RE: no communication as a tool (Full Version)

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cherylnchains -> RE: no communication as a tool (5/18/2009 7:20:12 AM)

This is a really great and informative thread.  i recently had a situation that still baffles me about the "communication cutoff" .  i am one who usually tends to work issues out myself and am usually told that i need to allow the dominant to carry the weight of more issues.. but.. when i do come to a dominant communicating something on my mind.. One,. i get told "it is not about you slave, get over it, deal with it" or, they listen, we talk and it seems things have been figured out.. but then they just cut off communication. ... for a few days i can make excuses for the dominant. Oh , he must be busy, maybe the conversation didnt go as well as i thought and he is still reflecting.. and so forth. But.. after i try to initiate contact, no return, hang ups, and in my head this is childish.. if the man is punishing me for communicating, or the way i communicated, then just say so, tell me it is a punishment (atleast then i can reflect deeper , see the error of my ways, etc).. if not i will view the cut off in a negative manner after 3 days.  The last time this happened i sent an email explaining how the communication cut off was making me feel.(after 6 or 7 days). well to make a long story short.. he moved on because my email was disrespectful and out of line... shrugs.. yes.. he was just looking for a reason to leave the relationship .. this is how i see it atleast.  
Anyways, what i really wanted to say here :
  i cannot see the cut off as a tool unless it is discussed, or communicated first as to why, how long and what should be accomplished during the cut off, followed by a discussion of how everyone felt during the silence, was was accomplished .  Basically... communication leading into the silence , communications coming out of the silence has proven to be a great tool and good bonding experience.  In many experiences, if the dominant cuts off communication in this manner, he too suffers.. something else the sub should reflect on as well.



CallaFirestormBW -> RE: no communication as a tool (5/18/2009 7:49:37 AM)

While communication is a great thing, I can tell you that one of the most profound growth experiences in my -life- was 30 days of silence, required by my spiritual path, and sprung on me with barely 2 days to get my life in order (they wouldn't have even given me that, but I had a 'day job' that required talking, as I was a tech support rep for Netscape, back in the day) and no explanation of what I was supposed to get out of it or what I was supposed to do with all that time. I was not allowed communication with my Elders, the community,... even co-workers (bosses at my job were -great-, they put me in a data-entry position where I didn't have to talk for the 30 days!). I could call 911 in a physical emergency, but had to fend for myself for emotional/spiritual crises and couldn't even order food out (it wasn't a horrible thing... I remembered how much I loved to cook that month!). I learned more about myself than I ever really wanted to know. Ok, so it was all useful (unlike input from others, which may not always be so useful), but still, it was, perhaps, the most masochistic experience I've been through. On the other hand, these days, when I can't seem to get my head straight, the first thing that comes to mind is "I need a week of complete silence to get straight with the voices in my head". *chuckles*

Yes, I think that sometimes intentional lack of communication can be an outstanding tool to push personal development to the next level. Done it, and now I -use- it, and I understand -why- it is as effective as it is, so I've become a 'true believer' in controlled absence of communication for specific growth-related purposes.

Dame Calla



NuevaVida -> RE: no communication as a tool (5/18/2009 7:51:19 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: agirl

Pretty confused here.




I'm going to second this.  Lally, in your OP you said "what if the dominant chooses that communication is 'off' for the time being or communication should not be necessary..."  but your follow up post says he was just busy, but texted you.  These, to me, are entirely different scenarios.  Busy is busy, and yes, when he's busy that's a great time to use the time wisely - be it sorting out things in your head or doing something else that's productive.  Choosing to cut off communication is a deliberate act of pushing the submissive away.  Both scenarios you mentioned have entirely different intentions and purposes.

I'm glad you were able to sort things out in your head, but this may explain why most of the responses to your OP spoke as they did about communication cut-off.



Andalusite -> RE: no communication as a tool (5/18/2009 7:53:28 AM)

I agree with agirl here, it doesn't sound like it was a deliberate tool at all, and he did IM you at least once. It wasn't that he was avoiding talking with you to let you process things, but just that he was too busy to talk! In general, I think that it's perfectly reasonable to decide to wait a set period of time before discussing a particular topic again. For example, if they need some time to collect their thoughts on it, or if it has to do with a limit, or some such, time is sometimes required. I think it's best to at least check in occasionally, even so, but I can certainly understand a topic being "talked out" to the point where no new information is coming up, or where emotions are high, putting the whole thing on the back burner for a while. I don't think that requires complete lack of contact in other areas, though!



lally2 -> RE: no communication as a tool (5/18/2009 8:42:26 AM)

hm, well, it started out as a generic question, based on how i had ciphoned the two days through my little brain and found it useful and hence the post on whether others found the use of 'no communication' a useful tool in getting people to sort things out in their head.  being an emotionally driven person, the need to channel those emotions in a proactive way prevents meltdown.

but by the end of the weekend id lost the will to be a good slave and put my feelings to one side or keep those feelings inside of myself and private, so i inflicted them on you [&:].  now ive reached the point that others have mentioned, where i feel that ive retreated and withdrawn into myself.

so in the spirit of research i can honestly say that 'no communication' without a reason of any kind, sucks. 

hugs to you all. lallyxxx




SimplyMichael -> RE: no communication as a tool (5/18/2009 11:02:07 AM)

Let me put another spin on this topic.

I am a very talented (although imperfect) dominant, I have trained people to desire some very sick shit, I have taken women to places they never expected to go, sex as good as it gets, and I have even managed to use punishment well.

However, I have never ever ever gotten the "no communication" thing to do anything but fuck things up, break trust, cause problems, and or undermine relationships.

Perhaps I lack the skill, but it just doesn't seem to work for me, there may or may not be a lesson in that for people.



agirl -> RE: no communication as a tool (5/18/2009 11:33:53 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: lally2

hm, well, it started out as a generic question, based on how i had ciphoned the two days through my little brain and found it useful and hence the post on whether others found the use of 'no communication' a useful tool in getting people to sort things out in their head.  being an emotionally driven person, the need to channel those emotions in a proactive way prevents meltdown.

but by the end of the weekend id lost the will to be a good slave and put my feelings to one side or keep those feelings inside of myself and private, so i inflicted them on you [&:].  now ive reached the point that others have mentioned, where i feel that ive retreated and withdrawn into myself.

so in the spirit of research i can honestly say that 'no communication' without a reason of any kind, sucks. 

hugs to you all. lallyxxx




And no communication WITH a reason sucked too...? Or it appeared to. It does for me, I know that much. Why WOULDN'T I miss that?

You WERE given a reason. It's not being a *good slave* to have to get on with life when your partner/owner/master is busy.......it's just a part of life for everyone.

You've retreated and withdrawn because he was busy?....What does it take for you to be a *good slave*? If you were lonely, down and missing contact .......that's nothing to DO with being a *good slave*. It's because you like the attention, the interaction and the interest, surely? When he's *busy* you have to do without it.......there's no need to dress it up as anything else at all.

If you think he had NO good reason not to contact you, that he's HOLDING it from you for some reason you're unable to either see or grasp....then ok, I can see why you'd  feel unsettled beyond *missing him*.

agirl











CreativeDominant -> RE: no communication as a tool (5/18/2009 12:51:40 PM)

Anyone who has read my posts on these boards with more than a passing interest or anyone I have spoken with knows the value I place on communication.  However, they also know the value I place on a submissive being able to look within herself and they also know that I want an adult as a partner and as a submissive, not a child NOR an adult incapable of figuring things out.

These feelings are well-borne out by Lady SOS's post:  I want to control a submissive's life in those areas that they truly need guidance in, I don't want to be their replacement for responsibility over their own life.  I don't want to be the "worker" so all they have to concentrate on is pleasing me in a way that I've done other work on so I could tell them how to do so. 

These feelings are also born out by RumpusParable's post:  I too have dealt with those who wanted to talk something to death.  While almost every subject can be discussed and observed from infinite perspectives, does it need to be?  Sometimes, a fuck is just a fuck...it is not a way of expressing those deeper inner feelings that we sometimes don't express, it is not a way of exerting all my control over a submissive in contrast to her yielding to my stronger will...sometimes I'm just horny and need to get off.  Now, that happens because I do control the sexuality in my D/s relationships but what I am saying is that there is not always an agenda at work and I don't always feel the need to talk about it afterwards.  Tis the same in any other D/s work...some commands and the motivations behind them need to be discussed, some other areas need to be discussed, some insecurities need to be addressed but sometimes, after a thing has been looked at---discussed---gone over in the same manner a hundred times---then it is time for the submissive to look within and THEN come to me. 

None of this means that other communication stops...I like to talk so withdrawing all communication is not an option for me...but on this subject or that subject, the communication is done until a resolution is reached OR, as noted, it doesn't NEED communication to cover the act that just occurred.



LafayetteLady -> RE: no communication as a tool (5/18/2009 1:22:53 PM)

I still say that if at any time communication is stopped WITHOUT explanation, the dominant is using it as a cop out and acting childishly.  You want someone to reflect on something they did and figure out for themselves how to change that behavior, that's fine.  But dropping off the face of the earth for a while because you are "angry/upset/disappointed" without the discussion first is just like a little kid having a temper tantrum.  Everyone has their own way, but I can say that for myself, someone cuts that communication off with me, without discussion, they might as well keep going, because it is behavior that I wouldn't tolerate to begin with, regardless of MY position in the relationship.



oceanwinds -> RE: no communication as a tool (5/18/2009 2:43:25 PM)

It really depends on the person Lally. For me it was a wonderful tool, though not one i would want to repeat tomorrow. no communication forced me to go within and deep and guess what i found? :) strength.



YourhandMyAss -> RE: no communication as a tool (5/18/2009 2:48:36 PM)

I would not choose a dominant who thought non communication when things were rough was a good idea, because I don't believe it is a good idea, and we're sorely non compatible.

quote:

ORIGINAL: lally2

communication is key, but what if the Dominant chooses that communication is 'off' for the time being or communication should not be necessary the submissive should just accept the rules and get on with it.  what if communication isnt an option and the submissive is left to deal with her own issues.  suck it and see.  stop hanging off the Dominant for reassurance and work it out.


and if it is a tool that submissives have experienced how have they managed to get through it and what were the results.  have any Dominants here used this as an option to get a submissive to work on something and if so, have they found it useful or not particularly effective in the end.







Andalusite -> RE: no communication as a tool (5/19/2009 8:40:31 AM)

I'm still confused - you said there was no communication for no reason, and at the same time, that he IM'd you, but was too busy to talk more. Do you feel that whatever he was busy with was less important than talking to you, or that he's obligated to spend a lot of time talking with you even when he's told you that he can't? I think a lot of people are getting kind of worked up on your behalf, and viewing your owner negatively, because you are presenting it in a way that makes him look bad.



breatheasone -> RE: no communication as a tool (5/19/2009 8:51:49 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

I still say that if at any time communication is stopped WITHOUT explanation, the dominant is using it as a cop out and acting childishly.  You want someone to reflect on something they did and figure out for themselves how to change that behavior, that's fine.  But dropping off the face of the earth for a while because you are "angry/upset/disappointed" without the discussion first is just like a little kid having a temper tantrum.  Everyone has their own way, but I can say that for myself, someone cuts that communication off with me, without discussion, they might as well keep going, because it is behavior that I wouldn't tolerate to begin with, regardless of MY position in the relationship.

QFT (quoted for TRUTH)



DesFIP -> RE: no communication as a tool (5/19/2009 9:31:05 AM)

He gets busy, I get busy, that's just life. Even with that, we text or email a couple of times a day. Because really it doesn't take more than 30 seconds to send a quick email with a list of what you're doing and when you think you can get a break.

But that's different from just stopping communication abruptly. If he had told me upfront that abandonment until he felt like getting back into touch was one of his things, I would have said thanks but no thanks. If he had told me that he would always try to make time to talk when I needed it and then sprung the sudden abandonment on me, I would not have trusted him because he would have proved himself a liar.

It simply isn't something that works for me.

Beyond that, although there are things I can eventually figure out on my own, I see no reason to take three times as long and do a piss poor job if he could give me five minutes of advice. Or if I could hand it over to my accountant. Or therapist for that matter. Things I'm not good at I can muddle through but not well, and there's no practical reason for me to spend four days doing a bad job of it when one phone call would speed up the process and improve the end product. Some things I simply will never be good at.



Prinsexx -> RE: no communication as a tool (5/19/2009 1:44:42 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: lally2

i know that people will talk about the value of communication in all things, im not asking about that, lets accept that as a given.  it is the withdrawal of communication that seems to occur that im curious about.



There is no such thing as no communication. So-called absence of communication is the communication.
So my response to what i feel is about you personally and then more stuff about communication in general...This is probably the last thing you want to hear but think of this as a compassion exercise. Look at yourself from his point of view. What is it that he is withdrawing from? A behaviour? A belief you hold about yourself? Something that transpires between you as a part of the dynamic?
i feel the dominant position is often a lonely one, even though he has two of you right? The necessary and sufficient condition being that transfer of authority takes place once and within that there is an assumption of consent. Then in an ideal world each party knows and accepts their given position. But neither sub or dom may feel it's SUFFICIENT. And whilst it seems acceptable for submissives to need/want/ask for/beg for a domijant's position to be re-affirmed in ritual, the more difficult request that this is so is a request that a dominant might feel the need to make. In simple terms what i am saying is that i feel a withdrawal of communication is quite possibly that: an unspoken need to affirm authority. In the silence can you accept your position and therefore consent to his? It's a condition of no condition and it's by far the hardest aspect of power structure that i have ever had to deal with.
Because it means dealing with in without question. It means dealing with it whilst feeling alone in the unspoken limits of the dynamic. It means a mirror has been held up by your dominant/master and all there is is a reflectio of what's going on within one as the submissive.
Non communication is a restraint without chains. A punishment without pain. A kiss without a touch.
For me what has surfaced



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