Laying it all out there (Full Version)

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Observatory -> Laying it all out there (6/19/2009 8:34:35 PM)

So, I joined this forum a few days ago with no real experience in the community and not sure where I fit in. You see, I’ve got a unique situation on my hands.  After debating with myself I’ve decided to just explain everything here and ask you all what you think.


I have two problems.  The first is that I absolutely can't stand romance.  I never understood romantic relationships and never had one that was even moderately successful. A D/s relationship makes much more sense to me, which explains why I'm here.

But then there's the other problem. I’m a transsexual (FTM) and not very comfortable with some of my parts. 

  Now add those two things together and what do you get? Virginity. At 32.

  Congrats if you’re still reading this.

  I've now reached the point now where I want to explore my sexuality, but I can't just jump into bed and let somebody do whatever they want with me like us trannies are apparently supposed to.  I don't have a problem with someone wanting me for sex if they treat me with respect.  But is that even possible or is it a contradiction in terms? 


What I want is a (male) teacher, someone who is willing to have a little patience… Ok, maybe a lot of patience…. But still with a sense of authority. Is that too much to ask for? Are subs always expected to just put out without consideration of their feelings? Would anybody even be interested (generally speaking) in the kind of thing I want?

  Now for a disclaimer, because when I tell people about my lack of experience they seem to assume I’m either naïve or a pushover:  On the off-chance that anyone reads this and thinks they’d like to nail me, let me point out that if I were easily seduced I wouldn't still be a virgin, would I?



However, the flip side of that is that if anyone does manage to get me in bed, they will have reason to be proud of themselves.



Observatory -> RE: Laying it all out there (6/19/2009 8:35:56 PM)

Should also point out, I'll get around to completing my profile eventually.



kuriouswitch -> RE: Laying it all out there (6/19/2009 9:23:27 PM)

Just because you are a sub there is no reason that you need to "give it up" to just anyone. I was a virgin until I visited Master in May and I'm 25. It took a lot of trust on my part and patience on his part. We talked about it a lot and he made sure it was special and that I enjoyed it and that if for some reason I said stop he did and would ask me why and then we'd either start again or try something different. You just need to find someone who will be willing to take things one step at a time, willing to listen to you and willing to understand that yes you are a virgin and no you're not stupid just because you are one. I wish you good luck and hope you find what you're looking for.



DesFIP -> RE: Laying it all out there (6/19/2009 9:36:32 PM)

The problem I see is that you aren't interested in romance but neither are you interested in a quick roll in the hay. Most people who want to develop a relationship do want it to fulfill their romantic needs as well. The ones who don't seem to expect you'll agree to submit first thing.

There aren't that many people who don't want any love but do want to take the time to develop a deep meaningful relationship first. And of course transexuals have a smaller pool of possible partners to begin with.



NihilusZero -> RE: Laying it all out there (6/19/2009 9:42:53 PM)

You're asking for a weird paradox: you want someone to devote enough personal effort (with sexual facets) to guide you gently along with this but you don't want so much personal effort that it spills into the emotional department. When you say you don't want a "romantic relationship" you may have to get a bit more specific as to how that is defined by you in the emotional department.

I know D/s relationships that do not have a sexual facet, but do maintain the dominance/submission aspect...but you actually want both, just not with a certain type of emotional expectation, although to have the desire to devote the patience you ask for, it involves someone having a certain attachment of sentiment.

What exactly would be an ideal scenario for you?



IronBear -> RE: Laying it all out there (6/20/2009 5:27:45 AM)

I have in the past and currently have very close relationships with several women, none of which have anything to do with this adult lifestyle nor anything remotely to do with romance. I see nothing wrong with this as long as each party is getting what they expected and are happy with it.  



LovingMistress45 -> RE: Laying it all out there (6/20/2009 6:17:41 AM)

I am not really sure exactly what you are wanting from the man you desire to be your "teacher".  You are saying that you are female to male trans, I am assuming that you are still physically female so you are looking for male that is sexually attracted to females to teach you (have sex with you) and take his time as you need to feel comfortable and respected.  But you don't want a romantic relationship. And somewhere along the line you may become male physically.

Frankly it seems to me that you are asking for a lot.  If you were looking for a romantic relationship with someone that was able to understand and accept your gender change/identity I would think you might have a better chance at it.  Your best option might be to become friends with someone that would be willing to be basically a "fuck buddy", someone that likes and respects you but is not looking for a primary romantic relationship, but would like to have sex on occassion.  Then if you attend local bdsm munches/events you may find someone that is willing to scene you without expectation of a relationships. 

Good luck on finding what you need.



DarkSteven -> RE: Laying it all out there (6/20/2009 7:43:21 AM)

You say that you don't want "romance".  And you haven't defined what that word means to you.  But you have strong feelings about it... whatever is it.

You have very pronounced ideas about what you don't want, and are not at peace with some of the things that you yourself are.

If I were in a relationship with someone like you, I would consider it my responsibility to change that person, slowly and gently, into someone who was comfortable with themself.  And very likely with some of the elements of "romance" if they were important to me.

I'd get more satisfaction knowing that I had helped to make that person healthier than I'd relieved their virginity.



SimplyMichael -> RE: Laying it all out there (6/20/2009 8:08:20 AM)

My bet is that by romance he means love because love makes one vulnerable.

Most things are possible, just some are more or less likely.

First relationships suck and I think the OP is in for a rocky road, frankly, I would try and find some sort of support group and work toward this slowly.  Finding the right partner is going to be key.



DarkSteven -> RE: Laying it all out there (6/20/2009 8:18:52 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

I would try and find some sort of support group and work toward this slowly.  Finding the right partner is going to be key.



Michael, when I read OP's post, I thought that beginning with friendships and building towards relationships would be good.  But I like your idea of a support group more.



sublace -> RE: Laying it all out there (6/20/2009 9:54:49 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

My bet is that by romance he means love because love makes one vulnerable.



Well said thanks. Blunt honest and It feels so sad.

Another take: I know a few people who are uninterested in romance. I've asked what they meant. It's because many people confuse romance with real love.
They hesitate accepting
It's that they won't conform to trivial, culturally defined romantic with surface value only. No empty tokens posed as 'love'. 'Love' isn't 'done' on only certain calendar days. Love isn't supposed to be tied with strings and manipulation.

Better: Love as an action word. Love as mutual appreciation and consideration. Love as 'being' - a bond welded by consistant and active care. Love as "being there" when times are tough, as well as fun. Sex, comminication, honesty and friendship and caring commitment are important. Romance doen't equal 'love'. Capice?



GYPZYQUEEN -> RE: Laying it all out there (6/20/2009 10:53:29 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Observatory


  But is that even possible or is it a contradiction in terms? 
It is posssible...many relationships in the BDSM world and regular fo that matter...are business like..an exchange..a fullfilling ..a convenience...WITHOUT romance


…. But still with a sense of authority. Is that too much to ask for? Are subs always expected to just put out without consideration of their feelings? Would anybody even be interested (generally speaking) in the kind of thing I want?
SURELY you jest..?.
HOW can choice and autonomy be taken from you..

AS YOU BUILD... IT IS ABOUT CHOICE..
you surrender your will...mind..heart..
in YOUR WAY..how YOU WANT..when..you want
 
There is someone for everyone
 
LAY IT OUT IN YOUR PROFILE..
 
GQ







DavanKael -> RE: Laying it all out there (6/20/2009 11:21:39 AM)

I do not think that your expectation of respect from someone with whom you have sex is unreasonable at all.  As for subs putting out with no consideration to their feelings: sure, some might expect that.  I would, at best, call those people asshats.  Being submissive doesn't relegate you to an object or a thing or an automaton, it speaks to your motivations, your drives, what brings you pleasure and fulfilment, just as being a male doesn't mean you want to screw every female that crosses your path (As you've made clear via your orientation toward males as well as your virginity).  Stereotypes abound.  They are sometimes valid.  Sometimes, though, they simply aren't. 
I'm curious what's so triggering about the idea of 'romance'.  'Course, not all D/s relationships are void of romance (That's another stereotype). 
A teacher/mentor sort of a scenario could work.  It's going to be about the people involved, far less than the words affixed, though those are a place from which to begin dialogue. 
Honesty and seeking. 
Best wishes, 
  Davan



Observatory -> RE: Laying it all out there (6/20/2009 6:18:33 PM)

quote:

You're asking for a weird paradox: you want someone to devote enough personal effort (with sexual facets) to guide you gently along with this but you don't want so much personal effort that it spills into the emotional department.
  No that’s not it at all. I don't think a relationship has to be romantic to be intimate. When I say romance, I'm talking about starry-eyed I love you’s, roses and candles, we are joined at the hip, if I don't call you at regular intervals you'll be upset, we have to do X amount of kissing and making out or something is wrong, if you want to do something I don't like I have to come with you, you’re not going to tell me exactly what it is you want from me but expect me to figure it out, you say you love me but even if you don't realize it sex is really what defines our relationship, we must eventually move in together and share everything type of relationship.   
If Frodo & Sam did actually have sex, that would my ideal relationship
 
quote:

You are saying that you are female to male trans, I am assuming that you are still physically female so you are looking for male that is sexually attracted to females to teach you (have sex with you) and take his time as you need to feel comfortable and respected.  But you don't want a romantic relationship. And somewhere along the line you may become male physically.
  Nope, I’m already male (as I’m going to get). Transgendered people can be gay too you know. In fact there are more of us than in the general population I believe.



BarnacleBill -> RE: Laying it all out there (6/21/2009 11:30:15 AM)

So true! Good luck in your search and you will Find that right person trust me. Dont give up easily as it might take some time, but the search will be worth it!



blacklily -> RE: Laying it all out there (6/21/2009 1:06:47 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Observatory

quote:

 
If Frodo & Sam did actually have sex, that would my ideal relationship


Oh wow! ROFL! Very ideal!




Observatory -> RE: Laying it all out there (6/21/2009 8:14:33 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: GYPZYQUEEN
LAY IT OUT IN YOUR PROFILE..
 
GQ


That's easier said than done.




RedMagic1 -> RE: Laying it all out there (6/21/2009 8:29:41 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Observatory

quote:

ORIGINAL: GYPZYQUEEN
LAY IT OUT IN YOUR PROFILE..
 
GQ


That's easier said than done.



It would be a good exercise for you.  I found your opening post extremely hard to understand, and you might have noticed that people were debating what you meant by different words. You might find that the more clearly you can communicate what you want to other people, the more clear it will become for you as well.



Observatory -> RE: Laying it all out there (6/22/2009 4:28:44 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1
It would be a good exercise for you.  I found your opening post extremely hard to understand, and you might have noticed that people were debating what you meant by different words.


I do know exactly what I want, the problem is I would need a novel to explain it! I'm going to come back later with a different user name.



Joseff -> RE: Laying it all out there (6/22/2009 5:08:06 PM)

OP, There is just so much here to explore, from defining the terms you use, to questions about how you came to be where you are now. This thread can go in numerous directions, but I think what you are looking for is simply encouragement. I think that you have a long way to go to reach a place where you are happy. There seems to be a lot you still have to discover about yourself. I believe you will eventually get there, however, the fact that you started this post shows that you're willing to make the effort. What you're looking for is likely not as unusual as you think, although you might have to sort through a few near misses along the way. Get your profile done, and good luck




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