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RE: Not a Sub, sure as heck not a Domme - 5/5/2009 5:27:35 PM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
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The label that comes to mind is "kinky bottom into resistance play and force play".

However it's a lot to ask out of a partner day to day. He has a flat tire in the rain, long day at work, and then comes home to discover you aren't willing to get him dinner, hang up his wet clothes but expect this play instead when he simply doesn't have the energy for it.

< Message edited by DesFIP -- 5/5/2009 5:30:52 PM >

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Post #: 21

RE: Not a Sub, sure as heck not a Domme - 5/5/2009 5:36:45 PM

HeavansKeeper

Posts: 1254
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Vjklander

femPrey.

I like it.

Elisabella's post had one particularly interesting element: She loved the fight, but needed to lose. Forfeiting upfront (submission without the fight) has no appeal.

Dark Steven (and to some extent others),

I've ran alongside people like this... It took me some time to get comfortable with the idea that the fight was real to them. They don't like roleplaying it, or throwing the fight. They craved an animal world. It's a notion I am uncomfortable with. It borders rape in too many respects for me.

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Post #: 22

RE: Not a Sub, sure as heck not a Domme - 5/5/2009 5:42:10 PM

Andalusite

Posts: 2492
Joined: 1/25/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

The label that comes to mind is "kinky bottom into resistance play and force play".

However it's a lot to ask out of a partner day to day. He has a flat tire in the rain, long day at work, and then comes home to discover you aren't willing to get him dinner, hang up his wet clothes but expect this play instead when he simply doesn't have the energy for it.

I don't think that's implied at all - if he's had a bad day, she might well be perfectly willing to skip that type of play and be in more of a nurturing or submissive mood.

I know large cats tend to want to fight before they mate, I think some people have a similar inclination.

I am able to be dominant or submissive, depending on the other person, but either way, I'm inclined to takedowns, playfighting, wrestling, and such. It isn't necessary all the time, and I *do* enjoy winning (or losing - it's more about the process than the outcome). I don't do it with "no limits," though - usually I hold back to "sparring" level rather than anything that would actually hurt, much less injure, and frequently I'll only struggle without actually fighting back at all. Guys that can't handle being pinned for a few seconds until they can turn the tables, or who can't handle a gentle nip here and there seem like wimps to me, though.

< Message edited by Andalusite -- 5/5/2009 5:45:06 PM >

(in reply to DesFIP)

Post #: 23

RE: Not a Sub, sure as heck not a Domme - 5/5/2009 6:15:12 PM

CallaFirestormBW

Posts: 3651
Joined: 6/29/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella

Well it does matter to me, I talk to people online about this sort of thing, and it's easier to say I'm a ________ on the initial contact than to post a bunch of stuff about specific fantasies I have, especially if I'm just getting to know the person.

I always thought that bottom implied some sort of masochism...like it was used to describe people who were into physical sensations without power play, but I might be wrong.

Hmm I can always just say I'm into "power play" but that might require a bit more explanation.

Thanks for replying :) I do think "Bottom" would be more accurate than "Submissive" though I don't really feel either are perfect.

Take care,
Bella

You know, you described yourself perfectly in your first post -- Just tell me "Mr. and Mrs. Smith.... that's my scene!" and I'd get you right away.

Of course, I'm another one of those kind of indescribable sort of categories. *chuckles*

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(in reply to Elisabella)

Post #: 24

RE: Not a Sub, sure as heck not a Domme - 5/5/2009 6:31:49 PM

sblady

Posts: 433
Joined: 9/28/2007
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Interesting topic.

I submit to my Sir, however, as we were friends prior to entering a D/s relationship, I'm still a bit "unsure" about how much I can or am willing to submit. Our relationship is very different from those I've read about or others I've met in D/s and M/s relationships. I'm not complaining as this works well for us both.

I suppose results will vary depending on the Dom. Thankfully, I don't have to worry about that for now.

< Message edited by sblady -- 5/5/2009 6:32:35 PM >

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Post #: 25

RE: Not a Sub, sure as heck not a Domme - 5/5/2009 6:47:37 PM

MsMillgrove

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Thanks for posting.. a fascinating topic. Change of pace and a chance to hear from those who don't fit into tidy "boxes". Cheers, MsM

(in reply to sblady)

Post #: 26

RE: Not a Sub, sure as heck not a Domme - 5/5/2009 9:30:56 PM

NihilusZero

Posts: 4036
Joined: 9/10/2008
From: Nashville, TN
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Simply make up a term and use the same clarity and expressiveness you used in this thread to describe it and stick it in your profile (or wherever else you'd wish it to be seen). You might just end up starting a new terminology trend.

< Message edited by NihilusZero -- 5/5/2009 9:32:13 PM >

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Post #: 27

RE: Not a Sub, sure as heck not a Domme - 5/5/2009 9:51:34 PM

ZenDragoness

Posts: 372
Joined: 1/21/2006
From: Berlin/Germany
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Elisabella,

reading your words brought an early morning smile to my lips. Your description matched my tendencies and likes a lot. One main difference is maybe, that i love as much to prey as being preyed upon.

Like you i love to fight and resist and became breathless and fight....

You described yourself well and i would use that description.

Or you end up with my boxes: dominant/submissiv; masochistic/sadistic.

Ruth

< Message edited by ZenDragoness -- 5/5/2009 9:53:03 PM >

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Post #: 28

RE: Not a Sub, sure as heck not a Domme - 5/5/2009 9:54:11 PM

ZenDragoness

Posts: 372
Joined: 1/21/2006
From: Berlin/Germany
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Vjklander

quote:

femPrey

Great Term.

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Post #: 29

RE: Not a Sub, sure as heck not a Domme - 5/5/2009 10:03:53 PM

ZenDragoness

Posts: 372
Joined: 1/21/2006
From: Berlin/Germany
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Jeptha,

that are very well interesting thoughts about the the madness or getting to fight out of an feeling of anger.

It was the part of the op where i usally differ, or better said we differ. Because we fight very hard and have
never spoken about it, but do not mix up situations were we argue or there is another problem and bring that
into the fight.

When we fight our destination is SM and Sex. We may loose a lot of tension and agession on the way during the
fight and it is not clear at the start if we reach our destination. Because he is a dom all his life and not able to switch, we may end up simply with a good fight and hunger. Because there are days when i can not go down, will not stop to resist and from experience we know, it is better to stop then.

< Message edited by ZenDragoness -- 5/5/2009 10:06:20 PM >

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Post #: 30

RE: Not a Sub, sure as heck not a Domme - 5/6/2009 2:44:39 AM

ranja

Posts: 2111
Joined: 11/1/2007
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Oh i love a good physical fight, the point that i know i'm beat is just exquisite, it's a treat though couldn't do it every day...i'm mainly just compliant
i've heard people call themselves brats, pobably has been mentioned
How about strong sub

(in reply to Elisabella)

Post #: 31

RE: Not a Sub, sure as heck not a Domme - 5/6/2009 6:10:43 AM

breatheasone

Posts: 4004
Joined: 7/14/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ranja

Oh i love a good physical fight, the point that i know i'm beat is just exquisite, it's a treat though couldn't do it every day...i'm mainly just compliant
i've heard people call themselves brats, pobably has been mentioned
How about strong sub

Nawww, A very good idea though. It just makes it sound like a "sub" that doesn't do that is weak.... and thats not true

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Post #: 32

RE: Not a Sub, sure as heck not a Domme - 5/6/2009 7:28:14 AM

Apocalypso

Posts: 1104
Joined: 4/20/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Andalusite
I don't do it with "no limits," though - usually I hold back to "sparring" level rather than anything that would actually hurt, much less injure, and frequently I'll only struggle without actually fighting back at all.

An actual "no limits" fight would strike me as far too dangerous anyway. Considering that, in a 'serious' fight, the aim is basically to disable your opponent as quickly as possible with anything that comes to hand.

It's certainly possible to have a full-on struggle. But using street brawl tactics like jabbing at the eyes or going for the bridge of the nose is going to cause serious permanent damage sooner or later.

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(in reply to Andalusite)

Post #: 33

RE: Not a Sub, sure as heck not a Domme - 5/6/2009 7:37:44 AM

Andalusite

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I agree, there's a difference between fighting dirty and just fighting at full strength, but for most people, even striking "fair" targets at maximum power is way too much, even from a woman half their size. I mostly do wrestling around rather than strikes in my sparring/playfighting of this sort, though I've occasionally had them punch me or vice versa in "meaty" spots like butt, thighs, calves, and (more lightly) stomach. I'm nervous about doing throws/takedowns unless there is padding available, especially with a guy who's a lot bigger than I am - it's harder to control his fall to minimise the impact (and of course, depending on the move, some guys are just too tall relative to me for them to work effectively).

ranja, I don't know about Elisabella, but I don't consider myself to be a brat at all - I like playfighting, but I'm not at all disrespectful about it. It can get rather primal/animalistic, especially if they start tickling me while holding me down, though! I like getting tickled, but if they go overboard when I can't move away, I sometimes go into random flailing mode or have enough of an adrenaline rush that it's hard to keep perfect control of myself.

(in reply to Apocalypso)

Post #: 34

RE: Not a Sub, sure as heck not a Domme - 5/6/2009 7:45:00 AM

Missokyst

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Joined: 9/9/2006
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If I was going to choose a box, mine would look like yours.. more or less. I submit to a man only when it is inspired from me. But I never lose that desire to fight, to know he can win, and to finally surrender to him. Yes I can enjoy the regular "get down there and suck my cock" when my partner arrives. But basically that is only because by that point I am already his. I become his only when I know he can best me. And resistance for me is only a reminder of that.
I don't know why it reminds me of Vikings. The women used to be just as fieresome as the men. Woooooooohooooooo...
Kyst

(in reply to Elisabella)

Post #: 35

RE: Not a Sub, sure as heck not a Domme - 5/6/2009 7:49:32 AM

CreativeDominant

Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

The label that comes to mind is "kinky bottom into resistance play and force play".

However it's a lot to ask out of a partner day to day. He has a flat tire in the rain, long day at work, and then comes home to discover you aren't willing to get him dinner, hang up his wet clothes but expect this play instead when he simply doesn't have the energy for it.

I am so glad that another female submissive said this before I did...although I will admit to being pretty lucky in not getting flamed in awhile.

It may work for some...it appears to work for the OP and her partner...but it doesn't work for me. As a game occasionally...sure. Being the creative sort who likes playful partners, this is a game I could enjoy occasionally. But after a day of dealing with insurance adjusters denying my claims based on a prepared script or a day of dealing with that patient who, no matter what you do, still feels like "couldn't you do something more, Doc?", if I have to take your submission from you by forcing it from you, then I end up feeling like I have to prove my dominance. I end up feeling like I did in my vanilla marriage wherein even after 17 years together, I was expected to prove that I cared for her by bringing flowers or taking her to dinner/and or a movie to get fucked. Sorry...I don't play that anymore...you either feel submission and get what it means at its most basic level or you do not. When I enter into a D/s dynamic with someone who claims to be submissive, I expect them to do just that...submit to my dominance and submit to a dominance that is not controlled or instigated by them but by me in a manner that we chose in the opening negotiations as being best-suited to both of us and then, once agreed to, directed by me.

(in reply to DesFIP)

Post #: 36

RE: Not a Sub, sure as heck not a Domme - 5/6/2009 11:24:00 AM

Jeptha

Posts: 780
Joined: 9/18/2008
From: Portland, Oregon
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: HeavansKeeper

...I've ran alongside people like this... It took me some time to get comfortable with the idea that the fight was real to them. They don't like roleplaying it, or throwing the fight. They craved an animal world. It's a notion I am uncomfortable with. It borders rape in too many respects for me.

I've heard about it and been intrigued, because it does sound intense.

As a guy though, I do ask; what's in it for me?

Cause, as a guy, I'd feel sort of responsible for her, even as I was defending myself ... unless there is some kind of no-limits thing really going on...
But, your comments on it being like rape in that case might be very astute.
That's a hard thing for me to sort out.

On another level, I've had fights when I was younger, and it wasn't that fun.
I could see enjoying putting on the gloves and boxing.
But that has limits and boundaries, and is less spontaneous.

But some boundaries might be good. Because even if we agree that it's supposed to be in fun, if somebody is trying to kick me in the nuts, I'm not going to be happy.

And like Apocolypso says, "Considering that, in a 'serious' fight, the aim is basically to disable your opponent as quickly as possible with anything that comes to hand"...

I think my own self-defense instinct is to "grab-n-twist", or attack anything (arm, leg) that's coming at me.

Maybe part of the thing is that I don't feel strong enough to subdue someone without potentially hurting them.

I think I'm of average strength - I also think people are maybe underestimating how easy it is to get injured that way.

I've been in fights and had people yell out the stupidest things, expecting that a bottle over the head would knock somebody out like it does in the movies, like flipping a switch.

And that was the guy's girlfriend yelling for me to knock him out.

I'm not sure if people are entirely realistic about it.

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Post #: 37

RE: Not a Sub, sure as heck not a Domme - 5/6/2009 11:29:49 AM

KoolnSassy

Posts: 65
Joined: 5/5/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella

Well it does matter to me, I talk to people online about this sort of thing, and it's easier to say I'm a ________ on the initial contact than to post a bunch of stuff about specific fantasies I have, especially if I'm just getting to know the person.

I always thought that bottom implied some sort of masochism...like it was used to describe people who were into physical sensations without power play, but I might be wrong.

Hmm I can always just say I'm into "power play" but that might require a bit more explanation.

Thanks for replying :) I do think "Bottom" would be more accurate than "Submissive" though I don't really feel either are perfect.

Take care,
Bella

It is difficult to take oneself and compress it into some tiny little label. There are many many different types of submissives and Dominants. So to present yourself as submissive, imho, would always call for further explanation as to what that means to you. Some submissives find strict obedience very hot, others want their D to use force. It's all about what works for you and your partner.

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(in reply to Elisabella)

Post #: 38

RE: Not a Sub, sure as heck not a Domme - 5/6/2009 1:44:17 PM

ranja

Posts: 2111
Joined: 11/1/2007
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It was just a suggestion, op wanted a title...might be suitable for her...i don't consider myself a brat either and i don't know if people who do consider themselves brats think that they are disrepectful at all, maybe it's only attitude...
when we fight i first usually try to stay out of his reach...around the coffee table, chairs, breakfast bar and when He's got me i'll try to wrestle loose, i always lose, end up in leather cuffs panting...
someone said hellcat too

(in reply to Andalusite)

Post #: 39

RE: Not a Sub, sure as heck not a Domme - 5/6/2009 8:08:24 PM

Elisabella

Posts: 3939
Status: offline

Wow what a variety of responses :) Thank you all for replying!

Ranja - like you I don't consider myself a brat. Well, I am a brat sometimes, but I don't consider this aspect of myself to be bratty. Bratty is when I pout about wanting new shoes even though my fiance is the only one who has a job. It's unappealing and childish and something I dislike about myself and am constantly working to improve. Hellcat on the other hand I can get down with :)

Jeptha - I agree with you that it's a dangerous fetish. I've never fought back with full force, I've never fought dirty or done anything to injure my fiance. I'd feel horrible if anything happened to him, and I'd feel twice as horrible if he ended up hurting me because I was fighting too much. I like the term "sparring" to describe it - that's why I want to take martial arts with him. We'll learn how to fight without using full force.

DesFIP - Totally. I don't see things like making dinner or giving the man I love a back massage as acts of submission though, I just consider it part of being a good girlfriend and future wife. Being supportive and caring aren't part of my BDSM dynamic, they're just part of the relationship. I hope that clarifies :)

CreativeDominant - That's exactly why I hesitate to use the word submissive! Obviously I'm in a relationship and therefore not looking, but still using the word 'submissive' seems like a misrepresentation. I don't feel submission at the same "basic level" that your partner does - lots of people call me a submissive female because of the role I take in my relationship, and I'm fine with that, but I'm not "a submissive" in the kinky sense. When I submit to make my partner happy it isn't a sexual thing for me, it's an expression of love, and it's usually more along the lines of getting dressed up to bring him lunch at work instead of begging for sex or something.

Everyone who said they feel the same type of desires - you all rock! Thanks for the replies :) Kyst - I can totally see how it reminds you of Vikings. I always imagine it as sort of a scene in a fantasy movie where I'm a warrior princess who totally gets out-combatted by the warrior prince. And you all know what happens next

XO,
Bella

(in reply to ranja)

Post #: 40

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