Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

The importance of communication


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion >> The importance of communication Page: [1] 2   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
The importance of communication - 6/13/2009 2:37:42 PM   
leadership527


Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline 		Since I got to dragging out leadership quotes on a different thread, I happened also across this one which I thought I would share. Here's some food for thought..

Dominants: Consider this the next time you are tempted to tell your submissive what they should and should not say to you.
Submissives: Consider this the next time you are thinking to yourself, "I should just be quiet and cope."

Lesson 2: The day soldiers stop bringing you their problems is the day you have stopped leading them. They have either lost confidence that you can help them or concluded that you do not care. Either case is a failure of leadership.

If this were a litmus test, the majority of CEO's would fail. One, they build so many barriers to upward communication that the very idea of someone lower in the hierarchy looking up to the leader for help is ludicrous. Two, the corporate culture they foster often defines asking for help as weakness or failure, so people cover up their gaps, and the organization suffers accordingly. Real leaders make themselves accessible and available. They show concern for the efforts and challenges faced by underlings-even as they demand high standards. Accordingly, they are more likely to create an environment where problem analysis replaces blame.
Colin Powel, A Leadership Primer.
Food for thought, eh? I know we all know that communication is important. But I had never quite thought of it so clearly. Every time a submissive says to themself, I am not going to bring this problem to my dominant's attention, they are effectively saying, "you are not my dominant." Conversely, every time a leader says, "I don't want to hear your problem." they are admitting that they don't want to lead. When you get down to it, it is not possible to lead someone if you don't can't identify with them - especially their problems which is where they most need the leadership.

OK, I promise to get off this jag now and not post the relevancies between all 18 lessons and BDSM. But gosh, this one just seemed so spot on to god knows how many threads I read here I couldn't resist. Not to say that the other 16 are not incredibly relevant also, but this one comes up all the time in the form of, "Should a slave say [insert statement of unhappiness here] to their master?


_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: The importance of communication - 6/13/2009 2:42:13 PM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline 		The day that I can no longer talk to Master about anything on my mind is the day I have to reconsider the relationship we have.


(in reply to leadership527)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: The importance of communication - 6/13/2009 3:22:50 PM   
daddysprop247


Posts: 1712
Joined: 6/24/2005
From: DC Metro area
Status: offline 		hi leadership. this sounds very good theory, but may not always be positive or practical in reality. if i were to go to my Master every single time i had a problem, fear, worry or serious concern, then i would appear to be in a constant state of complaint and/or unhappiness, and would give my Master constant stress and anxiety. a critical part of my growth as a slave was learning how to judge what to share and what not to share with him, when to share it and how. does this mean i keep secrets from my Master, that there are any issues of even the slightest significance in my heart or in my life that he is unaware of? of course not. what it means is that i am not putting unnecessary pressure or stress on my Master by crying to him 24/7.

for me this was a very difficult lesson to learn, as my Master is the center of my world...i do not work outside the home, i go nowhere alone, i have no social life outside of him, i am not attached to family, etc. so when someone is literally your EVERYthing, you have the urge to spill out all the questions, all the pains, all the fears in your little heart...because you feel as if you must get it out somehow, and he is the only one you have. so i had to learn the hard way that sometimes i just have to suck it up. sometimes i must suffer in silence. and realize that hey, this man knows me pretty well by now, he knows that everything is not kittens and ice cream. and when he decides that he wishes to address the issue and listen to me, that is when he will come to me and tell me to speak my heart. i also had to learn to accept that, for his own very logically sound reasons, sometimes he may never wish me to speak. and it is not about not caring, or not leading, but about doing what is best for him, and through that the M/s dynamic as a whole.

(in reply to littlewonder)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: The importance of communication - 6/13/2009 4:15:51 PM   
SlyStone


Posts: 398
Joined: 12/23/2006
From: Chicago
Status: offline
quote:

Dominants: Consider this the next time you are tempted to tell your submissive what they should and should not say to you.



I have no interest in telling a submissive what she can or cannot say to me, to me there is nothing more wasteful   than dumbing down an intelligent submissive, and only a fool would marginalize the importance of communication, but it seems to me that what you are not understanding is that the dominant role is not passive, it is aggressive and interactive.

You shouldn't need them to come to you with every little problem, because by taking on the authority that is offered it is implicit that  you will  proactively solve most of them before they even exist and certainly when they come to light, either on your own or with her input.  Otherwise what is the point?

You seem insistent on applying a business leadership model to a D/s dynamic and to me it makes little sense. In an interpersonal relationship there are no corporate layers or cultures, there is no us and them bullshit, it is stripped of all that, all it is is two people engaging each other in a particular way, that's it.



_____________________________

Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage.

Anais Nin

(in reply to leadership527)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: The importance of communication - 6/13/2009 4:29:16 PM   
leadership527


Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline 		~FAST REPLY~
Thanks for the feedback DaddysProp and Slystone. Obviously, to me such things do make sense but based on the feedback I get, if it doesn't make sense to others, there's no point in talking about it that way. So far, based on this and other threads, that line of reasoning doesn't seem to resonate with anyone but me... *laughs* Uh yeah, like that'd be the first time in my life that I was on a different wavelength than everyone else.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to SlyStone)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: The importance of communication - 6/13/2009 4:57:38 PM   
daddysprop247


Posts: 1712
Joined: 6/24/2005
From: DC Metro area
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

~FAST REPLY~
Thanks for the feedback DaddysProp and Slystone. Obviously, to me such things do make sense but based on the feedback I get, if it doesn't make sense to others, there's no point in talking about it that way. So far, based on this and other threads, that line of reasoning doesn't seem to resonate with anyone but me... *laughs* Uh yeah, like that'd be the first time in my life that I was on a different wavelength than everyone else.


join the club, lol. i have often felt the very same way on these and other lifestyle-related discussion forums. more often than not, the philosophies and values by which my Master and i live, our ways and beliefs will be drastically different from 99.99% of those posting. it can make one feel very alone and out of place. but what you have to keep in mind is that those who speak up do not represent everyone in the lifestyle...and there will always be those who read your words and can relate, or who will be touched or inspired. also, it is SO important that those of us who may not fit in with the D/s "norm" or status quo, make our voices heard. otherwise newcomers get the false impression that there is only one path to follow. so please, don't shut up anytime soon, Sir.

(in reply to leadership527)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: The importance of communication - 6/13/2009 5:13:42 PM   
SlyStone


Posts: 398
Joined: 12/23/2006
From: Chicago
Status: offline
quote:

Obviously, to me such things do make sense but based on the feedback I get, if it doesn't make sense to others, there's no point in talking about it that way




I don't know what the point is in posting an OP if you have no interest in alternative views and discussion, other than to lecture and condescend, but I am sure you have your reasons for posting.

In any case it occurs to me that even what little time I spend here may be better spent elsewhere.

Good luck to you.


_____________________________

Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage.

Anais Nin

(in reply to leadership527)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: The importance of communication - 6/13/2009 5:20:10 PM   
LadyHibiscus


Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline 		I like that quote very much, Leadership.  I've always been a fan of Colin Powell!

In my interpretation, I don't see him as saying that a sub should spill every passing thought or complaint, but that approaching the higher levels of the chain of commmand should NOT be seen as a fault!  I agree completely.  Bummer that it isn't that way in the workplace, eh!

Daddysprop, since you appear to not have any friends of your own outside your owner's world, I think it's normal for you to feel that you have a million complaints and of course you have to filter what to say and what not to say.  Truly, what sounding board is available to you, you don't even have a sister slave to share with!   Your situation is very unique, and I admire your ability to live the the way you do.

_____________________________

[page 23 girl]



(in reply to SlyStone)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: The importance of communication - 6/13/2009 5:32:33 PM   
RedMagic1


Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline 		Related, but I don't know who said it first:

If you're too far ahead, you're not really leading.


_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to LadyHibiscus)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: The importance of communication - 6/13/2009 6:05:26 PM   
DemonKia


Posts: 5521
Joined: 10/13/2007
From: Chico, Nor-Cali
Status: offline 		FR, after read thru

Well, Jeff, I found that a fascinating thing to post, & very personally useful . . . . . People are constantly bringing their problems to me, & I'd been viewing it in a more dysfunctional light (ie, what a pain, why are these people bothering me, etc), but framing it as evidence of my 'leadership qualities' really works . . . . . It's similar to what I think of as the 'mommy thing' -- one of the 'functions' of a mother is to be a source of unconditional & never-ending love. & so when someone seems to be looking for that level of unconditional love from me I understand it, in part, as being about them seeking 'mothering' . . .. . . & now I'll add the nuance that when people bring me their problems they're honoring me by implicitly looking to me for leadership . . . . . (With both 'leadership' & 'mothering' being roles I take very seriously . . . .)

_____________________________

Snarko ergo sum.



The Verbossinator

(in reply to RedMagic1)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: The importance of communication - 6/13/2009 6:42:20 PM   
KneelforAnne


Posts: 1011
Joined: 6/14/2006
Status: offline 		~FR~

I really like this quote, and it seems to illustrate the dynamic that I seek. Isn't this simply a degree of transparency? A high degree, yes...but still transparency? Please correct me if you feel that I am wrong, I'd like to know.

I don’t think that it has to be seen as laying all of your problems out for someone else to deal with. I am a reasonably intelligent person, and up until this point in my life I have handled my own problems. I’m not going to cease being that person because I have found the Dominant for me.

Instead of seeing it as whining and crying and “ please fix my problems, oh Uber Dom” why can’t the issue, whatever it is, be brought up in everyday conversation?

“I really had a problem with so-and-so today at work”. It doesn’t have to be all wailing and sobbing and gushing problems. However, if I had an awful day I totally expect him to care enough to wonder what’s going on. In fact, if I had a regular day I still expect to be asked about it...to talk about it.

I sort of feel that if the issue is big enough to actually be a problem, then an early conversation about it prior to it becoming a problem may have fixed things before they got to be so upsetting. This applies to vanilla life as well as the D/s (or whatever you like) dynamic.

I think the day I feel I have to edit myself (omitting rather than simply waiting for the best place and time) will be the beginning of the end.


_____________________________

~Posting now as ForgetMeKnots~

BDSM is what two people at the moment decide it should be...
--CatdeMedici

Member of the Subbie Mafia
Pimpette
Member of MoGa's IN crowd

(in reply to DemonKia)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: The importance of communication - 6/13/2009 7:01:40 PM   
Zechriel


Posts: 308
Joined: 11/19/2007
Status: offline 		Good evening!
That was the hardest lesson I probably had to learn so far in this relationship. To communicate EVERYTHING! I always had the feeling and still do in vanilla situations that I would not say things because I do not want to burden people with my thoughts/feelings. That is why I am there not the other way around. So when Daddy kept insisting I kept saying no until one day it really sank in that he cared and it did not matter whether or not he COULD solve them but that I did not always have to be so strong alone. I could let him be strong with me...and in certain situations-stronger than me. He wanted to be burdened.

We can discuss Cx from sun up to sun down but the finer points of it are still so blurry sometimes. We have to get back to basics and just t-a-l-k. lol Have a great weekend!
Love,
Zechriel


_____________________________

Sir HighlanderME's little z

(in reply to KneelforAnne)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: The importance of communication - 6/13/2009 7:07:09 PM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

Every time a submissive says to themself, I am not going to bring this problem to my dominant's attention, they are effectively saying, "you are not my dominant."


Wow. I could not disagree more with this statement. Setting aside the fact that it's an absolute, it pre-supposes that because one is a submissive that they can't solve problems on their own. Many people think schools are suppose to teach children how to learn. I have quite a different perspective .. schools are meant to teach one how to 'think'. To solve problems, generally, requires engaging in critical thinking and a submissive is just as likely to be able to engage in critical thinking as a dominant.

Final decisions (for the relationship I share with Sir) are under the authority of Himself. Thinking, however, problem solving and other relationship issues belong to both of us .. to solve if we can, to gain insight or perspective from the other party if needed but certainly are not to be solved only by Him.

What is supposed to happen if 'he' has a problem and needs 'my' insight or perspective? Does that mean he's no longer the dominant and I am suddenly the leader of the relationship?

I don't think so.

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


(in reply to leadership527)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: The importance of communication - 6/13/2009 7:22:21 PM   
gypsygrl


Posts: 1471
Joined: 10/8/2005
From: new york state
Status: offline 		We tend to problem solve together, and I don't tend to have all that many problems that aren't pretty easily solved.  Of course, if I need to lay it all on him, I do--he's the one I share with so he gets it all, whether its a work issue or a family issue he hears about it.  And, he hears about it if he's done something that's not sitting right with me or his um has rubbed me the wrong way.  And, it works the other way too: I listen to him when there's something he needs to work through and, if he has a problem I try to work with him to come up with constructive ways of dealing with it.

So, I aggree with the spirit behind the quote but I think its less a matter of good leadership skills than good relationship skills.  Since leading is about creating relationships it would make sense that a leader would need to have good relationship skills.  And, I might add, that when a boss comes to me with a problem and wants me to help him or her come up with solutions, I think all the more of them.  So, it goes both ways.

_____________________________

“To be happy is to be able to become aware of oneself without fright.” ~Walter Benjamin


(in reply to leadership527)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: The importance of communication - 6/13/2009 8:58:08 PM   
Kalista07


Posts: 4240
Joined: 7/1/2007
Status: offline 		Thanks for that post Jeff. i think i get what You are saying and i agree. i have no desire to tell Him every little thought that enters my head (cause God knows we'd never get to leave the room with the amount of thoughts i have in any given second of the day) But there have been times (recently in fact) where i've struggled and attempted to make decisions on my own...Important decisions such as whether i should leave this relationship and save Him the heartache of watching my health decline.... And as He recently told me, when i attempt to make these decision on my own, or save Him from them, or any other justification i create in my mind, i am by virtue of our dynamics paralyzing His ability to be the Dominant.....
Which isn't to say that i expect Him to have all the answers...Or even that He acts as if He has all the answers. We have a relationship based on trust and communication. Therefore if He has something He is struggling with He is okay sharing it with me.
Because i've apparently been pretty off on most of the things i've posted recently, if i'm completely off base here just smile and nod.....

Kali

< Message edited by Kalista07 -- 6/13/2009 8:59:47 PM >

_____________________________

“Love me when I least deserve it, because that's when I really need it.”
~~Sweedish Proverb


(in reply to leadership527)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: The importance of communication - 6/13/2009 8:58:37 PM   
leadership527


Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SlyStone
I don't know what the point is in posting an OP if you have no interest in alternative views and discussion, other than to lecture and condescend, but I am sure you have your reasons for posting.

Specifically? The point was to see how lessons from leadership outside of BDSM circles resonate here. I didn't think it was all that mysterious.

I also didn't understand that you and I were debating. But here, I concede the point (for the 2nd time). To summarize, I suggested that lessons from corporate and military leadership may apply. You said, "Not in my relationships". Who am I to tell you what does and does not apply in your relationship? If you say it's not relevant, then I concede.

And if you took it as preachy, I also flat out apologize for that too. Honestly, it kind of seemed so blindingly obvious to me that it never occurred to me that anyone else would think of it as preachy. But again, nobody made me god's gift to BDSM. Your relationships, your rules. I'm good with that.

< Message edited by leadership527 -- 6/13/2009 8:59:07 PM >

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to SlyStone)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: The importance of communication - 6/13/2009 9:01:16 PM   
leadership527


Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

BitaTruble said correctly
Wow. I could not disagree more with this statement. Setting aside the fact that it's an absolute, it pre-supposes that because one is a submissive that they can't solve problems on their own.

Yup, you are absolutely right. I was thinking of specific posts where the sub clearly knew that they needed help, but felt it wasn't "subly" to bother their dom. I could've worded that much bettter.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to BitaTruble)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: The importance of communication - 6/13/2009 9:29:47 PM   
DomImus


Posts: 2004
Joined: 3/17/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527
Every time a submissive says to themself, I am not going to bring this problem to my dominant's attention, they are effectively saying, "you are not my dominant."


My submissive has a tendency to internalize things. It's her nature and she was like that long before I ever met her. Sometimes she works through them and sometimes I hear about them later and we deal with them. Everybody does not fit into into your pigeon holes.

(in reply to leadership527)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: The importance of communication - 6/13/2009 9:58:54 PM   
ZenDragoness


Posts: 372
Joined: 1/21/2006
From: Berlin/Germany
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SlyStone

quote:

Obviously, to me such things do make sense but based on the feedback I get, if it doesn't make sense to others, there's no point in talking about it that way




I don't know what the point is in posting an OP if you have no interest in alternative views and discussion, other than to lecture and condescend, but I am sure you have your reasons for posting.

In any case it occurs to me that even what little time I spend here may be better spent elsewhere.

Good luck to you.



Sly Stone,

i thought that leadership sounded more than he had a moment of sulking, because the first two posters did not share his point, as you can see later on he recovers quite quickly. And then you call him out of his behaviour and sulk with him, insofar that you threat to spend your time elsewhere?

I would like to read more of your thoughts, so do not sulk around, yes?

< Message edited by ZenDragoness -- 6/13/2009 10:03:09 PM >

_____________________________

aka Morgaine289

http://goldenerkern.blogspot.com/

(in reply to SlyStone)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: The importance of communication - 6/13/2009 10:08:20 PM   
ZenDragoness


Posts: 372
Joined: 1/21/2006
From: Berlin/Germany
Status: offline 		This is a difficult topic.

I am sure that good leadership entails, that the people been leaden have the trust to talk with the leader about important problems and that the leader have to make the time to hear what they have to say.

On the other hand i am in the camp with SlyStone and Bitatruble, because firstly a good leader (and i my world a dominant person is leading) has to notice some problems beforehand and hinder that they are arise and secondly like BitaTruble said: Which good leader would forgo the the possibility to use the brains and ideas of other people and every human being has his own weak moments or moments were help is needed from others.



_____________________________

aka Morgaine289

http://goldenerkern.blogspot.com/

(in reply to leadership527)
Profile   Post #: 20
Page:   [1] 2   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion >> The importance of communication Page: [1] 2   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.125