RE: Feel good laws

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MmeGigs -> RE: Feel good laws (4/6/2009 5:48:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf One I hate during allergy season is the one where Claritin-D is kept at the pharmacy, you have to show a valid ID, fill out an information card, and then have your name entered into the computer. This was supposed to curb meth production, but just like any good chemist, they just found alternatives to use. Most of the ephedrine type products that the meth labs used were being ordered on-line, wholesale, out the back door, etc. anyway. I couldn't disagree with you more about this being a "feel good" law. We've sure noticed the positive effects of these laws around here. Feds score against homegrown meth "Two years ago, Minnesota began restricting sales of cold medicines. The year before, police seized 212 meth labs in the state. In 2006, the number of seized labs plunged to 59 — a 72% reduction. Meth-related emergency room visits in Minnesota fell by two-thirds to 480," I don't know that the laws have done much to decrease the amount of meth out there, but shutting down the home-cookers was about a lot more than that. Those home labs are dangerous - literally bombs just waiting to explode. The places where this stuff has been cooked are coated floor-to-ceiling with seriously toxic crap - they need hazmat teams to come clean them up. These laws have saved loads of tax $ and a not inconsiderable number of lives. quote: So what are some more feel good laws, and your thoughts on them? I believe it waste the time of a legislators, and just done to make the less knowledgeable feel good, as if something is really being done. The various anti-gay marriage laws and amendments are kind of the ultimate in feel-good legislative time-wasters. They're pretty much trying to hold back the tide. I agree that instituting a death penalty is feel-good legislation. It's not a deterent to crime, it's incredibly expensive to taxpayers, and whether or not one will get a death sentence has much less to do with the nature of the crime one committed than it does with whether one has the money to afford a decent attorney. If those things aren't enough, there's the fact that we've executed some folks and found out later that they weren't guilty of the crime we killed them for. It's kind of hard to undo stuff like that.

OrionTheWolf -> RE: Feel good laws (4/6/2009 6:20:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MmeGigs I couldn't disagree with you more about this being a "feel good" law. We've sure noticed the positive effects of these laws around here. Feds score against homegrown meth "Two years ago, Minnesota began restricting sales of cold medicines. The year before, police seized 212 meth labs in the state. In 2006, the number of seized labs plunged to 59 — a 72% reduction. Meth-related emergency room visits in Minnesota fell by two-thirds to 480," I don't know that the laws have done much to decrease the amount of meth out there, but shutting down the home-cookers was about a lot more than that. Those home labs are dangerous - literally bombs just waiting to explode. The places where this stuff has been cooked are coated floor-to-ceiling with seriously toxic crap - they need hazmat teams to come clean them up. These laws have saved loads of tax $ and a not inconsiderable number of lives. There is no direct evidence that this kind of law did anything, other than have them change their recipe. Not to mention, most sales (would need to check the DEA site again) were not over the counter sales. yes the labs are dangerous, and they still are and operating. Show me how this law has directly saved lives and tax dollars. I will be happy to change my mind if the evidence can be provided, but knowing what I know, all it did is push for a chemist to come up with a different recipe and we actually have ICE (smokable form of meth) now being more prevelant. Don't get me wrong, I know how dangerous these labs and this drug can be. I also know how easily this law can be gotten around, so the law may have slowed things down for a short amount of time, but does nothing now.

TheHeretic -> RE: Feel good laws (4/6/2009 6:35:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda Some legislator here in Minnesota is apparently trying to push a law that would make it possible for veterans to have their driver's licenses reflect that they are veterans. The purpose, according to the explanation on news? So that if a police officer pulls them over, or responds to any sort of complaint at their home, they'll have some warning and be able to take heightened precautions. The problem? It would be voluntary. That means that the idiot who is pushing this bill expects veterans to voluntarily flag their driver's licenses so that any time they get pulled over for a speeding ticket the cop approaches their car with his gun drawn. I don't know if my vocabulary includes any words adequate to describe the stupidity of that reasoning. Huh? I'm not sure where this idea that cops are going to treat veterans as dangerous sociopaths comes from. Projection of prejudice maybe? My encounters with law enforcement have normally taken a turn for the better when my prior military service comes into the equation. I have walked away from situations that could have gone in another direction badly. My brother has a notation on his license plate that he is a disabled veteran. He gets warnings, instead of speeding tickets. Now if you want 'feel good' laws, I would say most of the laws on storing guns that I'm aware of, and California has a few, are useless scraps of paper. Any gun owner with a lick of sense is dealing with those issues already.

slvemike4u -> RE: Feel good laws (4/6/2009 6:43:46 PM)
And one can assume all gun owners have a lick of sense....how exactly does that work. Only people with sense buy guns?...Or the very act of buying a gun endows one with sense?

TheHeretic -> RE: Feel good laws (4/6/2009 8:13:56 PM)
There is no enforcement, Mike. Enforcement is impossible. It is a charge to prosecute with AFTER a tragedy. The idiot gun owners don't pay any more attention to the laws than idiot automobile owners (might be the same people even). The laws have the unintended consequence of stifling development, too. My handgun (a simple revolver) has a nifty integrated trigger lock. Quick, simple, solid. A very practical solution, to a legitimate safety issue. Guess what? That lock isn't on the 'approved' list. Is it on this years model?

blacksword404 -> RE: Feel good laws (4/6/2009 8:30:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: subrob1967 quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u Megan's Law and other such ill-advised emotional reactions to heinous crimes.Please make no mistake about it I have no doubt that all and any that harm ums deserve a place of their own in hell,but releasing some one from prison ,after he has served his sentence....while simultaneously branding him with a virtual scarlet letter...is quite probably unconstitutional and certainly unworkable.Rape or molest a minor and as far as I'm concerned you should be locked up for life.The proliferation of offender list's does not serve to make people safer ,though it does have the potential of putting other wise law abiding citizens in the role of vigilantes. The offender list's are in some states totally rediculous,in some instances children have been placed on these lists for the high crime of playing "doctor" with another perhaps younger minor....removal from these lists are nigh on impossible to accomplish.Lives are ruined ...all in the spurious hope of making the um's safer. Laws should never be fashion from a passionate view...they are usually a disaster,these would IMO qualify for that distinction For once we agree 100% But I'd add "hate" laws to this. Assault/Battery is assault/battery regardless of what sex/nationality the person is. I would have to agree.

ThatDamnedPanda -> RE: Feel good laws (4/6/2009 9:19:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TheHeretic Huh? I'm not sure where this idea that cops are going to treat veterans as dangerous sociopaths comes from. Projection of prejudice maybe? My encounters with law enforcement have normally taken a turn for the better when my prior military service comes into the equation. I have walked away from situations that could have gone in another direction badly. My brother has a notation on his license plate that he is a disabled veteran. He gets warnings, instead of speeding tickets. It's not my perception, though. That's the reason the legislator gave for this idiotic scheme - his Big Idea is that if police officers have advance warning that the person they're making contact with is a veteran, they'll "be warned and better prepared". Not so they can be friendlier to them, but so they can take precautions and protect themselves, lest the big bad veteran flip out and hurt them. I'm not a vet, but i find it deeply insulting to those who are. And idiotic to imagine that it would be the least bit effective.

CruelNUnsual -> RE: Feel good laws (4/6/2009 9:24:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou One of the most irritating laws I can think of is the federal requirement for toilets and shower heads to be low-flow. You can't buy a shower-head anywhere in this country that has decent water pressure. My damn toilet has to be plunged if I use more than a handful of toilet paper. It's annoying and completely unnecessary. Take the flow restrictor out of the shower head and that problem is solved. The toilet unfortunately requires replacement, but those with power assisted flushing at least avoids that disgusting job a few times a week!

slvemike4u -> RE: Feel good laws (4/6/2009 9:28:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TheHeretic There is no enforcement, Mike. Enforcement is impossible. It is a charge to prosecute with AFTER a tragedy. The idiot gun owners don't pay any more attention to the laws than idiot automobile owners (might be the same people even). The laws have the unintended consequence of stifling development, too. My handgun (a simple revolver) has a nifty integrated trigger lock. Quick, simple, solid. A very practical solution, to a legitimate safety issue. Guess what? That lock isn't on the 'approved' list. Is it on this years model? Sorry Rich...I sort of misunderstood your original post...though I would disagree with you on one point...there are few laws where enforcement is possible from a preventive standpoint.As a matter of fact our whole Justice system is predicated on after the fact...we have no laws,of a criminal nature,that are designed to prevent...they are there as a consequence for illegal and in this case criminally stupid behavior.In effect enforcement by definition must come after the fact .

bigbrokenmachine -> RE: Feel good laws (4/6/2009 10:18:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MmeGigs I couldn't disagree with you more about this being a "feel good" law. We've sure noticed the positive effects of these laws around here. Feds score against homegrown meth "Two years ago, Minnesota began restricting sales of cold medicines. The year before, police seized 212 meth labs in the state. In 2006, the number of seized labs plunged to 59 — a 72% reduction. Meth-related emergency room visits in Minnesota fell by two-thirds to 480," I don't know that the laws have done much to decrease the amount of meth out there, but shutting down the home-cookers was about a lot more than that. Those home labs are dangerous - literally bombs just waiting to explode. The places where this stuff has been cooked are coated floor-to-ceiling with seriously toxic crap - they need hazmat teams to come clean them up. These laws have saved loads of tax $ and a not inconsiderable number of lives. Possibly. But how many more would be saved if they just legalized OTC sales of pharmaceutical amphetamines, so that people didn't have to screw around with meth in the first place? In considering the value of any law, i consider the following: All laws, at the end of the day, rely on the power of the state to kill without recompense. If you don't pay the fine, refuse to go to prison, et cetera, the government will end you before it lets you "get away with it". So, for example, if someone died resisting arrest because, say, he bought a black-market toilet that used 2 gallons per flush, would you say "Yeah, that motherfucker had it coming!"? If not, then perhaps this is not an issue that deserves to incur the might of the State. [:-]

ThatDamnedPanda -> RE: Feel good laws (4/6/2009 10:46:02 PM)
By that logic, you could say the same about parking tickets. Or am I missing something here?

Owner59 -> RE: Feel good laws (4/6/2009 10:59:44 PM)
Isn`t is strange that the folks who rant that government can`t do anything right think government can be trusted not to execute an innocent person?

popeye1250 -> RE: Feel good laws (4/6/2009 11:00:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou One of the most irritating laws I can think of is the federal requirement for toilets and shower heads to be low-flow. You can't buy a shower-head anywhere in this country that has decent water pressure. My damn toilet has to be plunged if I use more than a handful of toilet paper. It's annoying and completely unnecessary. Slaveboy, do you own a drill? Drill a few extra holes in the shower head and you'll have plenty of pressure. I have one of those toilets and I never have a problem with it.

popeye1250 -> RE: Feel good laws (4/6/2009 11:07:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TheHeretic quote: ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda Some legislator here in Minnesota is apparently trying to push a law that would make it possible for veterans to have their driver's licenses reflect that they are veterans. The purpose, according to the explanation on news? So that if a police officer pulls them over, or responds to any sort of complaint at their home, they'll have some warning and be able to take heightened precautions. The problem? It would be voluntary. That means that the idiot who is pushing this bill expects veterans to voluntarily flag their driver's licenses so that any time they get pulled over for a speeding ticket the cop approaches their car with his gun drawn. I don't know if my vocabulary includes any words adequate to describe the stupidity of that reasoning. Huh? I'm not sure where this idea that cops are going to treat veterans as dangerous sociopaths comes from. Projection of prejudice maybe? My encounters with law enforcement have normally taken a turn for the better when my prior military service comes into the equation. I have walked away from situations that could have gone in another direction badly. My brother has a notation on his license plate that he is a disabled veteran. He gets warnings, instead of speeding tickets. Now if you want 'feel good' laws, I would say most of the laws on storing guns that I'm aware of, and California has a few, are useless scraps of paper. Any gun owner with a lick of sense is dealing with those issues already. Heretic, true that. And, a high percentage of cops and firefighters are also Veterans too.

Owner59 -> RE: Feel good laws (4/6/2009 11:07:42 PM)
Not all water saving toilets are alike. The best ones have a water jet sending water down the drain when you flush.It get`s everything going fast w/out waiting for the whirlpool action.

soul2share -> RE: Feel good laws (4/7/2009 4:17:13 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda Some legislator here in Minnesota is apparently trying to push a law that would make it possible for veterans to have their driver's licenses reflect that they are veterans. The purpose, according to the explanation on news? So that if a police officer pulls them over, or responds to any sort of complaint at their home, they'll have some warning and be able to take heightened precautions. The problem? It would be voluntary. That means that the idiot who is pushing this bill expects veterans to voluntarily flag their driver's licenses so that any time they get pulled over for a speeding ticket the cop approaches their car with his gun drawn. I don't know if my vocabulary includes any words adequate to describe the stupidity of that reasoning. I'm sorry, but the thinking above is total bullshit.......out of the killings that have all happened in the last week, how many of the shooters were veterans?????? Unfortunately, most veterans commit suicide, not homicide. I wonder what color the sky is in this idiots little world? (The legislator, not the poster!)

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