RE: Old Guard?

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RE: Old Guard? - 9/13/2004 3:58:06 PM

LordODiscipline

Posts: 384
Joined: 6/28/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: stormiKnightBEAR

As said before NONE of the MASTERS this girl knows REFERS TO THEMSELF as OLD GUARD.

THEY HONOR the OLD GUARD of yesteryear and continue.... yes CONTINUE... the TRADITIONS

Please read the above - they continue to espouse teachings that are relative to what some of the old guard may have done - but not what they all did.

Therefor there is no continuum of what the "old Guard" 'did' - simply their impression of what they experienced and/or what the people in their group desired.

There were many schisms over the issue of rules. Groups formed, divided - some desired specific rules, others wanted a lose coalition of like minded people. Some did not desire S&M in their midst - still others were simply looking for the 'kinky sex' involved and did not want anything else.

All of the divisive arguments and posings you see on the web currently are nothing new (well - except for Gor and other fantastical anticedants of role playing). They are simply more of the same.

So, if you were to talk to someone thirty years from now, and state that all people involved in BDSM clubs behaved "this way" - well, you get the jist.

~J

< Message edited by LordODiscipline -- 9/13/2004 3:59:08 PM >

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RE: Old Guard? - 9/27/2004 9:48:35 PM

bottominwa

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This girl has heard this term used two distinct ways. The first is in reference to the homosexual leather community of structured prior military servicemen after WWII. And if you are a female submissive, or slave...uh...stormi you couldn't be Old Guard...lmao.
she has knwon several Old Guard, and They do tend to be quite restrictive as to lieniage and who can claim what status.
Now, she also has heard the term Old Guard being used alot in chat lately to refer to anyone in the scene prior to 80...lol.
Meaning, you're old so you're old guard. smiles. Seriously, there is an ever prevalent younger more gothic type group coming up behind us, on the West Coast, who refers ot anyone not them as Old Guard...so times change and so to do definitions....much to the annoyance of Our son's godfather who throws a hugely flamboyant temper tantrum at anyone who claims to be Old Guard.

sabrina King

kajiira

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RE: Old Guard? - 9/27/2004 9:59:10 PM

bottominwa

Posts: 240
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stormi,

In all honesty where on Earth have you seen female Old Guard? This has to be a west coast east coast differential, because in all this girl's years in the "life' she has never heard Old Guard referred to as anything other than a homosexual painfully organized and structured set of protocols and heirarchy in the Leather community. (And she has knwon a few who do refer to themselves as Old Guard or Old Guard lineage). Except ofcourse in the last year or so where she has seen it being used online to denote anyone older than 30 lol.

Interesting indeed....

sabrina King

kajiira

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RE: Old Guard? - 9/29/2004 10:46:11 AM

stormiKnightBEAR

Posts: 267
Joined: 3/14/2004
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quote:

This girl has heard this term used two distinct ways. The first is in reference to the homosexual leather community of structured prior military servicemen after WWII. And if you are a female submissive, or slave...uh...stormi you couldn't be Old Guard...lmao.
she has knwon several Old Guard, and They do tend to be quite restrictive as to lieniage and who can claim what status.
Now, she also has heard the term Old Guard being used alot in chat lately to refer to anyone in the scene prior to 80...lol.
Meaning, you're old so you're old guard. smiles. Seriously, there is an ever prevalent younger more gothic type group coming up behind us, on the West Coast, who refers ot anyone not them as Old Guard...so times change and so to do definitions....much to the annoyance of Our son's godfather who throws a hugely flamboyant temper tantrum at anyone who claims to be Old Guard.

Sorry to disappoint you.... but in Dallas you have no idea what OLD GUARD is. Old Guard is not east / west coast... shaking head...As a matter of fact there are submissives and slaves trained in the Old Guard way.

Of all your statements the only one true is

quote:

The first is in reference to the homosexual leather community of structured prior military servicemen after WWII

The very incorrect statement that you made referring to stormi

quote:

And if you are a female submissive, or slave...uh...stormi you couldn't be Old Guard...lmao.

is not only an insult to this girl but shows lack of knowledge.
stormi has never claimed to be Old Guard. stormi said that there was a respected Old Guard Dominant from the Houston area who told others and stormi that stormi has the heart and desire/beliefs of an Old Guard slave.

For anyone else who might be confused. stormi was honored to have been told that. As a submissive/slave trained in the leather world it was for this girl a shining moment. Does not mean everyone believes or thinks the same way? Absolutely not. The only opinion that matters is Master Bear's and HIS choice was stormi.

As for Goth... well that is something this girl will not comment on.stormi believes in letting others do what is right for the person in question and will not disrespect someone else's chosen lifestyle/fetish. stormi believes that everyone should take pride in who and what they are...... it's great to find that others think good of you, and for those that don't... they aren't worth the time to laugh about.

So thank you for the disrespect and insult but it completely missed it's mark.

Enjoy,
stormi
property of Master Bear

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RE: Old Guard? - 9/29/2004 11:20:21 AM

ModeratorSix

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Alright, step back, no hitting on the break. Go to a neutral corner.

Neither one of you are, or can be "right" about this. The only way that you can be "wrong" is to get onto a mud-wrestling match in the middle of the boards. If you are a gay man, in his 70s, from the bay area of California, AND you were in the leather scene "in the day" you MIGHT be able to regale us with your version of how the term "Old Guard" was first applied to SM and know what you are talking about. Neither of you are, and that matters just about diddly, because it doesn't really matter where the term was first used anymore. "Old Guard" in leather culture has become analagous to "Old School". Just as when the term "Old School" is applied in music, or building harleys, or just about anything else, it's a semi-mythcial allusion to how things were done better "back in the day". Neither of you can be "right" about this, because as with many terms in this life, "Old Guard" has come to mean something a little different to just about every individual who uses the term.

Take a deep breath, step back, and let this one go.

Mod6

The opinions that I have expressed here are my own, and don't necessarily reflect the opinions of the owners, admins, or other moderators of collarme.

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RE: Old Guard? - 9/29/2004 11:50:03 AM

Sylverdawn

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Mod Six.. and thats your opinion of what OLD GUARD means.. Vi Johnson, Guy Baldwin, Joseph Bean, Steve Sampson, Master Jim Richards, Master Z the current International Master.. all have their own personal definitions.. Old Guard is one of those terms that incite knee jerk reactions. Old Guard for me simply means a person whose personal philosophy centers around ritual and tradition. But I dont call myself that I dont ascribe to the semi mystical allusion nor do I woship it as a golden age of bdsm. It it what it is.. and laughing at people is simply rude... I would suggest that along with other items that are proscribed from discuss this be one.. Like my mother said.. Dont talk. politics, religion or money in mixed company... in this life style Ive added Gor, Old Guard and slavery.

< Message edited by Sylverdawn -- 9/29/2004 11:51:28 AM >

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RE: Old Guard? - 9/29/2004 4:54:02 PM

LordODiscipline

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Pretty much my point entirely....

People seem to get great enjoyment from being even mildly associated (some people claim much more than that) with anything that even hints at "Old Guard".

The fact is - they don't make them anymore... mold broken, et al. And, these folks appear more than a little silly in their fantastical associations

~J

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RE: Old Guard? - 9/29/2004 4:57:09 PM

ModeratorSix

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quote:

Mod Six.. and thats your opinion of what OLD GUARD means.. Vi Johnson, Guy Baldwin, Joseph Bean, Steve Sampson, Master Jim Richards, Master Z the current International Master.. all have their own personal definitions..

I think that I just said that individuals tend to have their own personal definitions. Those individuals that you have listed above included. It's not a term that anyone can really lay any claim to anymore. Not the guys you listed, not anyone, really. It's out there in the public domain now as it relates to SM, and as I said, when it is used in hushed, reverent tones as in "Guy Baldwin is Old Guard" it carries with it a semi-mythical aura that things were somehow superior in the "golden age". If you disagree with what I'm saying here, that means you have your own personal definition of what Old Guard means, which again, is what I just said.

I don't care enough about the term "Old Guard" to try to impose my definition here to the prejudice of others. What I was pointing out to two women who were on the verge of incivility here is that there isn't a "right answer".

quote:

Take a deep breath, step back, and let this one go.

Is the part of my post with which you seem to be having the most trouble. Frankly, Ive noticed a trend here where you show up when stormi finds herself in the middle of a bruhaha. That is fine and dandy except in cases where someone like me says "Ok, that's enough". From now on, you can assume when you see that it means you too. This will be the last word in the stormi/bottominwa exchange on this thread.

Mod6

< Message edited by ModeratorSix -- 9/29/2004 5:02:10 PM >

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RE: Old Guard? - 9/30/2004 7:32:06 AM

stormiKnightBEAR

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would you please contact stormi off board.

thank you

stormi
property of Master Bear

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RE: Old Guard? - 10/1/2004 12:08:18 AM

bottominwa

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Moderator six,

This girl apologizes for her post after You asking not to post anymore she was typing it apparently as You posted Your post.

sabrina King

House of King

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RE: Old Guard? - 10/1/2004 6:10:51 AM

ModeratorSix

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quote:

This girl apologizes for her post after You asking not to post anymore she was typing it apparently as You posted Your post.

Odd that yours showed up almost a full day after mine. There must be some kind of space/time disturbance between you and I. Not to worry, I have a magic marker just for occasions like that. Lets hope that I won't need it again anytime soon.

Mod6

< Message edited by ModeratorSix -- 10/1/2004 6:11:11 AM >

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RE: Old Guard? - 10/4/2004 9:02:37 PM

Nvernilla

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Thanks for all these links I have been wondering this myself...Mike

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