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ORIGINAL: QuixoticErrant
Without accepting personal responsibility, we are nothing. We are defined by our choices.

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Which is more respectful? Is it saying that someone really could make a change - particularly when that is true. When there is no law of physics reason why she could not leave him (I am not talking Ukrainian brothels at the moment) or to say, "there was nothing you could do, there is nothing you can do, it is your lot in life because you are weak?"[/size][/font]

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ORIGINAL: Ialdabaoth

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ORIGINAL: QuixoticErrant
Without accepting personal responsibility, we are nothing. We are defined by our choices.

No, we are the sum of our actions and our effects on the world. You can call those "choices" if you like, but ultimately, we're a lot more than that. And "choice" and "personal responsibility" aren't the only potentially-valid moral philosophy that humanity has come up with over the past 10,000+ years; they're just one of the ones that's currently in vogue in certain occasionally psychotic sections of our society.

Look, I really understand how you are afraid that someone might take my words as "blame the vicitm." I am NOT saying that at all. I am angry that you think I would. As to us being the sum of our choices, every effect we have (if you believe in free will) was the result of our choices, consciously or unconsciously, and the descision not to act is also a choice. If you do not believe in free will, then none of these arguments matter. Sometimes the only availible choice is not to surrender internally. Sometimes even that choice is too hard to bear. It is a crime and a tragedy that people put others in that position. But do not rob the vicitm of their humanity. Do not rob them of the fact that they still can have themselves to themselves even if it is only on the inside.

I think that neither of those sound very respectful, and limiting it to those two options is a big part of the problem. Here's a third option:

"There was nothing you could do then, but now there is. Here, let me help you."

I do not understand how you could possibly think I would not phrase it like that. You are projecting an awful lot onto me that is not there.

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ORIGINAL: Fitznicely

Bravo! Nail hit squarely on head, there. Excellent piece [:D]

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ORIGINAL: brownbutterflyy

So true. Thanks for sharing.

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ORIGINAL: QuixoticErrant
Real power in BDSM is when the dominant has sufficiently *earned* the trust and respect of the submissive so that they *want* to obey. That is the art of being a Dominant.

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ORIGINAL: QuixoticErrant
Real power in BDSM is when the dominant has sufficiently *earned* the trust and respect of the submissive so that they *want* to obey. That is the art of being a Dominant.

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ORIGINAL: QuixoticErrant

Some more thoughts on kink and kink philosophy...

Power is something that is granted. It is not something that is seized. I once was in a karate class and the sensei said one of the more profound things I have ever heard.

He broke a stack of boards - it was an impressive display, but actually something very trivial for him to do. He did it with a quick, casual contempt that was also part of his lesson.

He said:

"I imagine that many of you think that is power. It takes skill, but anyone of you who can not do that already can certainly learn to. There is an element of self mastery to doing it, which is the only real reflection of power it has."

"Have you ever had a little baby wrap their tiny fingers around your finger? Ever try to get your finger back? THAT is power."

"Of course you are vastly stronger than the baby, yet, for the life of you, you can not imagine withdrawing your finger. Real power is given, never taken."

This has the most obvious and direct parallel to BDSM. The art of being a Dominant rests in making the compelling case to the submissive that surrendering to you is what they actually want to do.

For certain, surrender can be coerced. Doms who go that route may possibly succeed in the short run with inexperienced submissives, but they will fail in the long run and be despised for it.

We have all been outgunned in life at one time or another and had to do things we really would rather not, for people we really do not like. Anyone who has paid an unfair parking or traffic ticket knows this feeling. Anyone who has had a prick of a boss dump on them unfairly knows this feeling.

After paying the parking ticket, how do you feel about the meter maid, or the cop that swaggered up to you? How do you feel about the boss who dumped on your work because he can't get his act together and is blaming you?

They certainly had you checkmated. You did comply. But you likely do not respect them. If you could get away with it, you might consider belting them. You did it because you felt that you had no choice. They have no real power over you in the sense that you despise them and that the rules they enforced on you, you do not feel apply - and in the case of the boss who dumped on you unjustly, or the unfair ticket, you know that if the rules were working properly, things would have been different.

Let's compare that to real power. Real power means that you obey another because you feel that it is not just the best thing to do, but the *right* thing to do. Perhaps the cop had you dead to rights at that stop. You may grumble, but you know that you want to live in a lawful society and you comply for reasons other than fear. Perhaps the boss that reamed you out, in fact wants to see the best from you, and is giving you some tough love.

Real power in BDSM is when the dominant has sufficiently *earned* the trust and respect of the submissive so that they *want* to obey. That is the art of being a Dominant.

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ORIGINAL: Andalusite

Huh? What does protection have to do with D/s? I like guys who are into martial arts, who are strong, tough, a bit protective in general, but he could be any BDSM orientation. [:D]