How much to discuss upfront? (Full Version)

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mr86259 -> How much to discuss upfront? (7/9/2009 4:17:55 PM)

I'm currently seeking a full-time slave for a long-term relationship (with the understanding that this is a status that is reached over time - I'm not looking to jump into anything like that on Day 1 and I wouldn't expect a slave to, either).  I've had various experiences for various periods of time, but have not had what I consider a long-term M/s relationship (let's say a year or more).  Having had conversations with a few potentials, I find myself thinking about how much to discuss upfront.

My instinct is to get as much information as possible from her about her expectations, limits, boundaries, needs, etc.  I think that's normal and healthy.  The question is how much to reveal on my side.  There's a fine line of how much I want to reveal upfront, and how much should be left to trust.

Maybe I should clarify - here are things I am definitely *not* interested in:

* Anything that could cause serious/permanent damage/disability/death
* Anything involving children, animals, or other non-consenting adults
* Anything illegal (i.e., hey slave, I need some $$, go start a Madoff-style Ponzi scheme)
* Scat
* Renting out/selling the slave temporarily or permanently
* Telling a slave she can never talk to her family/friends again

This list could go on, but you get the picture.  I'm happy to share those parameters upfront, and I'd hope she would share them.  But outside of these types of limits, part of the appeal is having her not know exactly what I *do* want to do, and having her take the leap anyway.  Is that an unreasonable fantasy?  Or is that a common part of the experience?

Part of it may be that my tastes may change over time.  Maybe I never thought of doing XYZ before, but one day it seems appealing.

A similar question is how to determine exactly what are her "hard limits" versus "this is something that doesn't turn me on per se, but I would do it if told to" versus "I'm telling you this is a limit, but really it's a boundary to be pushed over time."  Of course, one answer to this is simply to try to have open communication upfront, but I've found even then the lines aren't always perfectly clear.

I appreciate any thoughts folks may want to share.

* Also, I posted this as a journal but thought it may be better suited as a post in the forum - if double-posting like that is a no-no, someone kindly let me know :)  (and yes, I have read the guidelines)



Aileen1968 -> RE: How much to discuss upfront? (7/9/2009 4:23:02 PM)

My advice is to also get to know someone on a non kinky level. Everything you just mentioned was all kink.



justme1980 -> RE: How much to discuss upfront? (7/9/2009 4:24:29 PM)

Simply put, you share everything and anything



herbcaroll -> RE: How much to discuss upfront? (7/9/2009 4:27:22 PM)

As a male sub, I'm more careful about what info I disclose. In terms of bdsm, I am pretty open but I keep other aspects of my life on a "need to know" basis after having learned the hard way about using 7 words when 4 will do.



krikket -> RE: How much to discuss upfront? (7/9/2009 4:29:06 PM)

You should share as much as You expect her to share.  Also, i agree with Aileen.  If you concentrate on the rest of you lives the kink sorta takes care of itself, especially when you meet on a site like CM.



mr86259 -> RE: How much to discuss upfront? (7/9/2009 4:30:08 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aileen1968

My advice is to also get to know someone on a non kinky level. Everything you just mentioned was all kink.


Totally agree - maybe I thought it was implied, but I guess I should have said upfront that getting to know someone for a long period of time is certainly part of the deal - that's why my post only concerned kink.

Edit - clarifying further - getting to know someone for a long period of time on a non-kinky level, I mean.



pompeii -> RE: How much to discuss upfront? (7/9/2009 4:36:53 PM)

I agree with the 'get to know them' crowd. Once you know someone, the details come easily.



RedMagic1 -> RE: How much to discuss upfront? (7/9/2009 5:09:25 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mr86259
maybe I thought it was implied, but I guess I should have said upfront that getting to know someone for a long period of time is certainly part of the deal - that's why my post only concerned kink.

Not many men on the site understand this... and very few actually behave as though it is true.  If you lead with you desire to know who she is in vanilla, you will set yourself ahead of almost anyone else she is corresponding with.



herbcaroll -> RE: How much to discuss upfront? (7/9/2009 5:18:29 PM)

Wiser words have rarely been written.



SirRussellP -> RE: How much to discuss upfront? (7/9/2009 5:23:01 PM)

Since each person and each couple are different and what they want varies also.

My advice is to first sit down and do a list of what you have to have, need, want and would like in a partner.  This as has been pointed out has to first be in a man to woman construct, then to reflect D/s.  Know what your deal breakers and what you can give up for one that really matters to you.

Next do a list of BDSM activities and rate them, armed with this let a perspective sub/slave fill out the same list.  Compare closely to be sure again that there isn't any deal breakers there.  IE, I recently found out that not giving oral to her is as big a deal breaker as her not being willing to give oral to me.

Now if you need a good BDSM list email me I will send you one.

Next take your time getting to know her, be open and totally honest with her and with yourself before you move to collar.  Then I recommend limited time contracts so that either of you can move on with honor if it is discovered the pairing isn't right for either of you.

Russell



lovingpet -> RE: How much to discuss upfront? (7/9/2009 5:32:49 PM)

I concur with the everyday aspects being the bulk of your early discussions. One thing about it is that she is learning about your character and that has more to do with her ability to trust than whether or not you are into the same things. If she knows you are responsible, safe, and decent, then she knows you aren't going to do things to breech her trust no matter how much you may enjoy things she is not yet ready for or may never accept. Being open and vulnerable to her sets a good example for her to follow. Leadership is about always only asking what you can and will give yourself. Lead by example if you want communication, trust, and vulnerability.

I will tell you from personal experience that intentionally trying to withold information from her will result in ther being guarded with you. If you want her to be open and honest with you, don't play the aloof enigma card. You get what you give. It shut me down and stunted my ability to grow in the relationship for a very long time. I felt not only like I couldn't know him, but that he didn't trust ME. Trust runs both ways.

As far as her stated limits, respect them, but understand that desires change over time and also based on feeling safe within a relationship. Soft limits are for pushing gently over time. Hard limits either must be handled very delicately or may show themselves to be there for a very good reason, so be very aware when working with them or even discussing them. I don't really need "limits" as such anymore because he knows me well enough to understand where each area of concern comes from and what to do with that information. I have had limits torn down in short order because he knew perfectly well that it was going to enrich me and us to do so. He has also decided to hold the line on things I have asked to remove the barrier on because he knew I wasn't ready, didn't know the implications, and more. It is a very delicate area and I believe each person's list of limits is where the growth potential comes from. It may not come from directly challengng, pushing, or tearing down those limits, but from addressing the reason they are there and working through all kinds of weak, hurting, or just plain intimate areas.

Hope this helps!

lovingpet



mr86259 -> RE: How much to discuss upfront? (7/10/2009 10:36:51 AM)

Thanks for all your input.  Lots of good info here.



SmokingGun82 -> RE: How much to discuss upfront? (7/10/2009 10:42:49 AM)

I'm of the "share it all" school. I try to be fairly open, mainly because I find it to be a huge pain in the ass to keep up with semi-truths/etcetera. If the question isn't something that's going to screw up my life (such as, what's your SSN and bank account numbers?), I'm probably going to answer. I might not go out of my way to mention certain things... but if they come up, I'm not going to shy away.

Best of luck, whatever you decide to share.



Prinsexx -> RE: How much to discuss upfront? (7/10/2009 10:52:42 AM)

This is so typical in my experience...the 'master' or 'dom' wants to know everything but is withholding most information about themselves.
I just usually drop them asap as it's like them trying to go straight into a control dynamic even though they SAY they want to put you on a sliding scale of slavery.




Prinsexx -> RE: How much to discuss upfront? (7/10/2009 10:55:09 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: pompeii

I agree with the 'get to know them' crowd. Once you know someone, the details come easily.


You can live with someone for 20 years and still not know them.



mr86259 -> RE: How much to discuss upfront? (7/10/2009 11:11:37 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Prinsexx

This is so typical in my experience...the 'master' or 'dom' wants to know everything but is withholding most information about themselves.
I just usually drop them asap as it's like them trying to go straight into a control dynamic even though they SAY they want to put you on a sliding scale of slavery.




Hm, I may have given the wrong impression - in reality, I'm pretty much an open book.



WestBaySlave -> RE: How much to discuss upfront? (7/10/2009 11:12:02 AM)

 From my perspective, I want to know as MUCH as possible before moving towards a master/slave situation. The mystery dom is all very fun until he goes a place I know I can't go with him, leaving us both disappointed and unsatisfied. Knowing what a man won't do to me or with me is far more important than covering everything he will.





WestBaySlave -> RE: How much to discuss upfront? (7/10/2009 11:19:04 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mr86259

A similar question is how to determine exactly what are her "hard limits" versus "this is something that doesn't turn me on per se, but I would do it if told to" versus "I'm telling you this is a limit, but really it's a boundary to be pushed over time."  Of course, one answer to this is simply to try to have open communication upfront, but I've found even then the lines aren't always perfectly clear.



It all depends on the slave, I'm thinking. I know some slaves with soft limits. As for me, I'm willing to do a lot of stuff I hate and still not have it be a "limit", but my true limits are places I never want to go. In fact, a phrase I often see in profiles - "Your limits will be respected but pushed" - doesn't really make sense to me. For example, you cannot "push" my limit on say, snuff, and respect it, and if that's even an option I don't want to be near you, let alone be your slave.



Mercnbeth -> RE: How much to discuss upfront? (7/10/2009 11:26:09 AM)

quote:

...A similar question is how to determine exactly what are her "hard limits" versus "this is something that doesn't turn me on per se, but I would do it if told to" versus "I'm telling you this is a limit, but really it's a boundary to be pushed over time."  Of course, one answer to this is simply to try to have open communication upfront, but I've found even then the lines aren't always perfectly clear...


this slave came into Master's life without a list of limits...hard or soft.  she saw it as His place to tell her what the rules and limitations would be...not the other way around.  She let him know what specific things turn her on...(number one on that list being bringing HIM pleasure)...as well as things that have turned her off in the past (dominating others, same-sex intimacy) but in no way was that communication intended to limit HIM, as far as things He wished to experience. 
a submissive/slave not having a list of limits isn't a very popular thing, but it has worked well for us for over 6 years.



chiaThePet -> RE: How much to discuss upfront? (7/10/2009 11:43:39 AM)


I find if you discuss it from behind, you never see it coming.

chia* (the pet)



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