There's a fine line of how much I want to reveal upfront, and how much should be left to trust.

Maybe I should clarify - here are things I am definitely *not* interested in:

* Anything that could cause serious/permanent damage/disability/death
* Anything involving children, animals, or other non-consenting adults
* Anything illegal (i.e., hey slave, I need some $$, go start a Madoff-style Ponzi scheme)
* Scat
* Renting out/selling the slave temporarily or permanently
* Telling a slave she can never talk to her family/friends again

This list could go on, but you get the picture.  I'm happy to share those parameters upfront, and I'd hope she would share them.  But outside of these types of limits, part of the appeal is having her not know exactly what I *do* want to do, and having her take the leap anyway.  Is that an unreasonable fantasy?  Or is that a common part of the experience?

Part of it may be that my tastes may change over time.  Maybe I never thought of doing XYZ before, but one day it seems appealing.

A similar question is how to determine exactly what are her "hard limits" versus "this is something that doesn't turn me on per se, but I would do it if told to" versus "I'm telling you this is a limit, but really it's a boundary to be pushed over time."  Of course, one answer to this is simply to try to have open communication upfront, but I've found even then the lines aren't always perfectly clear.

I appreciate any thoughts folks may want to share.

* Also, I posted this as a journal but thought it may be better suited as a post in the forum - if double-posting like that is a no-no, someone kindly let me know :)  (and yes, I have read the guidelines)

I'm not going to nail you for the not including the non kink part.  While that can be part of the dynamic as a whole, I don't think that was the way your question was geared.  I consider that an automatic part of the situation if you are talking about a long term dynamic.  It's not like it's an all kink all of the time life.

What I will echo is the comments about you get what you give in terms of trust, information, and so on.  Sincere intimacy is rarely a one way street.  If you want someone to share their needs, wants, hopes, dreams, desires, limits, etc, etc, etc....  You'd better plan on sharing your own.  That will help to build the trust that you would hope to establish.

The things that you say you are not interested in seem pretty clear and there is no reason not to discuss them with someone up front.  It's the quickest way to start determining compatibility.  To borrow one from your list, if you are dealing with someone who lives for scat play and you're not interested or it's a hard limit, that's a good thing to know from the beginning.  I tend to think that's pretty much common sense.

Now here are the reasons that I wanted to respond to your post.  While I agree that hard limits should be gotten out of the way fairly early, you can't really get to everything "upfront" when starting out.  The term makes it sounds as though all the aspects of a M/s or D/s dynamic are something you can just plop out there.  That might be true for the basics, but there's a lot more than just the basics out there.  I can't tell you how many hours upon hours of communication there were beyond the basics that were covered between clip and Myself about kink, actual dynamic, and all kind of things added to the mix.  To illustrate My point, take a look at any BDSM activity checklist (I know, a lot of people don't like them) and see how extensive it is.  Then look at it from the perspective that is *just* the play.  It's not possible to discuss it all up front.  It's part of the getting to know each other process that happens over time.

The other reason was what you mentioned about how some areas that you aren't interested in now might change over time.  Not the things you listed here that are your major disinterests (hard limits) but things that just don't appeal to you today that might later.  That's not uncommon.  Many people have new interests spark all of the time and lose interest in other things.  It can be a problem if your new interest happens to be one of your sub's hard limits.

The part I highlighted about can be easily expressed as determining a person's hard limits and soft limits.  Add to that, terms like activities that the sub might be willing to engage in once sufficient trust has been established.  Things that they may not be willing to do until they feel secure enough in the dynamic to explore them.  Just like you might have new interests that you may want to explore at a later date, it can be the same on the other side of the kneel.  It might be an area of growth for them or something they see for the first time that suddenly excites the hell out of them.  More time, more communication, more trust as time passes and there might be areas that they want to grow.

From personal experience, I want to tell you that it's pretty cool when that last part happens.  When they approach you to say that something they expressed to you was something they didn't want to do or was a hard limit, they are now reconsidering because the dynamic has grown and it might be something that they want to share.  That they are thinking about going further than they ever have before or have developed enough trust in you to try something new.  Then after talks and reassurances, it's something they are ready to do.

Yeah.  It's pretty cool when that happens.