cap and trade being voted TODAY! NO! (Full Version)

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pahunkboy -> cap and trade being voted TODAY! NO! (6/26/2009 7:08:44 AM)

We don't want it.

http://www.congress.org    I got a call from a gal from Ron Pauls office.  They seldom call- but things are going crazy now.  Cap and trade will raise your utility bills $1500 a year.

TODAY!    Act.   Or may as well put a gun to your head and get it over with the nutso condition our country is going.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQrzmJaCgxk  ---  A video hugs I sent out to a few buddies.  




servantforuse -> RE: cap and trade being voted TODAY! NO! (6/26/2009 9:26:01 AM)

You are right on. This should be called Cap and Tax. It will put a huge tax burdon on small and medium size businesses...




pahunkboy -> RE: cap and trade being voted TODAY! NO! (6/26/2009 10:07:23 AM)

they sure are cramming the stuff at us.   ...dont they ever get rid of laws we no longer need??





DomKen -> RE: cap and trade being voted TODAY! NO! (6/26/2009 10:33:40 AM)

Ron Paul doesn't like cap and trade? Further evidence it is a good idea.




servantforuse -> RE: cap and trade being voted TODAY! NO! (6/26/2009 10:52:41 AM)

This bill will especially hurt the manufacturing companies in the Midwest. The will be paying penalties ( taxes ) to other States...




pahunkboy -> RE: cap and trade being voted TODAY! NO! (6/26/2009 5:38:11 PM)

it "passed"   interesting edit on it...  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTMQh3xwVUw




Sanity -> RE: cap and trade being voted TODAY! NO! (6/26/2009 9:17:57 PM)


It won't hurt manufacturing companies at all, so long as they move the rest of their plants to China where there is no such outrageous cap and tax scheme.


quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

This bill will especially hurt the manufacturing companies in the Midwest. The will be paying penalties ( taxes ) to other States...




DesFIP -> RE: cap and trade being voted TODAY! NO! (6/27/2009 6:25:05 AM)

3M has been selling off their carbon credits for years. They reconfigured their plants to be less wasteful and instead of paying the taxes, they make money off of companies that won't fix problems.
Paper mills in Maine have attempted to sue environmentalists that want them to stop polluting and been slapped down sharply because they don't want to improve their style of operating even when given a clear step by step way to save money and do better by their communities.

Companies never choose to change until forced to.




Sanity -> RE: cap and trade being voted TODAY! NO! (6/27/2009 7:54:35 AM)


3M will pay far more for the privilege of using the government's energy, just like everyone else will. The poor and the elderly will pay more, hospitals and nursing homes will pay more... everyone will pay more. It's simple economics. This bill is designed to raise energy costs for everyone, with government raking in all the raped capital.

The United States already has some of the highest corporate tax rates in the world. Now, Obama and Democrats in Congress are set to add these additional taxes and regulations on top of that - so why wouldn't businesses move their remaining manufacturing plants and other facilities offshore?

If companies stay here they might be viewed as patriotic, but they will go broke because their competition will be located in countries that are actually business friendly (unlike the U.S. is, under Obama). Soon, few here will be able to afford anything such companies produce anyway, as the few remaining jobs will be in the service sector.

The worst part of this entire deal is that Congress is ramming through another huge bill without even reading it, which they have to ram it through  because fewer and fewer people are believing in Al Gore's "Global Warming" fairy tale every day, and so if they don't use this Armageddon-like scare tactic to get these taxes raised now they'll likely never get them raised.

And make no mistake - this is a tax, and especially a tax on the poorest Americans who can least afford it. All these higher costs will be passed down to the consumer!

And think about this - once the rest of our manufacturing jobs ship out, they'll be gone forever. Even when the country turns more business friendly (Conservative) after new elections, getting companies to move jobs back into the United States will be a tough sell, a long and agonizingly slow process.

The damages that are being done through the use of these "Global Warming" fear tactics are going to be permanent.


quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

3M has been selling off their carbon credits for years. They reconfigured their plants to be less wasteful and instead of paying the taxes, they make money off of companies that won't fix problems.
Paper mills in Maine have attempted to sue environmentalists that want them to stop polluting and been slapped down sharply because they don't want to improve their style of operating even when given a clear step by step way to save money and do better by their communities.

Companies never choose to change until forced to.




Sanity -> RE: cap and trade being voted TODAY! NO! (6/27/2009 8:26:59 AM)


From the WSJ:

quote:

The Climate Change Climate Change

The number of skeptics is swelling everywhere.

Steve Fielding recently asked the Obama administration to reassure him on the science of man-made global warming. When the administration proved unhelpful, Mr. Fielding decided to vote against climate-change legislation.

If you haven't heard of this politician, it's because he's a member of the Australian Senate. As the U.S. House of Representatives prepares to pass a climate-change bill, the Australian Parliament is preparing to kill its own country's carbon-emissions scheme. Why? A growing number of Australian politicians, scientists and citizens once again doubt the science of human-caused global warming.

Among the many reasons President Barack Obama and the Democratic majority are so intent on quickly jamming a cap-and-trade system through Congress is because the global warming tide is again shifting. It turns out Al Gore and the United Nations (with an assist from the media), did a little too vociferous a job smearing anyone who disagreed with them as "deniers." The backlash has brought the scientific debate roaring back to life in Australia, Europe, Japan and even, if less reported, the U.S.

***

(Full op-ed article here).






thornhappy -> RE: cap and trade being voted TODAY! NO! (6/27/2009 10:55:47 AM)

That's an opinion piece.  An article from the news side of the WSJ would be more believable.




DomKen -> RE: cap and trade being voted TODAY! NO! (6/27/2009 11:14:36 AM)

It's funny how the polluters claim there are lots of skeptics but when you look all you find are guys on their payroll and nothing in any peer reviewed publications. In the scientific arena the question is settled, the Earth is warming due to anthrogenic causes.

Cap and trade will not cost anyone any extra money unless they have consciously chosen to not keep up with pollution control technology. The companies that have will actually make money, by trading their carbon credits. The feds won't get that money. the efficient clean businesses that have carbon credits to trade will get the money.




Sanity -> RE: cap and trade being voted TODAY! NO! (6/27/2009 11:30:12 AM)


Name anything in the article that's factually incorrect.


quote:

ORIGINAL: thornhappy

That's an opinion piece.  An article from the news side of the WSJ would be more believable.




Sanity -> RE: cap and trade being voted TODAY! NO! (6/27/2009 11:34:32 AM)


If the science is settled why did Obama insist on ramming this bill through the House at 3:00 in the morning, without giving anyone in Congress a chance to even read it.

That isn't exactly a vote of confidence for the "science" behind this legislation, quite the opposite - that's a sure sign of desperation.


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

It's funny how the polluters claim there are lots of skeptics but when you look all you find are guys on their payroll and nothing in any peer reviewed publications. In the scientific arena the question is settled, the Earth is warming due to anthrogenic causes.

Cap and trade will not cost anyone any extra money unless they have consciously chosen to not keep up with pollution control technology. The companies that have will actually make money, by trading their carbon credits. The feds won't get that money. the efficient clean businesses that have carbon credits to trade will get the money.




DomKen -> RE: cap and trade being voted TODAY! NO! (6/27/2009 12:47:08 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


If the science is settled why did Obama insist on ramming this bill through the House at 3:00 in the morning, without giving anyone in Congress a chance to even read it.

That isn't exactly a vote of confidence for the "science" behind this legislation, quite the opposite - that's a sure sign of desperation.

Since when has Congress been governed by science?

Anyway it wasn't voted on at 3AM, the vote was finished at 7:17PM and was only that late due to GOP stalling tactics.
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0609/24138.html
http://congress.blogs.foxnews.com/2009/06/27/an-inconvenient-vote/




Sanity -> RE: cap and trade being voted TODAY! NO! (6/27/2009 1:05:02 PM)


Okay, so it was a 300 page document dump at three a.m. in the morning.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXXZYcaSCeI

Your Politico link basically says that the GOP is trying hard to cut spending - so the message?

Vote GOP.


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
Since when has Congress been governed by science?

Anyway it wasn't voted on at 3AM, the vote was finished at 7:17PM and was only that late due to GOP stalling tactics.
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0609/24138.html
http://congress.blogs.foxnews.com/2009/06/27/an-inconvenient-vote/




sophia37 -> RE: cap and trade being voted TODAY! NO! (6/27/2009 3:10:56 PM)

I want cap and trade if the credits are bought and sold on the commodities market. There is that available right now. So if the polluters have to buy credits, let them instead of simply paying the government a fee on how much they are over, buy credits from forest landowners who will benefit from this. Lets spread some of the wealth around how bout.  With 187 acres of forest land in my family, I'm Green. But will I be rewarded for it? As a tax payer, I wouldnt mind a way to make a few bucks off this grand idea. 




pahunkboy -> RE: cap and trade being voted TODAY! NO! (6/27/2009 3:49:14 PM)

An illegal law is not enforcable.


we are now seeing people who have a few hundred million in networth realizing the NWO does not include them. 

If you cant see how pathetic all of it, this blizzard of cram down legislation is- how traitorous it is... then you may as well climb in the gas chambers right now.

the "law" only applies to YOU, not the all seeing eye.

I am joining the local mitita- and of there is none- then I am starting one. I am done saying pretty please to the globalists.

I would rather die on my feet then on my knees.    The globalists have pushed the masses too far.  I am ready and others are quickly readying as well.


There will be blood.  Be mad at me if you want- but that is how it is.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6I8KAH6-QZk    <--watch this 2 min exchange from 1995.





Sanity -> RE: cap and trade being voted TODAY! NO! (6/27/2009 4:28:08 PM)


Your family has 187 acres all to itself?

That's WAYYYY too much for just one family!!!

So c'mon - spread the wealth around...

(Or at least, be careful what you ask for).


quote:

ORIGINAL: sophia37

I want cap and trade if the credits are bought and sold on the commodities market. There is that available right now. So if the polluters have to buy credits, let them instead of simply paying the government a fee on how much they are over, buy credits from forest landowners who will benefit from this. Lets spread some of the wealth around how bout.  With 187 acres of forest land in my family, I'm Green. But will I be rewarded for it? As a tax payer, I wouldnt mind a way to make a few bucks off this grand idea. 





pahunkboy -> RE: cap and trade being voted TODAY! NO! (6/27/2009 4:55:35 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Your family has 187 acres all to itself?

That's WAYYYY too much for just one family!!!

So c'mon - spread the wealth around...

(Or at least, be careful what you ask for).


quote:

ORIGINAL: sophia37

I want cap and trade if the credits are bought and sold on the commodities market. There is that available right now. So if the polluters have to buy credits, let them instead of simply paying the government a fee on how much they are over, buy credits from forest landowners who will benefit from this. Lets spread some of the wealth around how bout.  With 187 acres of forest land in my family, I'm Green. But will I be rewarded for it? As a tax payer, I wouldnt mind a way to make a few bucks off this grand idea. 




Spread the wealth around?   

ROFLMAO!!!




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