How to Understand latino-on-latino racism/nationalism ???

How to Understand latino-on-latino racism/nationalism ??? (Full Version)

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LadyExcrutia -> How to Understand latino-on-latino racism/nationalism ??? (4/11/2009 8:42:51 AM)
hi all...well, to shorten this up a bit, I have my nephews at home, my husband's nephews. They are very sweet, overly disciplined and responsible kids who act more like very trained and disciplined marine recruits or navy seamen, but they made a comment which was the tip of an iceberg I crashed into... I am still new to this city, and my nephews are here awaiting for their parents which shall join them in late august. I am their "aunt" and they love me, and obey better than soldiers, I must say, being an Army brat myself. But I invited them to a small company event with the families and they didn't even deign to play with the other latino boys and when I asked, after they were very upset with another executive, they were "very insulted that they had been called Mexicans at all" as they put it and digging a little deeper, I found out just how much they despise and consider mexicans, and other nationalities, below their own level, and only accept a few others to be in theirs. Worse, this is something I see in my husband as well, not in words or actions of discrimination, but on the way he sometimes refers condescendingly and the way he patronizes mexicans when giving a very complex explanation about his classes, and he oftenly says in Spanish, which he has taught me much about, when grading a paper or test "typical mexican" and such little love phrases I have now forbidden him to even mutter in a low voice, even if he has been always careful to not show this to anyone else, even his nephews... ¿ How do you deal with Racism like this on teens ? They are from such a strong and hardheaded culture, I doubt the normal talk and approach will suffice. ¿ Anyone has any ideas ?

popeye1250 -> RE: How to Understand latino-on-latino racism/nationalism ??? (4/11/2009 9:13:00 AM)
Lady,which "race" are you talking about, Negroid, Mongoloid or Caucasoid? "Latino" or "Latina" is not a "race", it's an "ethnic group." And us of Irish (Celtic) descent have the same dilemna. We have two "classes", "Lace Curtin Irish" and "Shanty Irish." You know how to tell the differance between the two? Lace Curtin Irish take the dishes out of the sink before they piss into it.

slaveboyforyou -> RE: How to Understand latino-on-latino racism/nationalism ??? (4/11/2009 9:24:07 AM)
I dated a girl who was half Costa Rican for two and a half years. Her mother absolutely despised Mexicans; I never understood why. Her father was Anglo, and he had been a missionary all over Latin America; it's how they met. He got along with everyone, and he had a lot of Mexican friends. She would sit there with a scowl on her face when he had them over. It was unbelievable. I never saw someone hate an entire nationality like that before.

lronitulstahp -> RE: How to Understand latino-on-latino racism/nationalism ??? (4/11/2009 10:14:37 AM)
As far as feeling superior, and the hatred of Mexicans...that's messed up. When i was growing up, we had issues because of the light-skinned/dark-skinned Puerto Rican crap. What seemed to work best, was open honest communication. Talk with your family about this. See where they get these ideas from. Don't be surprised if Abuela & Abuelo "so and so" are the culprits. Bigotry is usually passed on from generation to generation, and deeply rooted. It's a sad inhertance.[image]http://www.collarchat.com/micons/m23.gif[/image] Now, for the other issue....i can understand how exasperating it might be to be referred to as "Mexican", when you aren't. i hate it when people assume all Latinos are Mexicans. It would be like calling all white people "English"...[8\|]

Lordandmaster -> RE: How to Understand latino-on-latino racism/nationalism ??? (4/11/2009 10:25:32 AM)
Yes, it's important to remember that whites don't have a monopoly on bigotry and chauvinism. I've noticed all kinds of outrageous generalizing about various Latino groups by Latinos themselves. Mexicans are this, Puerto Ricans are that, Venezuelans are another thing, and God Almighty don't even talk to Dominicans or they'll steal your watch. It's ridiculous, and I'll never understand it. quote: ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou I dated a girl who was half Costa Rican for two and a half years. Her mother absolutely despised Mexicans; I never understood why. Her father was Anglo, and he had been a missionary all over Latin America; it's how they met. He got along with everyone, and he had a lot of Mexican friends. She would sit there with a scowl on her face when he had them over. It was unbelievable. I never saw someone hate an entire nationality like that before.

TheHeretic -> RE: How to Understand latino-on-latino racism/nationalism ??? (4/11/2009 10:41:20 AM)
I think a big part of it is a perception of social class and caste. Something I've seen, just among those of Mexican heritage, is the distinction of Spanish ancestry vs. indiginous roots. It does tend to blow a hole in the 'only white people/those in power can be racist' argument.

popeye1250 -> RE: How to Understand latino-on-latino racism/nationalism ??? (4/11/2009 1:06:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lronitulstahp As far as feeling superior, and the hatred of Mexicans...that's messed up. When i was growing up, we had issues because of the light-skinned/dark-skinned Puerto Rican crap. What seemed to work best, was open honest communication. Talk with your family about this. See where they get these ideas from. Don't be surprised if Abuela & Abuelo "so and so" are the culprits. Bigotry is usually passed on from generation to generation, and deeply rooted. It's a sad inhertance.[image]http://www.collarchat.com/micons/m23.gif[/image] Now, for the other issue....i can understand how exasperating it might be to be referred to as "Mexican", when you aren't. i hate it when people assume all Latinos are Mexicans. It would be like calling all white people "English"...[8\|] Iron, oh yeah, you don't want to go to the Charlestown or South Boston sections of Boston and start calling people "English" or "Anglo!" BIG mistake!!!

FullfigRIMAAM1 -> RE: How to Understand latino-on-latino racism/nationalism ??? (4/11/2009 1:25:41 PM)
Internalized self hatred stemming from any number of things.... A fairly new concept that makes a lot of sense to me= Lateral violence. I see it among Blacks all of the time, and it breaks my heart. M

MrRodgers -> RE: How to Understand latino-on-latino racism/nationalism ??? (4/11/2009 3:19:21 PM)
A friend exhibited the same kind of disdain for Mexicans. There is a particular form of pool game where all of the balls are first spotted on the diamonds (against the rail) in a particular order. The balls are played in rotation. I asked what do you call this game ? It isn't rotation in the historical sense (first to 61) but there is addition of the values till the end...highest score wins. There is no break, this is how every game starts. He said it was called pool. I told him I needed more than that. The problem came up when I told him another player told me it was called 'Mexican' rotation. He went off...raised his voice and asked what the hell I meant...it could be Honduran rotation as far as he was concerned. And showed an aversion to playing or commiserating with any other Latinos playing.

aravain -> RE: How to Understand latino-on-latino racism/nationalism ??? (4/11/2009 3:52:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lronitulstahp As far as feeling superior, and the hatred of Mexicans...that's messed up. When i was growing up, we had issues because of the light-skinned/dark-skinned Puerto Rican crap. I've actually seen this in the local black community (light-skinned vs dark-skinned type of somethingism). I asked my one friend about it and she thought... and couldn't really explain it, or why she thought being dark-skinned was better, she just did (and she is light-skinned, and only 'half-black') EDIT: Fixed the quote >.>

Emperor1956 -> RE: How to Understand latino-on-latino racism/nationalism ??? (4/11/2009 4:18:55 PM)
EVERY social/religious/racial group has those within their ostensible group they look down on. Black on black racism is surely nothing new (ask any Black person over 30 about "good hair"), nor is Hispanic on Hispanic. East Indians have a caste system that makes our "racism" look like kindergarten. The Japanese hate the Koreans, and vice-versa, even though genetically both nationalities are pretty much identical. Ever ask a German Jew about Lithuanian, Polish or Russian Jews? Ever ask a Muscovite about a Georgian? TheHeretic touches on some of the issues as it affects Hispanics -- a belief that more "Spanish" blood makes one purer, and Black and Indian (Native American) blood dilutes. Of course this gets tricked up and turned around -- A very good friend of mine's son was upset a few years ago (when the boy was 13) that because his skin was more cafe au lait than "black" and his father was a successful businessman and -- horrors -- never was in a gang or did time in prison, he wasn't as "street" as some of his homeys. Fortunately, he grew up and learned what really makes someone credible about their culture. He's actually now a successful music producer. Everyone has gotta hate someone, babe. E

LookieNoNookie -> RE: How to Understand latino-on-latino racism/nationalism ??? (4/11/2009 4:41:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyExcrutia hi all...well, to shorten this up a bit, I have my nephews at home, my husband's nephews. They are very sweet, overly disciplined and responsible kids who act more like very trained and disciplined marine recruits or navy seamen, but they made a comment which was the tip of an iceberg I crashed into... I am still new to this city, and my nephews are here awaiting for their parents which shall join them in late august. I am their "aunt" and they love me, and obey better than soldiers, I must say, being an Army brat myself. But I invited them to a small company event with the families and they didn't even deign to play with the other latino boys and when I asked, after they were very upset with another executive, they were "very insulted that they had been called Mexicans at all" as they put it and digging a little deeper, I found out just how much they despise and consider mexicans, and other nationalities, below their own level, and only accept a few others to be in theirs. Worse, this is something I see in my husband as well, not in words or actions of discrimination, but on the way he sometimes refers condescendingly and the way he patronizes mexicans when giving a very complex explanation about his classes, and he oftenly says in Spanish, which he has taught me much about, when grading a paper or test "typical mexican" and such little love phrases I have now forbidden him to even mutter in a low voice, even if he has been always careful to not show this to anyone else, even his nephews... ¿ How do you deal with Racism like this on teens ? They are from such a strong and hardheaded culture, I doubt the normal talk and approach will suffice. ¿ Anyone has any ideas ? Uh huh. You said they're "nephews".....that makes them boys. You said they're teens....that makes them susceptible. Simple solution; Hire Salma Hayek to come to their next party. *(That oughta do it).*

4u2spoil -> RE: How to Understand latino-on-latino racism/nationalism ??? (4/11/2009 5:26:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: aravain I've actually seen this in the local black community (light-skinned vs dark-skinned type of somethingism). I asked my one friend about it and she thought... and couldn't really explain it, or why she thought being dark-skinned was better, she just did (and she is light-skinned, and only 'half-black') EDIT: Fixed the quote >.> I'll never forget taking the school bus home one day when my grandmother came out to meet me. The next day some boy made fun of her saying she looked like a runaway slave because she was so dark. This was a boy who was literally African American in that his dad was a black man from Nigeria and his mom was a black woman from the US. I had enough shades of people in my family to not see one as being better than the other, but my grandmother was absolutely gorgeous and it pissed me off that anyone could be so stupid to insult her based on skin color. There's rarely a logical reason for racism in any group.

Lordandmaster -> RE: How to Understand latino-on-latino racism/nationalism ??? (4/11/2009 6:40:47 PM)
There is that (upper-class Latinos looking down on "indigenos"), but also I'm sure that education has something to do with it. Let's not forget that education in Latin America tends to be pretty lousy. For the most part, going to college there is a matter of class, not education or academic achievement. And say what you will, one of the benefits of education is that it breaks down bigotry. quote: ORIGINAL: TheHeretic I think a big part of it is a perception of social class and caste. Something I've seen, just among those of Mexican heritage, is the distinction of Spanish ancestry vs. indiginous roots. It does tend to blow a hole in the 'only white people/those in power can be racist' argument.

kittinSol -> RE: How to Understand latino-on-latino racism/nationalism ??? (4/11/2009 6:45:13 PM)
And hopefully, education will prevent people from uttering crap like "Negroid, Mongoloid or Caucasoid" [8\|] .

popeye1250 -> RE: How to Understand latino-on-latino racism/nationalism ??? (4/11/2009 8:43:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kittinSol And hopefully, education will prevent people from uttering crap like "Negroid, Mongoloid or Caucasoid" [8\|] . Well golly gee Kittin, a Science Teacher taught us that in junior high school. But, I think he "only" went to Boston College or Boston University.

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