RE: Have you changed your position on anything? (Full Version)

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sleazybutterfly -> RE: Have you changed your position on anything? (6/2/2009 9:56:47 AM)

I come from a very conservative family, so I think as I got into my 20's I rebelled a bit and was very liberal in my views.  I would say now I am moderate, to conservative. 

I go back and forth on the death penalty.  There are reasons I can see why it's in place, but if I had to put the needles in I couldn't do it.  I am not sure where it's my place to take someone else's life and make that choice.  When do I become what that person is?  Where is that line?  I think that is why I am still undecided for the most part.

I am very conservative on abortion and always will be.

As for polygamy, I don't have a problem with it one way or another.  I don't see any reason jail should be an outcome in any case.

I find that I am more likely now to not look to one side of the aisle or another.  I examine each thing for what it is, then I make an informed decision.  Sometimes this doesn't make me popular with either side, but my life is not a popularity contest.  I know that my religious beliefs play a part in every choice I make and always will.

My thoughts have matured, my experiences have grown greater.  All in all, they make me what I am and that's something I will never be ashamed of.



NorthernGent -> RE: Have you changed your position on anything? (6/2/2009 1:24:30 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou

I simply want to see if others have chosen other sides like me.



Politically speaking I'm liberal. Not much changed there mainly because I have a certain view of human behaviour and I like a balance and hate extremes - Liberalism is the ultimate balanced political philosophy. I can think of one major change of opinion I've had and that's freedom of speech. Having listened to the opinions I reckon the Americans are closer to the mark on this one. I think it was Synergy I was having the discussion with and after running round in circles for a good 20 minutes I pretty much ran out of an argument and thought fuck me I can't dispute much of that.

On the other side of the coin - the board de rigeur is to claim that you can't change someone - well you certainly can help someone to help themselves which is a frightening thought for many (the idea that people don't have a constant inner-self) - this is a belief that I had before I came here and one that remains firm after listening to others' thoughts.




DomImus -> RE: Have you changed your position on anything? (6/2/2009 2:28:29 PM)

Almost everyone changes their perspective on something during their life. From a political standpoint in my younger years I was a liberal leaning moderate. Over the years as I became wiser that pendulum slowly swung to the right. These days I am best described as a conservative moderate although I am a bit further to right now than I was to the left in the beginning. I think I get a little more conservative every time I read the Politics forum here.



kdsub -> RE: Have you changed your position on anything? (6/2/2009 2:45:43 PM)

I have a set of ethics…I like them… I think they are fair and wise…I never change my mind concerning them. But this does not mean I follow a political party line…or line up according to conservative or liberal.

I am practical however and understand the world only revolves around me on a personal level and I must occasionally compromise for the betterment of those around me.

I want to use Capital Punishment as an example of my compromising beliefs… I believe it is necessary and right…but… only if it can be administered fairly. I think this could be done with laws and regulations…but it is not a fair system now.

I cannot remember a time I have changed my mind on factual information where it concerns personal ethics. I have changed my mind when the information I was making a decision on was false.

Butch



windchymes -> RE: Have you changed your position on anything? (6/2/2009 2:57:17 PM)

Oh gosh, a lot of things.

I used to be pretty religious but now have a "who needs it?" attitude.  I would never have taken the Lord's name in vain a few years ago, but now find the phrase "Jesus Tap-dancing Christ" pretty darn funny, though I know it's assured me a spot in hell.  I know this offends some, and I'm sorry, but it's the way I am now.

There was a time when I would have never dated out of my race (white), but now I would.

I used to be offended by homosexuality, but now am outraged at homophobia, and would march to support gay marriage....or any cause that is based on people being who they are and telling the rest of the world to go to hell.

There was a time when I wouldn't allow my kids to watch The Simpsons.  I grew to love Beavis & Butthead, and still watch South Park and Family Guy.

Those are just a few.... 



slaveboyforyou -> RE: Have you changed your position on anything? (6/2/2009 3:05:31 PM)

quote:

I used to be offended by homosexuality, but now am outraged at homophobia, and would march to support gay marriage....or any cause that is based on people being who they are and telling the rest of the world to go to hell.


Oh Lord, I never even thought of that. I was the same way. From my teens up until my early 20's, I used slurs in regard to gays and generally despised them. You get to a point as you mature when you ask yourself, why do I care? What possible reason do I have for hating someone over who they love? It's stupid, and you change your mind. I'm cool with everyone now as long as they aren't harming others. Gay marriage is fine by me, what possible harm could it do? I don't get the resistance to it.



aravain -> RE: Have you changed your position on anything? (6/2/2009 3:06:05 PM)

(replying before reading the thread, this oughtta be fun!)

Yes, I've changed my opinions/thoughts/beliefs before, political and otherwise as a result of message board debates and arguments. I'd imagine you're talking about the former though, so I'll illustrate a few of my political ideologies (and my past feelings) here.

1. Death Penalty. When I was younger (y'know, four years ago [:D]) I used to be anti-death penalty. Like HORRIBLY. There was absolutely nothing you could do to persuade me that the decision to kill someone else could be made without their decision. After talking on some of my favorite message boards about it when I was a freshman in college, I changed my mind. To me it's MORE inhumane (also known as cruel and unusual) to imprison someone for their entire lives than it is to kill them (now). Personally my preference has become focused on removing life-in-prison as a possibility. If someone's done something horrible enough to be removed, entirely, from society for the rest of their lives then that deserves the death penalty.

2. Euthanasia. Not terribly long ago I used to think that euthanasia should be completely legal, and unregulated. After debating with someone over the ethics of suicide and such (I don't see it as wrong, morally or otherwise, and never will), someone else came in as a 'voice of reason' to point out the flaws in my view. I've since ammended it. Euthanasia should be legal (I will always believe this, I'm convinced) but should be regulated by the state. There's such a negative view of death in modern culture I doubt I'll ever see this, and the usual attacks on this viewpoint are that it's immoral. Occasionally someone will point out how we decide if someone should be allowed to commit suicide with (anyone's) assistance... to me it's simple. A waiting period and required visits to various professionals during it to make sure that A) the person still wishes to die and does not doubt this and B) they have filled out various required things (like wills and such) to make sure that their death is not a 'shock' or 'sudden.'

3. Guns. Believe it or not I used to love what I now refer to as 'the peskiest of ammendments' despite not desiring to own a gun, ever. Now I detest it. I want it to go away. I hate guns, I hate the violence they propogate, and I wish that there were a law that anyone who possessed a firearm or gun (of ANY type) immediately went to jail for (at least) 5 years. This is in response to things in my private life, as well as talks online, so it's a bit more viral (and unlikely to change) of an example.

There's just three examples :D I wanna see others' now.



Delphinus -> RE: Have you changed your position on anything? (6/2/2009 3:12:28 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: windchymes

I used to be pretty religious but now have a "who needs it?" attitude.  I would never have taken the Lord's name in vain a few years ago, but now find the phrase "Jesus Tap-dancing Christ" pretty darn funny, though I know it's assured me a spot in hell.  I know this offends some, and I'm sorry, but it's the way I am now.



I am the opposite.  I'm more religious now than ever before in my life.

I am pretty open minded and can be convinced to change my mind about pretty big ticket items, as long as it is a fairly logical argument. 



subtlebutterfly -> RE: Have you changed your position on anything? (6/2/2009 3:19:48 PM)

I'm a butterfly that likes to fly in circles...
but no...sure I mature but I haven't changed my position on any major thing, at least not that I remember.



Kirata -> RE: Have you changed your position on anything? (6/2/2009 3:20:02 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou

I have changed my mind on many things, and I was just wondering if I was the only one. I am typically conservative on most matters.

Oddly enough, I been wondering if I need to change my view of what "I am typically." I've taken two different quizzes online, and with both of them I scored on the Liberal side of the Liberal-Conservative axis, and on the Libertarian side of the Authoritarian-Libertarian axis. Go figure.

If anyone else is interested, here are the links:

World's Smallest Political Quiz
The Political Compass

In both cases, scroll down the page for the link to the quiz. It's at the bottom.

K.







UncleNasty -> RE: Have you changed your position on anything? (6/2/2009 6:02:08 PM)

Good topic sbfy. I've only read a couple of replies and so far it doesn't seem to be spinning out of control.

I'd like to comment on your second point here, and I'm highlighting in bold text a couple of portions.

We have a "prison for profit" system in this country. Private corporations that literally run the facilities with a profit motive. That seems so wrong to me on so many levels. First I think only the state should be running any sort of detention facilities. Secondly to profit on anothers punishment and loss of freedom provides a motive to deprive more people of their freedom - rightly or wrongly.

The Corps do this with a backroom understanding that they will be at or near full capacity the majority of the time. In other words the state, in whatever form assures them they will make sufficient arrests, and obtain sufficient convictions, to keep the full.

The state also has a motive in this arrangement. They don't want to deal with one of their responsibilities, such being to be directly responsible for incarcerating people convicted of crimes. A messy deal that, and one they are more than happy to let go to the lowest bidder.

Do we need wholesale reform of our prisons? You bet.

Do we need wholesale reform of our courts, both criminal and civil? You bet.

I challenge all of you to spend one day a month, for the next year, inside a courtroom as a mere citizen/witness to familiarize yourself on the ways the courts truly operate. What I see is frequent and consistent abuse of process by the very people we look to to protect us through the rule of law.

I was involved in a civil matter a couple of years ago and when the adverse party proffered a piece of evidence to the court 1) I was not allowed to review the document during the proceeding, 2) was asked by the judge why I even wanted to review the document, 3) responded that I wanted to see if it was a legitimate and authenticated document, 4) to which the judge said, and I quote, "I don't care if it is legitimate or not."

When our jurists display such disregard for the law we're in real trouble.

Uncle Nasty



quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou

Number 1: I have changed my views on the death penalty. I used to vehemently support it. I think I was wrong. I keep reading about folks that were innocent on death row. It bothers me. I am not excusing what the guilty killers did, but I think life in a 23 hour lockdown cell is punishment enough. I'd rather be dead. But most important, I'd rather be sure that we have the right guy. Apparently we've been fucking up in that area.

Number 2: I think our entire criminal justice system needs to be revamped. A lot of you know why I think that; I have personal reasons for it. But block that out for a second....We incarcerate more people than any nation on Earth. We incarcerate more folks than Communist China with a population well over a billion. What the fuck is wrong with us? Are we that sick? WE seriously lock up the most people in the WORLD? Why are we doing that? Do you think we may need to make some radical changes in our criminal justice system?

Number 3: Drugs. Why don'd we just legalize the damn things? We operate a tobacco, alcohol, and pharmaceutical industry that makes trillions of dollars. But we make poor Columbian farmers the enemy. We can solve this, and we don't need the military or law enforcement to do it.

Number 4: Our medical industry. Why in the hell can't we insure EVERYONE? Other countries do it for less of a cost. Please don't give me that wait in line bullshit....I've read other studies that disprove it. Everyone in a modern society deserves medical care. We aren't Oliver Twist begging for a extra bowl of gruel. We should have this.

End for now.



sblady -> RE: Have you changed your position on anything? (6/2/2009 6:27:22 PM)

Where to begin?  I've changed on so many things.  At times, I hardly recognize myself. 

I was a devout member of a very charismatic church for quite a few years.  When I started using my own mind  instead of blindly following the leader, I realized the majority of the rules were man made.  These days, I shy away from  any organized religion that preach/teach the "one true way". 

I was fairly liberal when I was younger.  Now I weigh each issue carefully and may go the conservative route.

I definitely agree with you on #' 3 and 4.  

Legalize drugs. 

Provide medical insurance for everyone.  It's difficult to see people who have worked hard all their lives lose their insurance because they're too sick to work, deal with a life threatening illness and get turned down for Medicaid/Medicare. 



subfever -> RE: Have you changed your position on anything? (6/2/2009 6:41:17 PM)

quote:

Have you changed your position on anything?


Absolutely.

My political views have slowly evolved over 40 years from liberal to what could be best described as libertarian socialism.

Also, on a personal level, I no longer believe in abortion... except in cases of rape or risk to the mother's life. I do not advocate government interference, however.



Louve00 -> RE: Have you changed your position on anything? (6/2/2009 7:23:25 PM)

I hear there is a saying that goes something like...."If you're not a liberal when you're young, you have no heart.  As you get older (and wiser) you become more conservative."  That being said, I tend to veer to the liberal side, despite considering myself older and wiser.  But more accurately, I really tend to think in terms of issues...not liberal or conservative...just what *my* belief systems are.  If you can show me something (or teach me something) I didn't know based on fact...my belief in a thing might change.  But there is also a saying that reads something to the effect of..."Never underestimate your ability to change, and never over-estimate your ability to change someone else." So, for me, its based on the person's facts and whether it makes sense (or pertains) to me.

And yes...my position on things have changed, changed back, changed again, and might continue to change yet again, too...depending on what cause or issue you're talking about.



samboct -> RE: Have you changed your position on anything? (6/2/2009 7:37:11 PM)

I've learned a few things over the years-

1)  Transitioned from atheist to agnostic.  I can't see how anyone can definitively say that the big bang occurred without some type of agency, but Nietzche may be right -God is dead.
2)  Disavowal of collective guilt.  When I was younger, I was pretty aggravated with the people living in Germany when I learned about the Holocaust and I thought that being Jewish entitled me to some type of consideration (a rather amorphous and ill considered thought) And when I was younger, the idea of visiting Berlin would give me the heebie jeebies.  After reading Len Deighton, I got some appreciation of the town, and when I visited it 2 years ago, I had a ball.  Now I recognize that there's a terrific amount of propaganda that has distorted the role of the average German citizen under the Nazis, and while intellectually, I might have made the argument that an individual citizen of Germany bore no responsibility for the Holocaust, that idea really hit home when I looked through some of the Gestapo files.  It dawns on me that a chunk of the US propaganda is to show how different we are from the Germans, but the reality is that there are some very uncomfortable similarities.
3)  More tolerance for opposing political and other viewpoints.  I used to have a strong aversion to anyone that described themselves as a "good Christian" figuring that they were probably hypocritical and self serving.  (I had a grandmother who was like that- not a nice person.)  Then I got "adopted" by a family in Florida who are strongly religious, vote the other party, and are some of the warmest and most tolerant people I know.  If Jesus Christ would show up on Earth again, and he sought anyone that embodied his teachings, he could rest easy visiting these guys.
4)  Strong agreement with Uncle Nasty concerning our legal system and its deficiencies.  Before I'd met any judges, my impression of them was largely positive (I think formed from TV and movies.)  In reality- the legal system is a nightmare, and the judges bear as much of the blame as any of the lawyers.  I've seen a judge assist a guy who bilked investors out of tens of millions, blew his stack at me, and his buddy wound up serving no time and setting up the scam again in India.  I've had judges tell me when I fought a speeding ticket- that my conviction wasn't based on science.  (And I have to go back to the court in a few days for jury duty.  I did warn the judge that he was tainting me as a potential juror.)
5)  Strong agreement with Merc (he may be ROFL if he reads this one) on the need for lower taxes for businesses.  Starting your own business will quickly convince anyone that you can't put enough money away for a rainy day (like now!) given our current tax system- and it's anything but progressive.
6)  I'm learning on this board, that just because you agree with someone on one point, that may not carry over to the next.  Discussing things with folks that have a different viewpoint and express it clearly is often more of a learning experience than finding someone you agree with- but it's nice to have some moral support on occasion.

Sam



samboct -> RE: Have you changed your position on anything? (6/2/2009 7:38:14 PM)

LouveOO

That was Churchill...



LookieNoNookie -> RE: Have you changed your position on anything? (6/2/2009 7:40:55 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou

I have changed my mind on many things, and I was just wondering if I was the only one. I am typically conservative on most matters. I would welcome us to be honest here. I do not wish this to turn into a pissing contest. If you don't agree....cool. Say so and move on. It's not a order; it's just a suggestion. If you want to be a prick, than that' on you. I simply want to see if others have chosen other sides like me.


Wouldn't want to be a prick.

As best as I can tell from the above, you want to let everyone know that you've changed a lot, moreover, you don't want this to become a pissing contest.

I would agree that you've changed a lot....and I won't piss on you.

(Sorry....one more thing...you're conservative).

I think that about covers everything.



aravain -> RE: Have you changed your position on anything? (6/2/2009 8:59:35 PM)

~FR~

I'm interested because some others have noted that their beliefs play a role in their political ideologies.

My biggest question (asked as respectfully as possible) to this is: why?

Some things are completely against my personal/religious beliefs that I support politically (temporary incarceration, 'late' term abortion, cremation of dead bodies, etc.). I'm one of the biggest proponents of separation of, not just church, but RELIGION/Personal ideologies and state; to me it fits the ideals of 'freedom of choice' much more succinctly than making something illegal on a purely moral/religious basis. Just because *I* wouldn't smoke marijuana, for instance, doesn't mean that I think it should be made illegal (to use a 'real' example); just because I wouldn't purchase a hooker's services (I probably would if they were legal, actually, but this is to illustrate my point) doesn't mean I think it should be illegal (though I do think it should be heavily regulated and STATE run with state benefits for the pros); (this is an extreme example coming up) just because I think that sleeping with women is gross and I think it's "wrong" *doesn't* mean I think it should be made illegal.

There's an ethical bent to it, too... real simple and easy for the state not to get far too Machiavellian. Things like Murder and such would remain illegal... because it causes harm for citizens (in this case, killing them)! Other laws (regarding theft and stuff) would also be simply applies; it impinges on the rights and/or property of another citizen, etc. etc. etc.

So there's my answers to the inevitable return 'why' that I'll get for how I apply my political beliefs.



slaveboyforyou -> RE: Have you changed your position on anything? (6/2/2009 9:54:54 PM)

quote:

Wouldn't want to be a prick.

As best as I can tell from the above, you want to let everyone know that you've changed a lot, moreover, you don't want this to become a pissing contest.

I would agree that you've changed a lot....and I won't piss on you.

(Sorry....one more thing...you're conservative).


Hmmm? As best as I can tell, you are attempting to be an ass. I have changed a lot, and I don"t think you are offering an appreciative notice. You're just being a dick. Well.....nice try. It won't work. Nice try.



FullfigRIMAAM1 -> RE: Have you changed your position on anything? (6/2/2009 11:28:01 PM)

Thank God for open minds!   Color me impressed.
It's a dangerous think when people are absolutely certain, and unwilling to learn anything new.
I grew up in a conservative (priest and nuns coming over) household, and hold some conservative views in regard to individual vs social responsibility/freedom.   Having learned and experienced life and read a bit though, I could not remain what I initially was= more than a little conservative/more liberal than conservative.   M



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