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RE: Thought provoking conversation as an introduction - 4/10/2009 2:10:34 AM

colouredin

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FR

I dont like the value judgements applied to either, both are valid relationship formations. I often think that the reason people use the term TFTB is to insult a submissive that they dont have a satisfactory relationship with, just like 'true' and all that rubbish.

The way I see the term BFTT is when a person from a dominant role asks for the submissive to 'top' them. It doesnt make the submissive the dominant but that they are engaging in activites most often connected with a bottom.

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RE: Thought provoking conversation as an introduction - 4/10/2009 3:32:24 AM

peppermint

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Why are you assuming that only submissives can Top from the bottom? A Dominant can do that too.

(in reply to SirSvafnir)

Post #: 22

RE: Thought provoking conversation as an introduction - 4/10/2009 8:30:23 AM

antipode

Posts: 1787
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quote:

The problem with this behavior is that it reduces the emotional link between the Dominant and the submissive because it erodes the roles and responsibilities of each partner in the D/s relationship.

You make a lot of assumptions. The basic premise always needs to be that people do what they like to do, what works for me may not work for you. I'd add that an emotional link, in my perception, is based on the relationship between two people, not on any particular kind of behaviour. All behaviours have value in a relationship, even if they are not as expected.

(in reply to SirSvafnir)

Post #: 23

RE: Thought provoking conversation as an introduction - 4/10/2009 12:17:14 PM

dreamerdreaming

Posts: 2839
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OP, are you ever going to return to your "thought provoking conversation"?

What was it about the article that you found "very enlightening"?

Personally, the article annoyed me because the author seems to be saying that trying to anticipate and respond to your submissive's needs is bottoming from the top, and defeats the purpose.

That's bullshit.

If I did such as thing, I would call it "me doing exactly what I want to do". If I want to cater to my slave's needs or desires at any given time, I will. How I do it is my choice. I am the controller of my own actions.

I'm with catize. The purpose of my ownership of my slave is our self-realization. Mutual pleasure is a big part of it, for us.

And like catize, I also am wondering why one would just guess what would make the sub feel better and then do that, rather than asking her what she thinks will help.

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Post #: 24

RE: Thought provoking conversation as an introduction - 4/10/2009 1:19:03 PM

NorthernGent

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SirSvafnir

Before you read further, let the question play in your mind for a while and try to define for yourself what that would be, then compare it (or debate it) with My opinion and let U/us all learn from each other.

I couldn't possibly enter a debate with a man prone to employing the use of capital letters to enhance his self-worth.

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Post #: 25

RE: Thought provoking conversation as an introduction - 4/10/2009 1:32:50 PM

subtlebutterfly

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

I couldn't possibly enter a debate with a man prone to employing the use of capital letters to enhance his self-worth.

wow I think I just became straight!

(in reply to NorthernGent)

Post #: 26

RE: Thought provoking conversation as an introduction - 4/10/2009 4:21:27 PM

chamberqueen

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From: Kalamazoo, MI
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I thought N4 made some very good points. I'd like to add something.

There is an instance of bottoming from the top that I found very pleasant. I was once simply given the command, "Please me". I was allowed to do whatever I wanted in order to please him, and got the chance to be totally creative. He said that he would not give any orders, just simply allow me to do my best for him. It was a very exciting session for both of us. He got to relax and not call all of the shots, and I had a great time while coming up with ideas on how to please him. This example shows that it doesn't necessary have anything at all to do with being irresponsible. If every session was like that I'm sure I would tire of it quickly but as a change of pace it was very enjoyable.

If a sub is topping from the bottom then basically it is being allowed. Each dynamic will have their own definition. In one relationship if a sub said, "Please, Sir, may I have a kiss?" it would be considered that she was trying to take the reins while in another she would be praised for sharing what she wanted. Acting out or being bratty is perfectly acceptable in some relationships while not tolerated at all in others.

There is a wide range of domination techniques, from micromanaging to very little input. As long as each partner involved is getting what they need out of it, why judge?

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RE: Thought provoking conversation as an introduction - 4/13/2009 3:19:38 PM

humiliatedslut

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You seem to think power is a very simple issue going in one direction only. But it is not. Behind roles and scenes there are usually subtle ambiguity and contradictions that makes them difficult to aprehend. That's what so fascinating, to me at least.

PD: Excuse me please for my defectous English.

< Message edited by humiliatedslut -- 4/13/2009 3:20:32 PM >

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Post #: 28

RE: Thought provoking conversation as an introduction - 4/15/2009 12:35:12 PM

N4SDChastity

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Something ELSE to think about:
Does your sub (or, YOU, as sub) have a safeword? Doesn't THAT give YOU (or, the sub) CONTROL?!?!? And, if you ARE in control, WHO is the DOm(me) and who is teh sub?!?!?

(CAPS used purely to enhance MY self worth)

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Post #: 29

RE: Thought provoking conversation as an introduction - 4/15/2009 1:26:51 PM

xxblushesxx

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Subs/slaves have power in relationships as do Doms (and those who chose to identify as such)
To pretend the power is always all one-sided is disingenuous imo.

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Post #: 30

RE: Thought provoking conversation as an introduction - 4/15/2009 3:43:40 PM

N4SDChastity

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Hey, Blushes, in deference to your signature... How do you catch a unique rabbit?!?!?!

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Post #: 31

RE: Thought provoking conversation as an introduction - 4/15/2009 4:02:47 PM

xxblushesxx

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From: Kentucky
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erm...unique up on it?

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Post #: 32

RE: Thought provoking conversation as an introduction - 4/15/2009 5:44:08 PM

Andalusite

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I prefer the "bottoming from the top" = getting thwacked the way you tell them to and "topping from the bottom" = thwacking someone the way they tell you to definitions used in "Screw The Roses, Send Me The Thorns." Manipulative, passive-agressive behaviour doesn't need a BDSM-specific label.

As to safewords, they are usually useful for situations where the top or dominant isn't able to read body language (ie. circulation is starting to get cut off in hands, etc.). My last boyfriend/Dom specifically liked having me tap out over and over again in the same session. They are just another communication tool, not so much a tool of power, in my opinion. In my first couple of BDSM-oriented relationships, I hadn't even heard of safewords, and didn't have a formal discussion of limits - we communicated verbally if one of us had a problem with what the other person was doing, paid attention to body language, etc. When trying something new, we started out slowly/gently, and worked up from there. Limits and safewords are useful tools, but if someone is determined to harm you, and isn't concerned with consent, having a safeword isn't likely to stop them if you're in private. So, it's wise to be careful who you get involved with. Also, usually when I've been most in need of saying a safeword (something actually hurt too much, like an accidental strike on bone), I couldn't speak or even breathe for a few seconds. Since I'm aware that is my reaction, I tell the people I play with that if I freeze, tense up, and go silent, to back off to gentle taps or stop for a few seconds while I process it, ahead of time. That way, if it happens, they know what is going on.

Why on earth does capitalising "WHO" and "ELSE" improve your self-esteem?

< Message edited by Andalusite -- 4/15/2009 5:45:55 PM >

(in reply to xxblushesxx)

Post #: 33

RE: Thought provoking conversation as an introduction - 4/15/2009 8:42:14 PM

N4SDChastity

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Joined: 2/27/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: xxblushesxx

erm...unique up on it?

Right... Right... Now, how do you catch a "Tame"rabbit?

(in reply to xxblushesxx)

Post #: 34

RE: Thought provoking conversation as an introduction - 4/15/2009 10:16:39 PM

xxblushesxx

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unique up on it!!

(e.g. "tame way")

*snort*

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Post #: 35

RE: Thought provoking conversation as an introduction - 4/16/2009 11:54:22 AM

leadership527

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Heh... bottoming from the top... interesting concept.

OK, I'm going to have to bite on this one. Let's see. I don't really acknowledge the concept of "topping from the bottom", but insofar as I understand it, my wife does it to me all the time and I'm unconcerned by it. I guess I'd say the same thing about "bottoming from the top". Yup, I probably do it all the time and I'm quite pleased about it.

When you get down to it, we are both happy in our respective roles. There is no competition between us -- no struggle for power. She doesn't want my role and I don't want hers. So that leaves us in a situation where, at it's core, I am always in charge. But at the more surface levels, it's kind of hit and miss who's calling the shots in any moment. I call the shots when I want to. That's good enough for me. She doesn't have to call the shots when she doesn't want to and that works for her. I'll let other people debate hypothetical role definitions and what damage may or may not be caused to these theoretical constructs.

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Post #: 36

RE: Thought provoking conversation as an introduction - 4/16/2009 12:31:18 PM

MistressRouge

Posts: 876
Joined: 3/18/2005
From: Birmingham West Midlands UK
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TFTB & BFTT !!

All it boils down to is complimentary exchange of energy, a 50/50 balanced power exhange.

There is no complete right or wrong way about it, it is down to personality, chemistry and mental and physical bond/connection.

I have asked my slave "now joanne how many strokes of the cane, would you like today?", as a rare treat.

I dont consider that bottoming from the Top, however some may do, but I quite like offering choices, to mine, makes a change, and also contributes to a great mindf***

I have fun varying the different levels of my Dominance over my subs, and slave's, I would rather play the way I enjoy, not follow textbook hearsay, how other's believe it should be

< Message edited by MistressRouge -- 4/16/2009 12:33:00 PM >

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RE: Thought provoking conversation as an introduction - 4/16/2009 2:19:37 PM

N4SDChastity

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quote:

ORIGINAL: xxblushesxx

unique up on it!!

(e.g. "tame way")

*snort*

Oh, you're gooooood!

(in reply to xxblushesxx)

Post #: 38

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