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Service Tops - 5/26/2009 9:43:56 PM   
HeavansKeeper


Posts: 1254
Joined: 5/14/2007
Status: offline 		The concept of service tops intrigues me. I'd like to ask some questions regarding the field. While I certainly welcome all respondents and responses, my questions are not focused toward pro-dominants.

How do you define service top?

For those who have been bottom to a service top, did it differ from bottoming/submitting to someone who aligns as a dominant and/or wants to dominate?

Any dominants feel they are sometimes a service top (by whatever definition you attribute)? [i.e. somtimes just doing it for the bottom?*]

Submissives and natural bottoms: How would you feel about being a service top? If the situation were two submissives, would you act as the top to serve the other by providing what they need (the opportunity to serve)? Does the situation change for you if ordered to do so by your dominant?

Particularly to those who switch fairly often: Do you ever see yourself as a service top?

Feel free to share experiences and any questions with responses.




*Pet, I know you're going to read this and think "OMG he's just topping me because I'm a selfish needy girl! I never meant to be selfish! I only want him to be happy!" Relax girly. I'm in this by choice... For the sandwiches and for someone to take my boots off for me <3

Edit to add: Also the tater tots.



< Message edited by HeavansKeeper -- 5/26/2009 9:44:22 PM >

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RE: Service Tops - 5/26/2009 11:34:46 PM   
onlyfreelycaged


Posts: 254
Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline 		I think that a service top caters more to the bottom. I think the key were here is top and bottom.. I don't see how it can fit into something outside of play..

(in reply to HeavansKeeper)
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RE: Service Tops - 5/27/2009 12:26:11 AM   
Andalusite


Posts: 2492
Joined: 1/25/2009
Status: offline 		I have been a Top rather than a Domme in a couple of LTRs, so not involving D/s doesn't mean that it is just play. I don't generally think of myself as "service topping," except when I literally thwack someone to their specifications, usually if they are a Dominant with a masochistic bent, or if I am being taught a new technique. Specifically doing a particular, detailed scene as requested by a bottom would also fall into this category - I haven't usually done so, but wouldn't be opposed to it as long as they didn't ask for anything I actively dislike or which violates my boundaries, and as long as they reacted in a way I enjoy.

I've occasionally requested that a scene include a specific implement, or even negotiated that a scene only include something specific once (rather extreme suspension bondage - he also did a bit of sensation play), and have "stunt bottomed" for classes a couple of times. I didn't think of it as them performing service topping, though I suppose you could consider it to be an example of it. They seemed to have fun, and so did I. A couple of them jokingly said something along the lines of, "I'm not an evil sadist, I'm just a fluffy service top!" but it had a strong edge of sarcasm, and they enjoy hurting me and other people they play with.

Just to clarify, I'm a switch, but am *not* a pro. I have had a relationship as a Domme for 5 years and as a submissive for 3 years. In between the two, I was in relationships lasting roughly 3 months to 2 years as a top, a bottom, or as a switch, without any overt D/s dynamic, though leaning slightly Domme (they generally catered to me, I set the pace for most of the sexual and kink stuff, etc., whether they tied me up and thwacked me, vice versa, or both).

< Message edited by Andalusite -- 5/27/2009 12:32:00 AM >

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RE: Service Tops - 5/27/2009 4:10:44 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		Service topping is something I define as any time the scene is constructed by and specifically for the needs of the bottom.  This is different to Me than topping where I'm running the show.  I don't do much service topping, but there have certainly been times that I have.  Occasions such as a friend's birthday or when someone wanted a particular experience come to mind.  I would also put it in the category of tit for tat exchange.  Oh, you're going to help Me move?  OK.  In exchange, I'll do the mummification scene that you want so badly.  (Real example, btw.)

_____________________________

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Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

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RE: Service Tops - 5/27/2009 5:59:01 AM   
MsFlutter


Posts: 1305
Joined: 11/12/2008
From: East Coast
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

Service topping is something I define as any time the scene is constructed by and specifically for the needs of the bottom.  .)


I agree with LP's definition. A former relationship had soured me on the whole service top concept because that was somehow where I ended up be default and I really resented it. I've since compartmentalized that particular experience and it no longer bothers me to occasionally take the role of a service top.

Special occasions come to mind, demonstrations are another reason. It is not so horrible because clearly someone must think you have the skills to fill the role. Then there is always the friend who has a crushing week, their head is about to explode and they lack a dedicated partner to play with. Sometimes it is about knowing an inexperienced submissive who is all over the map and a good candidate for a bad decision. It may, at times, rightfully be described as philanthropic.
 
 

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RE: Service Tops - 5/27/2009 7:41:27 AM   
pompeii


Posts: 934
Joined: 1/4/2007
From: Silicon Valley, San Jose, California
Status: offline 		I always play with the bottom's needs in mind. You could say I'm a "service Top" until she orgasms enough times, then it's time to service me. That takes, after a few hours of play, only a couple of minutes. So I'm a 90/10 service top, you could say.

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RE: Service Tops - 5/27/2009 10:34:21 AM   
HeavansKeeper


Posts: 1254
Joined: 5/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pompeii

I always play with the bottom's needs in mind. You could say I'm a "service Top" until she orgasms enough times, then it's time to service me. That takes, after a few hours of play, only a couple of minutes. So I'm a 90/10 service top, you could say.


I wonder how many dominants are more alike than different.

Lady Pact gives a strong definition, to be sure. But I wonder, Lady Pact, if you told your boy to dominate some other (consenting) party, does the act of a submissive dominating garner some sort of label or is it "part of the job"?



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RE: Service Tops - 5/27/2009 10:43:21 AM   
Jeptha


Posts: 780
Joined: 9/18/2008
From: Portland, Oregon
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MsFlutter

... It may, at times, rightfully be described as philanthropic.

I like that line!

I had a partner once who was into more "artistic" bondage and beatings than I had the attention span for.

I appreciated the aesthetics of rope, and I realized that with practice, one could become as efficient (or moreso) with rope than with buckles and snaps.

But I found that for my purposes, I already had command of buckles and snaps (things like cuffs, belts, carabiners, etc.), and didn't feel the urgency of learning to rope and ride.

I would take a turn with the rope once in a while, trying to do something more elaborate than "rope handcuffs", but eventually we did end up farming some of the bondage out.

That is; she had a friend, or a group (I forget which now - it's been a few years) with whom she would do bondage platonically.
{begin rant}
I'm going to just add a note about the "trust factor" as it relates to the above;
I've had partners with whom I'd be comfortable allowing that sort of farming out of kinky stuff, and other partners with whom I'd be less comfortable.

I consider that I loved them all about the same, so why was the trust factor different?

Two things spring to mind: 1) The bondage girl had a good ability to say "no" and displayed it often, and 2) she demonstrated a compulsion to share the truth with me, whether good or bad - and that is a key element: that there was some bad shared along with the good.

She knew that I relied on her to give me as much of the complete truth as possible and she took that duty seriously.
{end rant}

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RE: Service Tops - 5/27/2009 11:30:14 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HeavansKeeper
I wonder how many dominants are more alike than different.

Lady Pact gives a strong definition, to be sure. But I wonder, Lady Pact, if you told your boy to dominate some other (consenting) party, does the act of a submissive dominating garner some sort of label or is it "part of the job"?



HK, I would need some clarification to be able to answer your question properly.  Are you asking about dominating or topping?  In My personal view, there is a difference.

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

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RE: Service Tops - 5/27/2009 12:36:10 PM   
HeavansKeeper


Posts: 1254
Joined: 5/14/2007
Status: offline 		Lady Pact,

I don't intend to equivocate dominating and topping. I seek as much information as I can get.

How do you feel about having your submissive top someone?
How would you feel about your submissive being a dominant to someone?

I agree, the issues are distinct, but if you'd be so kind I wish to hear both answers.

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... You've waited your whole life for this moment...

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RE: Service Tops - 5/27/2009 12:57:19 PM   
leadership527


Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline 		@OP

In my admittedly very limited experience, I have "service top" in the same category as "topping from the bottom"... that is to say I find both of them to be symantically empty. What I can tell you is that I care a great deal about what is good and pleasing to Carol and that is reflected in my commands. Carol would not be interested in any dominant for whom that was not true.

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I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

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RE: Service Tops - 5/27/2009 1:40:00 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		I view service top as something that happens when you aren't in a relationship and therefore must negotiate play. Dominants can have things entirely their way but a service top who doesn't provide what the bottom wants isn't going to be invited for a repeat performance nor garner a reputation of someone who keeps his word.

But you can't dominate someone you just met, all you can do is top them. So if they see you display florentine flogging and come asking you to do it on them, then should you agree you are service topping. If you agree but instead cane them leaving bloody welts, then you're a liar.

Personally I wish there was a term equivalent for service tops for a bottom. I've seen stunt double used occasionally but have always thought that applies more to workshops and such and not just an agreement between two people to have a mutually satisfactory scene.

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RE: Service Tops - 5/27/2009 1:56:00 PM   
Andalusite


Posts: 2492
Joined: 1/25/2009
Status: offline 		Haeven'sKeeper, almost all of my relationships have been monogamous with no outside play, but I'm willing to consider one with outside topping and/or bottoming. I would not feel comfortable with me or my hypothetical partner engaging in D/s outside of the relationship, especially casually. So, I'd probably be fine with a submissive partner who was service topping others, or regular topping of others, whether or not it was at my direction, as long as he and the other person involved respected my boundaries.

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RE: Service Tops - 5/27/2009 5:36:35 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HeavansKeeper

Lady Pact,

I don't intend to equivocate dominating and topping. I seek as much information as I can get.

How do you feel about having your submissive top someone?

In clip's case, I wouldn't be very fond of the idea.  It's not something that he enjoys.  There was one experiment that he did with his wife that I didn't see as a wonderful success.  There were benefits in it for him, but My perception of the occasion wasn't that he enjoyed the topping for the sake of topping.  Which leads Me to My various answers for your questions.

In My opinion, unless a submissive has topping a third party as a hard limit, if that submissive has been commanded to do so, it should be done.  I believe that to be the case whether the submissive (Mine) likes the activity or not.  Submission does not mean only obeying the commands that they want to.  It means they have turned their control over to the Dominant (Me).

If I happen to have a submissive who enjoys topping, I'd say game on.  If I happen to have a submissive who doesn't enjoy topping, I would be considering why I would want to command it.  For a service topping scenario, it most likely wouldn't happen.  Service topping, as I stated earlier, is usually geared specifically with the benefit of the bottom (the third party) in mind.  If My sub didn't enjoy it, I would have to see some benefit for him that would be in addition to the bottom getting their needs met.  Something such as I would feel that the experience would enhance his personal growth or it was a skill that, in some way, I felt he needed.  My sub's interests will always be considered more important.  Even in those situations where service topping might be appropriate for the bottom in question.

quote:

How would you feel about your submissive being a dominant to someone?

If My submissive is wanting to Dominate someone, I would most likely consider that person to be a switch.  I have no issue with that.  However, I am a believer of what I call the trickle down theory.  Any sub who is owned by a switch that belongs to Me, means that I own their  sub as well.  That may not have come out very clear, so allow Me to offer the following for clarity.


Let's suppose you, HK, happened to be a switch.  If the submissive side of you was collared to Me, and your girl was collared to you, by extension, she would be collared to Me as well.  Ultimately, she has given Me her authority because you have given Me yours.

quote:

I agree, the issues are distinct, but if you'd be so kind I wish to hear both answers.

As you can see, the difference did come through in the answers I attempted to give.  I hope I was able to express My thoughts on the matter.


_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

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RE: Service Tops - 5/27/2009 6:06:42 PM   
sweetsub1957


Posts: 2201
Joined: 4/28/2009
Status: offline 		"If the situation were two submissives, would you act as the top to serve the other by providing what they need (the opportunity to serve)?"

i'm kind of new to this and 100% submissive but, for a brief time awhile before i  met Sir, i had a switch for a play partner.  Partway through the encounters i would Top him by doing things totally to please him.  i didn't do those things because i enjoyed doing them, but i did them because i enjoyed pleasing him.  Would that be a service Top?  At least that's how i understand it.


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In lowering yourself to talking behind my back, you're perfectly positioned to kiss my ass.

An it harm none, do what ye wilt.

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RE: Service Tops - 5/27/2009 8:01:22 PM   
AlexandraLynch


Posts: 778
Joined: 3/24/2008
Status: offline 		I define service topping as agreeing to provide a set of sensations for someone bottoming. This has nothing to do with dominance and submission. My husband is in no way a submissive, but occasionally enjoys sensation play, and I enjoy making him happy (I don't suppose we'd be married if I didn't!) and so sometimes I'll get out the little strap and the clothespins and take my hair down and we'll have fun. It doesn't get me off, but I am also old enough to know that not everything has to end in simultaneous mutual orgasm.

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RE: Service Tops - 5/28/2009 4:29:16 AM   
Fitznicely


Posts: 1597
Joined: 10/18/2006
Status: offline 		I agree with LP's definition...service topping I understand to be when the sub has requested the specifics of a scene.

I understand how it's useful for some situations, but personally, it would sit uncomfortably with me. I don't and wouldn't play with a sub I hadn't gotten to know and understand innately, so would hope I'd be able and imaginative enough to stay "properly" in charge.

I've not had the opportunity to play in public, or at least with strangers as yet, but I can imagine doing so. I think that's the only situation where I'd be happy to put the bottom's expectations first, but that would pretty much depend on the situation.

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RE: Service Tops - 5/28/2009 12:30:11 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		Fitz, if it helps any, I don't do a lot of service topping Myself.  As I said before, I've done it for something of a birthday present and I've done it a couple of times when I've had friends who were getting in a bit deep with sub frenzy.  (I'd rather see them play with Me, who is safer than allowing them to do something stupid.)  I don't do service topping in any form unless it's someone that I know and know well.  It's never strangers.  If it was, I'd put My hand out for some cash and just go pro.

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

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RE: Service Tops - 5/28/2009 1:37:09 PM   
sweetsub1957


Posts: 2201
Joined: 4/28/2009
Status: offline 		LadyPact, You are so cool.

_____________________________

Member: Lance's Fag Hags.

"That's not just a chip on her shoulder, that's the whole potato!" ~Lady Angelika~

In lowering yourself to talking behind my back, you're perfectly positioned to kiss my ass.

An it harm none, do what ye wilt.

(in reply to LadyPact)
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RE: Service Tops - 5/28/2009 6:03:18 PM   
chamberqueen


Posts: 1597
Joined: 10/25/2007
From: Kalamazoo, MI
Status: offline 		I was basically a service top.  I was so concerned with the fulfillment of my subs that my only real enjoyment came from getting them to realize things about themselves that they never would have if it wouldn't have been for me.  They never knew that - they thought of me as a Mistress who knew how to bring out the best in them.  They were not cheated in any way at all.  If anything, I was cheating myself.

When I decided to see if I enjoyed the role of submissive more I found that it was actually less work.  The most surprising part to me was the range of emotions I went through since I was no longer in charge.  In my role as the top there weren't a whole lot of emotions to deal with; as a bottom there were an incredible range of situations I had no control over and had some surprising gut reactions to them.  I have since topped a few times and found that I had even more empathy for my subs.


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