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Pain to pleasure - 4/7/2009 6:07:23 AM

InTonguesslut

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In my present relationship as the more experienced slave i am kind of expected by Sir to be a bit of an educater for my sister slub (her term, cross between sub and slave and damn i hate buzz words / definitions but i'm liking this one ). Anyway i'm finding as i should have known all along, that i don't have all the answers, and the answers that i do have relate to me 9 times out of 10 and may not relate to my sis at all.

A recent discussion about processing / translating pain into pleasure had me coming up a complete blank and basically saying 'you picked a sadist so at worse you're going to have to suck it up and tolerate it'.

You see from my experience most forms of pain i love and can get personal pleasure from, a bonus along side the pleasure from knowing Sir is getting pleasure. Then there are things like the cane and paddle which at the time of recieving i absolutely abhor. I still have the pleasure though from knowing that Sir is getting pleasure. I also take personal pleasure from the fact i am going to have bruises, marks, uncomfy seating for a few days etc.
Then there are the things like bare hand spanking which i struggle to tolerate but get pleasure from knowing Sir is enjoying and nothing more.

So all in all no matter what it is i can get some personal pleasure from all forms of pain. It was never something i had to work at, it came naturally. So this brings me to the statement i made to my sister slub, i have no idea how you work at, work towards, whatever you want to call it getting pleasure from pain when you are not a masochist and it doesn't come naturally to translate dislikable pain to some form of pleasure.

I'm now curious to know how its done if it can be ?

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Aka missturbation

It's not shopping if you buy 10 items or less.

If it fits in a toaster, i can cook it.

What you don't see with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. Prov

Post #: 1

RE: Pain to pleasure - 4/7/2009 7:12:14 AM

catize

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Even as a masochist, there are times the pain is tough to take. It usually happens when a new implement is used; the unfamiliar ‘feel’ of it affects me because it throws off my concentration.
Several things I have learned to do. Instead of tensing against the pain, I focus on accepting it. I try to not to anticipate what is coming, or when or where. Instead, I turn my thoughts inward. The only way I know how to describe it is that I absorb the pain, take it in to myself, rather than fight against it. I breathe deeply and slowly. My tears fall, my screams discharge excess energy, and I <just am>.
Another way we worked on it together was that once I had reached the point I didn’t think I could take anymore, R. would ask me if I would take 5, sometimes 10, more strokes. I could say yes because it was a finite number. Over time this increased my tolerance and endurance, as well as my pleasure (and his, of course!)

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Post #: 2

RE: Pain to pleasure - 4/7/2009 7:24:09 AM

RumpusParable

Posts: 1923
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From: NYC now!
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It may not be possible for her, but in case it is:

What ^ said, also starting light and picking "mood lighting" (I prefer music that gives me that natural high, in itself, to spark off the chemicals first -and remember, this could be a weird mix for her that seems non-bdsm-y; Depeche Mode does well for me as a bottom, whereas Britney Spears does well for me as a top... go figure).

Let her understand that enjoying pain doesn't really mean enjoying pain, or doesn't have to. Many just want the release it gives to cry or yell, some take it as a punishment for external or internal wrongs they feel, whatever cathartic need they have. Even if it's aiming just for the high, remind her that it is about *processing* for most/many. That swat is gonna Hurt -but relax and wait and let those natural drugs wash over her next.

Being in tune ith her own mind and body is a big deal if she's trying to learn how to enjoy sadism sessions with your top. She needs to learn that good vs. bad pain line for her.

Hell, send her for a few massages, then a deep tissue one. She'll learn endorphine response to pain slowly that way.

Mention, maybe, that nice painful ache one gets the day after working out... it's not pleasant but the body is healing so it's not horrid, either, that's a clue (unless one has really hurt themselves).

She ay not ever be able to process it pleasurably, but starting slow and getting a feel for when she gets her personal "runner's high" is about the best that can be done I think...

< Message edited by RumpusParable -- 4/7/2009 7:25:03 AM >

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Post #: 3

RE: Pain to pleasure - 4/7/2009 7:44:18 AM

CreativeDominant

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Rumpus made note of an important point...she may NEVER get to the point where pain translates to pleasure for her. When I was in the 82nd, we ran 4-6 mi every morning. I ran at the same level as everyone else, I'm quite sure I had the same endorphins pumping through me as everyone else (though we all probably had differing levels) BUT I never got to where I enjoyed it. I rarely got to the "runner's high" and even when I did, I didn't enjoy it. What I did learn to enjoy was my ability to accomplish the run each morning, the comraderie of the group I was running with (one of the things the run was designed to do...build comraderie), and the way it started off the day with a form of waking up that allowed my mind to focus. For your "slub", if she is not masochistic, she may never be masochistic BUT if she wishes to be a slave who accepts whatever her Master has for her, then pleasing him is what is necessary and being able to achieve the mindset of accomplishment may help her to deal with the pain she accepts for the "greater good" of the dynamic and for his pleasure.

Personally, I am of a different mindset. If I was dealing with two submissives on their way to being slaves and one got pleasure from beating and one did not, I'd use one for the beatings and the other for something else. Best use of each person's unique abilities.

(in reply to RumpusParable)

Post #: 4

RE: Pain to pleasure - 4/7/2009 7:54:20 AM

InTonguesslut

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quote:

Personally, I am of a different mindset. If I was dealing with two submissives on their way to being slaves and one got pleasure from beating and one did not, I'd use one for the beatings and the other for something else. Best use of each person's unique abilities.

He already does that. He gets different things from both of us. Watching me love the pain and beg for more, watching her struggle through it and take it.

_____________________________

Aka missturbation

It's not shopping if you buy 10 items or less.

If it fits in a toaster, i can cook it.

What you don't see with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. Prov

(in reply to RumpusParable)

Post #: 5

RE: Pain to pleasure - 4/7/2009 7:56:06 AM

InTonguesslut

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Joined: 3/5/2009
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quote:

Let her understand that enjoying pain doesn't really mean enjoying pain, or doesn't have to.

A really good point i think. There is no necessity to enjoy the pain after all.

_____________________________

Aka missturbation

It's not shopping if you buy 10 items or less.

If it fits in a toaster, i can cook it.

What you don't see with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. Prov

(in reply to RumpusParable)

Post #: 6

RE: Pain to pleasure - 4/7/2009 7:57:22 AM

chamberqueen

Posts: 1597
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From: Kalamazoo, MI
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Sometimes it is in the way that it was done. When I was first introduced to pain play I would get a few swats, then the area would be gently rubbed, then a few more, etc. I found that I started craving the soothing rub so much that I was actually sticking my butt out for more swats. I even started dreaming of the next experience instead of fearing it (and I don't consider myself a masochist).

Even if she gets no enjoyment from the pain itself, you are right in directing her that she is being pleasing to her Master. Tears do not shame me - there is nothing wrong with crying if it hurts. The only thing that would shame me is if I didn't bear up well because I trust that he will never push me farther than I am capable of. That helped my mindset greatly and might help hers. (I even found that I would lovingly touch the bruises in the days after, remembering that I had performed well for my Master.)

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Post #: 7

RE: Pain to pleasure - 4/7/2009 12:39:46 PM

heartbound

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Someone who does not like pain is probably not going to like it all of a sudden. Instead of trying to find a way to make her enjoy the pain, you can at least give your sister slub (I really do like that term

) a reason to tolerate the pain. The reason could be emotional release, pleasing him, getting to a trance like state or getting a reward of some sort (which may work best if someone really does not enjoy pain).

The issue of pain in play is certainly different for each person. I tend to like pain and I like my limits being pushed hard. I enjoy the trance like state I can achieve through play and pain. I can even endure high levels of pain even to where I am crying because of the emotional release I get. Figuring out your sister slub's underlying motivation may give you a way to help her process and tolerate the pain.

I am assuming you are talking about the pain during play as opposed to the pain of punishment. I don't think anyone is supposed to enjoy punishment. However, it may be helpful to have your sister slub experience a highly unpleasurable (or even intolerable) pain for punishment. This may make regular play seem much more tolerable when she knows your Dom is not taking her to the extreme of where he could go.

-heartbound

< Message edited by heartbound -- 4/7/2009 12:41:28 PM >

(in reply to InTonguesslut)

Post #: 8

RE: Pain to pleasure - 4/8/2009 5:55:01 AM

eyesopened

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I'm not sure it's possible to turn someone into a masochist if they aren't wired that way. The problem is, it seems most people think everyone on the planet has the exact same neurotransmitters in the exact same mix at the exact same stimuli so that it's endorphin this and endorphin that and where the hell do all the other neurotransmitters come into it or out of it for that matter?

It is very apparant to me that my body does not produce endorphin as a response to pain. I have never even cried from receiving pain of any sort. I mean never, not even as a child. So please don't talk about the same endorphins as everybody else. I feel like a freak of nature.

My Master is a sadist. As such He gets a huge amount of pleasure from my suffering. While I never enjoy the pain and the pain never gets processed into any pleasure, the service itself coupled with the nearly giddy pleasure HE receives is the reward and pleasure I get out of it. He told me that He hates playing with masochists or those who float off into subspace because He feels they are no longer connected to Him and their focus is shifted away from Him and onto themselves. I suppose that has been His experience and obviously not every masochist fits His experiences. It is most helpful to me, however, that He not only accepts my freak of nature self but actually adores me in part for it.

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(in reply to InTonguesslut)

Post #: 9

RE: Pain to pleasure - 4/8/2009 7:47:59 AM

allthatjaz

Posts: 2878
Joined: 8/20/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: eyesopened

I'm not sure it's possible to turn someone into a masochist if they aren't wired that way. The problem is, it seems most people think everyone on the planet has the exact same neurotransmitters in the exact same mix at the exact same stimuli so that it's endorphin this and endorphin that and where the hell do all the other neurotransmitters come into it or out of it for that matter?

It is very apparant to me that my body does not produce endorphin as a response to pain. I have never even cried from receiving pain of any sort. I mean never, not even as a child. So please don't talk about the same endorphins as everybody else. I feel like a freak of nature.

My Master is a sadist. As such He gets a huge amount of pleasure from my suffering. While I never enjoy the pain and the pain never gets processed into any pleasure, the service itself coupled with the nearly giddy pleasure HE receives is the reward and pleasure I get out of it. He told me that He hates playing with masochists or those who float off into subspace because He feels they are no longer connected to Him and their focus is shifted away from Him and onto themselves. I suppose that has been His experience and obviously not every masochist fits His experiences. It is most helpful to me, however, that He not only accepts my freak of nature self but actually adores me in part for it.

This is very cleverly written and not something I have read before but its something I can very much relate to.
I am a masochist of sorts. I can happily take particular implements for lengthy periods of time but what I have noticed is my partner tends to vier away from those particular things and use implements, including his hand on me knowing I won't get that masochist rush and knowing I am really going to struggle. Yep he's a sadist too

The times I am gripping onto his legs and looking up at him with a makeup streaked face and begging him to have mercy on me is the time I notice that extra little glint in his eyes!

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Post #: 10

RE: Pain to pleasure - 4/8/2009 9:02:35 AM

InTonguesslave

Posts: 342
Joined: 2/6/2009
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thanks sis, youre special

..xx

there was some advice on a thread a while ago i have tried to impliment. didnt really work.

He already does that. He gets different things from both of us. Watching me love the pain and beg for more, watching her struggle through it and take it. ... i like this ))

i can take it knowing that this ^ is the case

and i will take it because i get the head space afterwards, that settled, peaceful, connected feeling that makes everything right in the world and because he expects me to.

i actually do need the pain i just dont like it which has to make me some kind of fucked up masochist really. i can understand people enjoying it and wanting it, but not enjoying it and needing it -

-whats that about!

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Post #: 11

RE: Pain to pleasure - 4/8/2009 10:46:33 AM

MasterDarkSadist

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I think that the problem your sister sub is having is that she is resisting it. I have found that when playing, if the girl resists the sensation, and forces herself to process it, versus letting go and letting it flow through her.....she will have a difficult time. Also, while some here (and I can agree with them to a point) have stated that sub-space is not what their Master desires, it can be used to give her that drive to get through the pain so that she can get to the headspace......which will teach her to love the pain.

(in reply to InTonguesslave)

Post #: 12

RE: Pain to pleasure - 4/8/2009 11:32:17 AM

InTonguesslave

Posts: 342
Joined: 2/6/2009
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ive read before, i think it was eyesopened, who is in a similar relationship to me, in that she isnt a masso but her M is a sadist, that she has never hit subspace and doesnt believe she can. believe me ive tried - id actually really like to be able to just go with it and float off and i know that Sir wouldnt have a problem with that during play atall. i just cant. the pain keeps me totally in the here and now. i dont think its about just flipping into subspace - maybe my endorphins are filing their nails or something, cos theyre nowhere thats of any use to me!

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aka lally

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Post #: 13

RE: Pain to pleasure - 4/8/2009 1:10:33 PM

PhlossophurDomme

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One way to train a slub into embracing pain is to incorporate sexual arousal. Applying a hand free device to the genitalia and then applying strong sensations to the secondary sexually innervated areas will teach her mind and body to associate pain with pleasure. Ramping up the sensation slowly to build upon the body chemistry of stimulation will bring her into it slowly enough as to minimize resistance.

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Post #: 14

RE: Pain to pleasure - 4/8/2009 4:23:24 PM

Greyslade

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Joined: 4/3/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

Rumpus made note of an important point...she may NEVER get to the point where pain translates to pleasure for her. When I was in the 82nd, we ran 4-6 mi every morning. I ran at the same level as everyone else, I'm quite sure I had the same endorphins pumping through me as everyone else (though we all probably had differing levels) BUT I never got to where I enjoyed it. I rarely got to the "runner's high" and even when I did, I didn't enjoy it. What I did learn to enjoy was my ability to accomplish the run each morning, the comraderie of the group I was running with (one of the things the run was designed to do...build comraderie), and the way it started off the day with a form of waking up that allowed my mind to focus. For your "slub", if she is not masochistic, she may never be masochistic BUT if she wishes to be a slave who accepts whatever her Master has for her, then pleasing him is what is necessary and being able to achieve the mindset of accomplishment may help her to deal with the pain she accepts for the "greater good" of the dynamic and for his pleasure.

Personally, I am of a different mindset. If I was dealing with two submissives on their way to being slaves and one got pleasure from beating and one did not, I'd use one for the beatings and the other for something else. Best use of each person's unique abilities.

This is bang on. Don't know whether you're at point of knowing this or not in her case, but not everybody is a masochist or can be trained into being one. Could be better figuring out what chemistry does work between the two of them instead of trying to force that dynamic to a certain point.

In my early switch days, I never reacted to pain. Years of training myself to ignore it and push through with something else has left me with a dispassionate reaction to pain. Instead of making me sad and hurt or aroused or some combination of both, it simply winds me down to clear my mind to do other things.

From a dom's perspective, this is generally seen as boring.

(in reply to CreativeDominant)

Post #: 15

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