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The millstone v bubble love debate.... - 4/15/2009 5:47:07 AM   
Prinsexx


Posts: 4584
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline 		There have been a number of threads here recently about love. Surprisingly a very good friend here posted about love not being neede but being discovered. Myself saying I think everyone needs love.
I'm ignoring the vanilla versus bdsm chasm... you know that approach that divides the world into bdsm and non-bdsm relationships. Since I'm here and you're here if you are reading this I am just assuming at least some basic desire for WIITWD.
My questions are to do with the nature of love in WIITWD type relationships. What started me off thinking about this is that I haven't said the L word to my Master. My reasons for not doing so? Because love is what I have for my Um's... love is what I have on an altrusistic basis for humanity as a whole... undivided and absolute love because I'm of that hippy generation and consider myself to be... or aspire to be at least, a spiritual person.
Anyway I haven't said it for many reasons: because the dynamic, although not new, (we are probably about 6 years into the' relatonship'.....) the dynamic feels so brilliant I feel as if I am in a perfect bubble. Protected, clear, light and yes perfect.. but fragile. Fragile because it is so perfect... blissful.
There have been times when I have said to partners I love you and had it reciprocated... in both vanilla and bdsm type relationships... only to find in a short while that the love became like a millstone round my neck.. a feeling that he loved me more, or I love him more and so on ....
so my questions are:
Are you in a relationship where your love is like a precious bubble?
Are you in a relationship where love has become a millstone?
Do you seek a relationship which, in the best of all possible worlds, would be a love match?
Can love be everlasting?
And if it feels precious what keeps it that way?



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RE: The millstone v bubble love debate.... - 4/15/2009 6:05:35 AM   
dreamerdreaming


Posts: 2839
Status: offline 		Love can wax and wane, and/or it can be everlasting. It can evolve into deeper love, or fade into more of a brotherly love, but still love. You can love someone deeply and yet not be "in love" with them.

Myself, I value my slave's obedience and devotion, over his love. Because love will go through its different gradiations, whether waxing and waning or ever deepening, or fading away... But I regard our owner/slave relationship as a constant. I expect him to serve me with complete obedience and loyalty, whether or not he loves me right then. Whether or not he is "in love" with me, I expect and require his obedient service.

I expect that our devotion to one another will always foster some kind of love between us. But the love is not my focus, except to the extent that it fills our needs in the context of our owner/slave relationship.

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RE: The millstone v bubble love debate.... - 4/15/2009 6:27:11 AM   
InTonguesslut


Posts: 401
Joined: 3/5/2009
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quote:

Are you in a relationship where your love is like a precious bubble?

No.
Honestly i don't know whether it is just the way you phrase it but it sounds pretty unhealthy to me. Just like when people say that when their significant other is around everything else fades away etc. It's just all too much for me. No matter who i'm with my friends, family etc are always in my radar, my love has never been in a bubble.
 
quote:

Are you in a relationship where love has become a millstone?

Yes but not with my present Sir. I am not in love with my present Sir and am 99% sure i never will be. I'm not the 'in love' kind as most here who know me know lol.
I was head over heels although i didn't recognise it at the time with an ex Sir and it was not reciprocated. It didn't matter it wasn't reciprocated but it broke my heart when we had to part (amicably) and now trying to hold down a friendship, well the love is a bit of a millstone.
 
quote:

Do you seek a relationship which, in the best of all possible worlds, would be a love match?

No i never seek or have sought love. I don't like being in love and certainly don't like people being in love with me. I don't need to be loved.
Thats not to say i haven't been in love or won't be in love again, just that it is something i don't need and don't want.
 
quote:

Can love be everlasting?

Ask me this again on my death bed lol.
My love for my friends and family will be everlasting, for a partner? Who knows !!
 
quote:

And if it feels precious what keeps it that way?

Hmm i dunno. Not taking it for granted, working on the relationship all the time. This question reminds me of darcy and the darks tag line about love being both of you looking in the same direction.









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RE: The millstone v bubble love debate.... - 4/15/2009 6:29:55 AM   
RCdc


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Prinsexx
Are you in a relationship where your love is like a precious bubble?


No.
quote:

Are you in a relationship where love has become a millstone?
 
No.

quote:

Can love be everlasting?
 
That needs to be more defined a question to answer it completely.
 
quote:

And if it feels precious what keeps it that way?

 
We do.
 
the.dark.

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RE: The millstone v bubble love debate.... - 4/15/2009 6:40:40 AM   
leadership527


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Status: offline 		Are you in a relationship where your love is like a precious bubble? - yes
Are you in a relationship where love has become a millstone? - no
Do you seek a relationship which, in the best of all possible worlds, would be a love match? - already have it, but yes.
Can love be everlasting? - sort of. not on autopilot but love clearly can "go the distance"
And if it feels precious what keeps it that way? - we do


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RE: The millstone v bubble love debate.... - 4/15/2009 6:47:14 AM   
RCdc


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quote:

ORIGINAL: InTonguesslut
Honestly i don't know whether it is just the way you phrase it but it sounds pretty unhealthy to me.


I felt that too, which is why I responded no, only a slightly different reason.  If a relationship is perfect - what then?  Where are the goals to achieve?  Perfection occurs at the end, not at the beginning or in the middle or anywhere in between.  And fragile?  Not one bit.  I would not wish to be in a relationship that was so fragile that it could be burst even by the softest feather or carried away on a current that was not of anyones choosing.
 
the.dark.

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RE: The millstone v bubble love debate.... - 4/15/2009 6:51:13 AM   
InTonguesslave


Posts: 342
Joined: 2/6/2009
Status: offline 		Are you in a relationship where your love is like a precious bubble?
 
no, its alot how dreamerdreaming has described it

Are you in a relationship where love has become a millstone?

i allowed my emotions to feck me up a bit this weekend.  i realised that my love for Sir interrupted my submission to him over something he had every right to expect me to accept.  it wasnt jealousy or envy but it was insecurity and a need for my Master that got confused with my feelings for him and ended up with me feeling arsey and upset with him.  its about remembering that my submission comes first and my emotions should not be allowed to interfere.

Do you seek a relationship which, in the best of all possible worlds, would be a love match?

not sure what a love match is prin.  for me, personally, i fall for people, thats me, its what i do and how i respond to people i really like and want in my life.  so for me a love match is a potential in everyone i come across.  its ok, its not the mess it sounds, i have a handle on it, its just how i operate.

Can love be everlasting?

yes it can, but the love changes.

And if it feels precious what keeps it that way?

effort, acceptance, sense of humour - all of that and more.  but also, i spose, not expecting too much from a person, i try not to, but it isnt always easy.  taking a person for who they are and accepting them as they are makes it possible to keep it precious whilst external stuff goes on all around.




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RE: The millstone v bubble love debate.... - 4/15/2009 6:57:41 AM   
cpK69


Posts: 1593
Joined: 5/9/2008
Status: offline 		A few years back, I might have been able to answer these questions as stated, but since I’ve come to realize what most people call love, isn’t love at all, it has become increasingly difficult.

What is describe in the OP, isn’t love; it is passion, in light of possible opportunity. Meaning, having found something to place hope in, for finding/being one's self. The reason I say this, is because love is not “fragile”, next to truth, it is the strongest thing on this planet. Passion, on the other hand, is fragile. It is that place in the mind where you think you know, and sometimes are unwilling to take a good look, for fear of being wrong.

Love, however, seeks truth. It would rather die, then to make the wrong choice for another, or, in making the best choice. When it is truly understood, it is never ending. Even if life itself, were to cease to exist, evidence of it would remain; there just wouldn’t be anyone around to appreciate it. Love isn’t about ‘liking’ it is about the ability to appreciate.

Hope that helps.

My best,

Kim

< Message edited by cpK69 -- 4/15/2009 7:07:56 AM >

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RE: The millstone v bubble love debate.... - 4/15/2009 8:20:24 AM   
cpK69


Posts: 1593
Joined: 5/9/2008
Status: offline 		My appologies, I mis-stated that.

quote:

ORIGINAL: cpK69

What is describe in the OP, isn’t love; it is hope, in light of passion. Meaning, having found something to place hope in, for finding/being one's self. The reason I say this, is because love is not “fragile”, next to truth, it is the strongest thing on this planet. Hope, on the other hand, is fragile. It is that place in the mind where you think you know, and sometimes are unwilling to take a good look, for fear of being wrong.






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RE: The millstone v bubble love debate.... - 4/15/2009 8:41:57 AM   
NihilusZero


Posts: 4036
Joined: 9/10/2008
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline 		These sort of discussions kind of irk me. "Love", by nature, is an entirely subjective entity. It "is" whatever one individual wishes it to be. There are no "greater" or "lesser" versions of it just as much as there is no "twue way" to conduct yourself in WIITWD.

I have refrained from using the term in relationships before for this very reason. It's, in essence, an empty, pretty word that, at best, is a shortcut of verbal explanation to someone once you've taken the time to describe to them exactly what the term means to you and how the person you're saying it to is applicable to it.

To fast-forward through the mini questionnaire, what "keeps something precious that way" is everything that goes on underneath every use of that superficially pretty word.


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I know they're all insane
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RE: The millstone v bubble love debate.... - 4/15/2009 8:53:36 AM   
InTonguesslut


Posts: 401
Joined: 3/5/2009
Status: offline
quote:

These sort of discussions kind of irk me. "Love", by nature, is an entirely subjective entity. It "is" whatever one individual wishes it to be. There are no "greater" or "lesser" versions of it just as much as there is no "twue way" to conduct yourself in WIITWD.

Then i assume most discussions on the cm board irk you. Most everything we discuss here is really a 'subjective entity' and 'whatever one individual wishes it to be'.
Or is it just that love gets your irk knickers in a twist more than most things?

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RE: The millstone v bubble love debate.... - 4/15/2009 9:04:36 AM   
cpK69


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Joined: 5/9/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

These sort of discussions kind of irk me. "Love", by nature, is an entirely subjective entity. It "is" whatever one individual wishes it to be. There are no "greater" or "lesser" versions of it just as much as there is no "twue way" to conduct yourself in WIITWD.


I thought love could easily be stated as, the willingness to do what is necessary, even when it is not what is desired, for the benefit of all involved.
Kim




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RE: The millstone v bubble love debate.... - 4/15/2009 9:05:57 AM   
NihilusZero


Posts: 4036
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From: Nashville, TN
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quote:

ORIGINAL: InTonguesslut

Most everything we discuss here is really a 'subjective entity' and 'whatever one individual wishes it to be'.

True. "Love", though, seems to be that one nifty exception that many people still treat as a universal constant. The discussions with some poster decrying his/her "twue way" irk me too. I get over it.




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"I know it's all a game
I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
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RE: The millstone v bubble love debate.... - 4/15/2009 9:10:41 AM   
dreamerdreaming


Posts: 2839
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quote:

ORIGINAL: cpK69

quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

These sort of discussions kind of irk me. "Love", by nature, is an entirely subjective entity. It "is" whatever one individual wishes it to be. There are no "greater" or "lesser" versions of it just as much as there is no "twue way" to conduct yourself in WIITWD.


I thought love could easily be stated as, the willingness to do what is necessary, even when it is not what is desired, for the benefit of all involved.
Kim



No, that's just practicality, or compromise.

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RE: The millstone v bubble love debate.... - 4/15/2009 9:11:31 AM   
InTonguesslut


Posts: 401
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quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

quote:

ORIGINAL: InTonguesslut

Most everything we discuss here is really a 'subjective entity' and 'whatever one individual wishes it to be'.

True. "Love", though, seems to be that one nifty exception that many people still treat as a universal constant. The discussions with some poster decrying his/her "twue way" irk me too. I get over it.





Oh i don't know, the sub vs slave debate, the limits vs no limits. all things people seem to think they have the universal answer to lol
 
This thread reminds me of a song called what is love anyway?

I love you whether or not you love me
I love you even if you think that I dont
Sometimes I find you doubt my love for you, but I dont mind
Why should I mind, why should I mind

Chorus
What is love anyway, does anybody love anybody anyway
What is love anyway, does anybody love anybody anyway

Can anybody love anyone so much that they will never fear
Never worry never be sad
The answer is they cannot love this much nobody can
This is why I dont mind you doubting

And maybe love is letting people be just what they want to be
The door always must be left unlocked
To love when circumstance may lead someone away from you
And not to spend the time just doubting

GA_googleFillSlot("lyricsfreak-300x50-btf");




 
 

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It's not shopping if you buy 10 items or less.

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RE: The millstone v bubble love debate.... - 4/15/2009 9:14:44 AM   
cpK69


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quote:

ORIGINAL: dreamerdreaming

No, that's just practicality, or compromise.


If it is practicality, why does it seem so few do it? At what point does necessary, become compromise?

Intrigued by the thought.

Kim 

< Message edited by cpK69 -- 4/15/2009 9:15:11 AM >

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RE: The millstone v bubble love debate.... - 4/15/2009 9:50:11 AM   
NihilusZero


Posts: 4036
Joined: 9/10/2008
From: Nashville, TN
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quote:

ORIGINAL: cpK69

I thought love could easily be stated as, the willingness to do what is necessary, even when it is not what is desired, for the benefit of all involved.
Kim

I don't really want to derail the thread entirely, but the first thoughts that popped into my head reading this were:
  • Who decides what the "benefit for all involved" is?
  • What's the difference between someone being pushed into doing something that is "not what is desired" that's for the "benefit for all involved" and someone being passively coerced to do it (when perhaps they shouldn't) out of misplaced ideals?


_____________________________

"I know it's all a game
I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
~Siouxsie & the Banshees

NihilusZero.com

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CM Hall Monitor

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RE: The millstone v bubble love debate.... - 4/15/2009 9:54:25 AM   
cpK69


Posts: 1593
Joined: 5/9/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

I don't really want to derail the thread entirely, but the first thoughts that popped into my head reading this were:
  • Who decides what the "benefit for all involved" is?
  • What's the difference between someone being pushed into doing something that is "not what is desired" that's for the "benefit for all involved" and someone being passively coerced to do it (when perhaps they shouldn't) out of misplaced ideals?




Not who, what; truth.

The ability to be honest with one's self.

Kim 

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Humility is where weakness and strength meet and humanity begins.

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RE: The millstone v bubble love debate.... - 4/15/2009 10:00:29 AM   
agirl


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Joined: 6/14/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Prinsexx


There have been times when I have said to partners I love you and had it reciprocated... in both vanilla and bdsm type relationships... only to find in a short while that the love became like a millstone round my neck.. a feeling that he loved me more, or I love him more and so on ....

so my questions are:
1) Are you in a relationship where your love is like a precious bubble?
2) Are you in a relationship where love has become a millstone?
3) Do you seek a relationship which, in the best of all possible worlds, would be a love match?
4) Can love be everlasting?
5) And if it feels precious what keeps it that way?




1) No. Because we don't even think of using *love* to define what we have.

2) No in the context you've used it , no.

3) That doesn't apply.

4) Who can tell?. When I'm there I'll let you know.

5) The only answer can be *the combination of him and me, and everything that that entails.*

agirl



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RE: The millstone v bubble love debate.... - 4/15/2009 10:04:25 AM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline 		Total and unashamed hijack.
I find it interesting that people are trying to discuss the concept of love with someone whose name could be interpreted as a rejectionoflove.
 
the.dark.

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love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

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