Obamas distraction strategy of saber rattling or something else (Full Version)

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MasterShake69 -> Obamas distraction strategy of saber rattling or something else (4/6/2009 7:40:29 AM)

What is the big deal about N Korea launching a satellite into orbit?  We knew for over a week they were going to launch the rocket and they had received assistance from Iran with its development.  For a week Obama has been hyping up this story to serve as a distraction for the upcoming unemployment numbers.  Making a huge deal about something that clearly didn't go anywhere near as far as the predictions. 
Both Iran and N Korea are pushing the limits of the UN.  When one gets away with something the other then does the same exact thing and assists the other in doing it. How can we punish N Korea without punishing Iran too???  Now Obama is talking about punishing N Korea but he knows china and Russia will block any such actions..  ALso what kind of punishment are you going to use???  Anything you could do to N Korea will just harm the average citizen which the N Korean leader has virtually zero interest in helping.  So we are going to huff and puff but that's it??  And how has Obamas new tone worked with Iran?  Did it get the Iranian govt to stop assisting N Koreans nuclear program??  Just because Obamas new tone doesn't use the words the AXIS of evil doesn't mean they will become nice friendly country's.  Back in the 1940's if you stopped calling Hitler a Nazi, it wouldn't have changed his extermination policy's ;)  
   
Basically all of Obamas actions just serve the function of Distracting the American people from the economic problems we currently have.  The only immediate threat our nation faces is the economy.  Since he clearly isn't going to do anything of substance against N Korea or Iran its all just a distraction.  If you attack one you must attack the other since they are now workign together.  Then again who is the real Barrack Obama???

http://dissidentvoice.org/Oct04/Smith1012.htm

Democrats’ Obama Ready to Bomb Iran
by Sharon Smith
www.dissidentvoice.org
October 12, 2004
John Kerry's antiwar supporters have repeatedly warned that a military attack on Iran is imminent if George Bush is reelected. But Democrats are rattling their sabers at the same target. On September 24, Barack Obama -- the Democratic candidate for U.S. Senate from Illinois, and a shoo-in favorite -- suggested “surgical missile strikes” on Iran may become necessary. “[L]aunching some missile strikes into Iran is not the optimal position for us to be in” given the ongoing war in Iraq, Obama told the Chicago Tribune. “On the other hand, having a radical Muslim theocracy in possession of nuclear weapons is worse,” he said. Obama went on to argue that military strikes on Pakistan should not be ruled out if “violent Islamic extremists” were to “take over.” A U.S. strike on Iran could well open up a new war front. When the CIA and Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA) conducted a recent series of war games involving an attack on Iran, an Air Force source told Newsweek, "The war games were unsuccessful at preventing the conflict from escalating." Why would Obama, whose staunch opposition to the Iraq war made him a hero among Democratic Party liberals, consider attacking Iran? Obama -- a keynote speaker at the Democratic Party Convention -- has a bright future in the Democratic Party. And the Democratic Party is a war party. Obama opposes immediate withdrawal from Iraq. His positions are entirely consistent with the Democratic Party’s platform, which explicitly puts Iran on notice: "[A] nuclear-armed Iran is an unacceptable risk to us and our allies...With John Kerry as commander-in-chief, we will never wait for a green light from abroad when our safety is at stake."






slvemike4u -> RE: Obamas distraction strategy of saber rattling or something else (4/6/2009 8:21:12 AM)

Two things MS...first  off kudos to you for being able to discern the thinking behind our new Presidents words.While the rest of us must simply read and interpret the words...you would seem to have an almost otherworldly ability to state with certainty the motivation behind the words....Kudo's a distraction sheesh..I didn't know that.
Secondly it is a big deal when a country that has tested and would seem to have enough material for 6 to 8 nuclear devices...moves on to testing delivery systems....You are of course right ,at the present time they can not threaten us...but they can threaten our interests....South Korea....Japan.
These are trade partners and allies....if the "Dear Leader" had fired off a rocket...and an American President(any American President) had nothing to say about it questions would be asked the world over wondering why the silence from the White House.
On second thought a third issue has struck me...you state the only immediate threat we face is the economy...let me ask you this.....is it your contention all President Obama need do is work on the economy...he has,in your eyes, no other responsibilities....Let the rest of the world do as it will...if it ain't about money ignore it?



OrionTheWolf -> RE: Obamas distraction strategy of saber rattling or something else (4/6/2009 8:39:50 AM)

It is likely politics as usual. Even if Obama is trying to be different than other Presidents or politicians (which I doubt, but willing to wait longer to see for sure), those that around him have experience with the same game using the same strategies.



slvemike4u -> RE: Obamas distraction strategy of saber rattling or something else (4/6/2009 9:53:47 AM)

Amazing President Obama reacts much the way any American President would to such an event.....and one poster sees the President using N.Korea's launch as a distraction another sees it as "the same game the same strategies".
IMO this is not a distraction,this is not a game...the only scenario more destabilizing than N.Korea having ICBM capabilities is Iran successfully detonating a Nuclear device.Thankfully it appears the test was a failure...though it has been said that in this field one learns more from ones failures than ones successes.
     This is a potential game changer...and will force the U S to possibly need Chineese co-operation,forcing concessions in another area perhaps.....trade concessions quite possibly...thereby affecting the economy and not in a good way either(from our point of view.....though China is probably giddy at our discomfit)



MasterShake69 -> RE: Obamas distraction strategy of saber rattling or something else (4/6/2009 11:07:05 AM)

And when the left would say bush was doing this or that against Iran or N Korea to distract the American public from the "fill in the blank" hmmmm  that demonstrates the lefts otherworldly ability to state with certainty the motivation behind the words ;)

The facts are clearly Obama isn't going to even threaten to take any unilateral actions.  The UN isn't going to back any other actions except maybe sanctions and that's now very unlikely.  Even if that were to occur its also very ineffective too ;)

If Obamas charisma and blame America attitude cant get the UN to back sanctions....then how effective is he really???
He and the rest of the world had plenty of warning over a week and Obama could have made some calls and got support lined up.

Maybe used some pressure from China to prevent N Korea from launching.  So by Obamas inaction showed his lack of responsibility.  Only thing he was left with was to huff and puff.  Words backed by nothing is not a real alternative to being responsible. 

All this talk about how much better Obama is then Bush is actually just talk when you are looking for actual substance. Now Mr Obama is a very intelligent man.  He knew he wasn't going to change the ways of the world.  So he must have some other motivation.  The most oblivious is to actually do what democrats always falsely accuse republicans of doing.  ;)


http://www.commondreams.org/headlines07/0126-10.htm
This strategy is attractive to Bush for a variety of reasons, not least that focusing greater attention on Iran may serve to "distract public attention from the Iraqi disaster

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/GK17Ak05.html
Wag the dog: Crisis scenarios for Bush
By Michael T Klar
There are many who claim that Bush could not possibly contemplate military action against Iran, Syria or any other hostile power at present. American forces, they argue, are stretched to the limit in Iraq and so lack the capacity to undertake a significant campaign in another country. At the very least, these analysts overlook the massive American air and naval capabilities hardly engaged in Iraq, and certainly available for use elsewhere.

But this is not the point. As Wag the Dog suggested, war itself is not the only way to distract public attention from the president's domestic woes. An atmosphere of crisis in which rumors of war or preparations for war come to overshadow all else might well do the trick - and administration officials don't need fresh armies to accomplish this, only plausible scenarios for the escalation of existing foreign troubles. These, unfortunately, are all too easy to find.

What then are the most promising scenarios at hand for such a purpose? Many such scenarios might be envisioned, but the most credible ones - barring a major new terrorist attack on the United States - would entail a military showdown with Syria, Iran or North Korea.



quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Two things MS...first  off kudos to you for being able to discern the thinking behind our new Presidents words.While the rest of us must simply read and interpret the words...you would seem to have an almost otherworldly ability to state with certainty the motivation behind the words....Kudo's a distraction sheesh..I didn't know that.
Secondly it is a big deal when a country that has tested and would seem to have enough material for 6 to 8 nuclear devices...moves on to testing delivery systems....You are of course right ,at the present time they can not threaten us...but they can threaten our interests....South Korea....Japan.
These are trade partners and allies....if the "Dear Leader" had fired off a rocket...and an American President(any American President) had nothing to say about it questions would be asked the world over wondering why the silence from the White House.
On second thought a third issue has struck me...you state the only immediate threat we face is the economy...let me ask you this.....is it your contention all President Obama need do is work on the economy...he has,in your eyes, no other responsibilities....Let the rest of the world do as it will...if it ain't about money ignore it?



MasterShake69 -> RE: Obamas distraction strategy of saber rattling or something else (4/6/2009 11:16:49 AM)

just to think we wouldn't be in the situation today if in the early 90's Mr jimmy carter didn't unilaterally interfere with Bill Clinton's foreign policy ;)
Anybody know what Bill Clinton wanted to do with N Korea before Jimmy Carter got involved ???
Its very hard to find because most of what you read today is the political spin of the events afterwords.
You have to find news articles for the exact specific days......its not easy to do because its also the early days of the internet popularity.



quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Amazing President Obama reacts much the way any American President would to such an event.....and one poster sees the President using N.Korea's launch as a distraction another sees it as "the same game the same strategies".
IMO this is not a distraction,this is not a game...the only scenario more destabilizing than N.Korea having ICBM capabilities is Iran successfully detonating a Nuclear device.Thankfully it appears the test was a failure...though it has been said that in this field one learns more from ones failures than ones successes.
    This is a potential game changer...and will force the U S to possibly need Chineese co-operation,forcing concessions in another area perhaps.....trade concessions quite possibly...thereby affecting the economy and not in a good way either(from our point of view.....though China is probably giddy at our discomfit)



MasterShake69 -> RE: Obamas distraction strategy of saber rattling or something else (4/6/2009 11:21:39 AM)

We knew this event was going to occur for over a MONTH how is it a big news story????

http://www.dprkstudies.org/2009/03/13/north-korea-plans-april-2009-missile-launch/

North Korea Plans April 2009 Missile Launch by Richardson ~ March 13th, 2009. Filed under: DPRK Military, Missiles. In an attempt to quell speculation about a possible ICBM (a missile that typically delivers a nuclear warhead) test launch, North Korea recently signed related international treaties and announced it plans to launch a satellite in early April:
An international maritime agency official said Thursday that the [International Maritime Organization] has received a letter from North Korea saying it will launch a satellite between April 4-8. (emphasis added)
As I noted a few weeks ago, there are several advantages to launching a satellite rather than an ICBM with a payload. Briefly; 1) To focus the nascent Obama administration on the issue. Went off like clockwork. 2) Iran received little criticism after launching a satellite in early February. 3) An SLV is technically easier but tests the exact same technology needed for an ICBM, which could potentially be armed with a nuclear weapon.



slvemike4u -> RE: Obamas distraction strategy of saber rattling or something else (4/6/2009 11:36:26 AM)

MS following your multiple successive post's  takes a herculean effort....some thoughts though.
No,President Obama is probably not going to initiate some course of action unilaterly....it does not seem to be his style...nor should it be American policy to do these things unilaterly...better to engage the rest of the world when confronting these situations.
Secondly you seem to be upset that nothing was done prior to this taking place.....are you quite positive on that score.The Japanese protested this before hand.The Chinese are on record asking N.Korea not to launch (perhaps at the behest of our State Dept.)If Obamas charisma and blame America attitude cant get the UN to back sanctions....then how effective is he really???

"He and the rest of the world had plenty of warning over a week and Obama could have made some calls and got support lined up.

Maybe used some pressure from China to prevent N Korea from launching.  So by Obamas inaction showed his lack of responsibility.  Only thing he was left with was to huff and puff.  Words backed by nothing is not a real alternative to being responsible.  "

Now as far as this quote of yours...do you know for a fact that President Obama was actually inactive over this...or is it possible that Chinese dissatisfaction,before the launch ,was as a result of behind the scenes talks between our gov,t and theirs.
Lastly,if it is said that one learns more from failures in this field than successes...perhaps we have learned a shitload of information concerning N.Korea's rocket program....it was a failure after all.




SilverMark -> RE: Obamas distraction strategy of saber rattling or something else (4/6/2009 11:56:06 AM)

Oh yes....North Korea with ICBM's is indeed a distraction and I am just certain it is part of the Socialistic Distraction Plan from the administration to ruin America... dot com....bit of a stretch even for an Obama hater like you MS....and really a bit humorous.
Let see, Kim Il Idiot, both an insane dictator that once shot an 18 on 18 holes of golf with a Napoleon complex having ballistic missiles...just what the world needs....and just to think, you make it sound as though Obama is such a wonderful planner of things crazy people will do, that he timed it perfectly to take the heat off of the economy.....OKKKKKKKKKKKK.....



MasterShake69 -> RE: Obamas distraction strategy of saber rattling or something else (4/6/2009 12:22:12 PM)


so hillary clinton leaves the region and the missile gets launched ;)

when you make a trip to china and you beg them to loan us money for Obamas spending bill that's not a position of strength.  Its not going to go well when then you ask them to push a  hard line against N Korea.

Also N korea has been doing lots of things to get our attention.  


http://english.pravda.ru/world/americas/20-02-2009/107135-hillary_clinton-0

North Korea has recently taken a number of abrupt moves against its neighbors. The actions of NKorean battleships in the Yellow Sea have become more provocative recently. In addition, Pyongyang threatened to destroy the SKorean government, which refused to provide gratuitous aid to the north. It is obvious that North Korea has been doing all that to attract the attention of the new US president. NKorea wants Obama to understand that the USA must not put its problems into cold storage, taking into consideration the fact that NKorea was not a part of 20 vital directions of Obama’s activities in foreign politics. The USA has swallowed the North Korean bait, but Washington has all chances to get rid of the fire in the region, which will also help it improve the ties with China.

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

MS following your multiple successive post's  takes a herculean effort....some thoughts though.
No,President Obama is probably not going to initiate some course of action unilaterly....it does not seem to be his style...nor should it be American policy to do these things unilaterly...better to engage the rest of the world when confronting these situations.
Secondly you seem to be upset that nothing was done prior to this taking place.....are you quite positive on that score.The Japanese protested this before hand.The Chinese are on record asking N.Korea not to launch (perhaps at the behest of our State Dept.)If Obamas charisma and blame America attitude cant get the UN to back sanctions....then how effective is he really???

"He and the rest of the world had plenty of warning over a week and Obama could have made some calls and got support lined up.

Maybe used some pressure from China to prevent N Korea from launching.  So by Obamas inaction showed his lack of responsibility.  Only thing he was left with was to huff and puff.  Words backed by nothing is not a real alternative to being responsible.  "

Now as far as this quote of yours...do you know for a fact that President Obama was actually inactive over this...or is it possible that Chinese dissatisfaction,before the launch ,was as a result of behind the scenes talks between our gov,t and theirs.
Lastly,if it is said that one learns more from failures in this field than successes...perhaps we have learned a shitload of information concerning N.Korea's rocket program....it was a failure after all.





MasterShake69 -> RE: Obamas distraction strategy of saber rattling or something else (4/6/2009 12:33:33 PM)

All i am doing is changing words from Bush to Obama and repeating the same theory's the past 8 years used to attack Bush.     But I'm just adding the fact that it fits a lot better now then when it was used against Bush ;)



quote:

ORIGINAL: SilverMark

Oh yes....North Korea with ICBM's is indeed a distraction and I am just certain it is part of the Socialistic Distraction Plan from the administration to ruin America... dot com....bit of a stretch even for an Obama hater like you MS....and really a bit humorous.
Let see, Kim Il Idiot, both an insane dictator that once shot an 18 on 18 holes of golf with a Napoleon complex having ballistic missiles...just what the world needs....and just to think, you make it sound as though Obama is such a wonderful planner of things crazy people will do, that he timed it perfectly to take the heat off of the economy.....OKKKKKKKKKKKK.....




SilverMark -> RE: Obamas distraction strategy of saber rattling or something else (4/6/2009 12:38:36 PM)

Hey...the world knows Kim Il Idiot is a nut bag....it didn't change due to our change in whom holds the oval office. Did you expect it to be ignored? Did you expect for Obama to say..."don't worry folks...it's ok". To think that somehow Obama's reaction is a smokescreen for some ulterior motive is beyond understanding.Having read enough of your posts to know you are a pretty bright person I find this to be akin to one of our other posters "the sky is falling" rants. 



slvemike4u -> RE: Obamas distraction strategy of saber rattling or something else (4/6/2009 12:41:51 PM)

I don't know Mark,the tone of these post's reads much like the rest of his stuff.
Pretty much all adds up to "the sky is falling ...and it's all obama's fault"



slvemike4u -> RE: Obamas distraction strategy of saber rattling or something else (4/6/2009 12:45:34 PM)

Lets look at the tittle of hisd thread....Korea engages in a provacative action,the launching of a rocket which could concievably carry a warhead.....and he starts a thread indicating President Obama is doing the "sabre rattling"....



Arpig -> RE: Obamas distraction strategy of saber rattling or something else (4/6/2009 12:46:34 PM)

quote:

All i am doing is changing words from Bush to Obama and repeating the same theory's the past 8 years used to attack Bush.

Actually not...I never saw anybody post that Bush was trying to distract us from unemployment figures



MasterShake69 -> RE: Obamas distraction strategy of saber rattling or something else (4/6/2009 11:53:34 PM)

Ive seen the left use many arguments for the need of distraction.

http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0706-08.htm
Published on Sunday, July 6, 2003 by the Baltimore Sun
Using One War to Distract From Another
by G. Jefferson Price III



http://world.std.com/~swmcd/steven/rants/bush.html

to distract the voters The United States faces many domestic problems
  • a faltering economy
  • high unemployment
  • massive budget deficits at the federal, state, and local levels
  • education
  • health care
  • the War on Drugs
Despite all this, Bush's domestic agenda can be summarized as
  • more power for Republicans
  • more money for rich people
If the American people actually understood this, they would object, and it would be harder for Bush to get what he wants. So it serves Bush to keep the voters distracted—for example, with a foreign war.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

quote:

All i am doing is changing words from Bush to Obama and repeating the same theory's the past 8 years used to attack Bush.

Actually not...I never saw anybody post that Bush was trying to distract us from unemployment figures



MasterShake69 -> RE: Obamas distraction strategy of saber rattling or something else (4/7/2009 12:05:44 AM)

So what substance is Obama doing about N Korea?  What is Obama planning on doing???

You know what would really piss N Korea off.  Just say....we don't care about N Korea and ignore them.   N Korea could have launched the rocket off in Iran and accomplished everything they did a few days ago without any possible negative consequences.  Its just that they desire the attention the US gives them. 

Now if i wanted to attack Obama i would say......hmmmm Obama weakness created the permissive environment allowing them to break there agreements with the UN.  ;)


quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

I don't know Mark,the tone of these post's reads much like the rest of his stuff.
Pretty much all adds up to "the sky is falling ...and it's all obama's fault"



MrRodgers -> RE: Obamas distraction strategy of saber rattling or something else (4/7/2009 12:19:51 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterShake69

just to think we wouldn't be in the situation today if in the early 90's Mr jimmy carter didn't unilaterally interfere with Bill Clinton's foreign policy ;)
Anybody know what Bill Clinton wanted to do with N Korea before Jimmy Carter got involved ???
Its very hard to find because most of what you read today is the political spin of the events afterwords.
You have to find news articles for the exact specific days......its not easy to do because its also the early days of the internet popularity.
quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Amazing President Obama reacts much the way any American President would to such an event.....and one poster sees the President using N.Korea's launch as a distraction another sees it as "the same game the same strategies".
IMO this is not a distraction,this is not a game...the only scenario more destabilizing than N.Korea having ICBM capabilities is Iran successfully detonating a Nuclear device.Thankfully it appears the test was a failure...though it has been said that in this field one learns more from ones failures than ones successes.
   This is a potential game changer...and will force the U S to possibly need Chineese co-operation,forcing concessions in another area perhaps.....trade concessions quite possibly...thereby affecting the economy and not in a good way either(from our point of view.....though China is probably giddy at our discomfit)


Whatever Carter and Clinton did I am sure was wrong...just ask anybody on the right and I am sure they will tell you. What was BUSH'S policy ? Benign neglect. Caught them red-handed counterfeiting US currency...withheld their finances and still relinquished in the end.



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