RE: stubbon submissive? edit

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LeatherBentOne -> RE: stubbon submissive? edit (3/29/2009 6:20:41 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ILoveBaldMen Can a individual be stubborn and submissive? Do you think an individual can become stubborn because they are submissive? The reason why I ask this is that as a child when I made a decision, I was always maneuvered to change my stance and following the decisions that were made by my parents (beyond the norm). As I grew older, I became very frustrated by the fact that I was easily manipulated into changing my decisions. Even decisions that I felt were steadfast; I would easily be steered into another direction by parents, friends and family and I felt helpless to prevent it. I felt like the only way I could get from point A to B without being run over was to become stubborn (this was done unintentionally at first) . For me it was a protection of sorts, in that I wanted to make a decision without feeling like I was being pushed around. I wanted to feel like I could make a decision for myself, by myself. In my experience . . . being stubborn about serious issues like contracts or limits is a good thing. Being disobedient doesnt work for me, nor does manipulative subs. If I were looking for a brat, then perhaps. Because I only play within a potential relationship or a relationship, and not looking for someone to Top for, I have no interest in a bottom. Have I been mistaken in the past. YES. It happened in my last relationship after almost 2 years of phone and visits. Once I got my belly full of the disobedience and manipulation, the relationship came to a grinding halt. After that, another Domme contacted me and told me she had the same experience with her, so I know it wasnt just in my mind. However . . . If youre being true to yourself and another person, perhaps thats just who you are. But, I get the feeling that maybe your really dont know who you are since you've always been tossed around by others. If so, my advice would be that you find work on finding out before you enter a relationship other than a casual one. Or, at least come clean about your tendencies and give a relationship a fighting chance. For your sake and the sake of someone else as I realised the person I thought I knew over those 2 years turned out to be polar opposite within a few short months og our relationship. Im sure there is someone out there for you, just as you are, but if you decide to hold off, please remember that a Dominant cannot fix you or tell you who you are. Good luck with your journey.

ILoveBaldMen -> RE: stubbon submissive? (3/29/2009 8:18:36 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: asianchloe Sure, it's a "people thing" but in the context of a bdsm D/s relationship, I find that a stubborn sub might still think of him/herself as a submissive but for my tastes, would not be a good sub. I think of stubbornness as an unwillingness to yield. In some contexts, such as achieving difficult, far-reaching goals, being stubborn (determined) is a good quality. In other cases, this adherence is obstinacy is a negative quality. In the context of any D/s relationship that I personally am involved in, an unwillingness to yield makes someone NOT submissive. (Of course, I observe hard limits and I am only speaking of things previously agreed to, either explicitly or assumed from many interactions.) Can you give some examples of when you are stubborn but still submissive? Or do you mean you are the submissive in your D/s relationship and stubborn in general personality but not to your dominant? I brought this subject up, mainly because I recently realized how stubborn I am and it might be interfering with my relationships. I know that I am perceived as being submissive, I know that I am very submissive, I know that if I react to a dominant that I bend more freely to his will. Yet, I tend to have a stubborn streak that is wonderful in my work life and my ability to achieve my personal goals... but might be doing damage to my personal life. How: I tend to want to know more about what is going to happen before I yield... then I most likely should. I don't tend to follow blindly..rather I will follow him (in certain areas) when I feel it is safe. I would not categorize myself as a brat, because I want/need to serve... I just tend to let the fear of the unknown holds me back sometimes (and become unknowingly stubborn ), I would not say I was unwilling to follow (the complete opposite actually).. I am just much more tentative about following a dominant especially at first. I hope that helps explain things a bit better.. (again realizing how stubborn I am is a fairly new revaluation, so I don't have all the answers just yet)

ILoveBaldMen -> RE: stubbon submissive? edit (3/29/2009 8:50:19 AM)
I don't believe that I have ever been disobedient or manipulative. It would be against my grain/be emotionally painful to do so. (Will I say I am stubborn out of the fear of the unknown yes.. which in turn might give the impression I am being disobedient or manipulative , but it is not something that I am conscious) I would not in any way shape or form categorize myself as a brat, (and hopefully I am not perceived in such a way) Like anyone else, I have had both good and bad relationships. And at this point in my life I am fairly confident in who I am ( and I am honest enough to know I have hick ups now and then)...The reason for this post is that I just had one of those light bulb moments where I realized that maybe it was the fact that I am stubborn at times... and that is what is getting in the way. I had never put two and two together before.

chiaThePet -> RE: stubbon submissive? edit (3/29/2009 10:30:05 AM)
I'm not saying, and you can't make me. Ok, yes. chia* (the pet)

marsman -> RE: stubbon submissive? edit (3/29/2009 10:53:54 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ILoveBaldMen Can a individual be stubborn and submissive? Do you think an individual can become stubborn because they are submissive? I love it when my submissive is stubborn. The conversation often goes something like this: D: What did you call me? S: Nothing, Obie Wan. [whap] D: That's not my name. S: Yes it is I always call you Obie Wan. [whap] [whap] D: Call me Sir S: That's not your name o great one. [whap] [whap] [whap] [whap]... S: What's my name? D: Sir, Master, Sir

RealSub58 -> RE: stubbon submissive? edit (3/29/2009 11:04:12 AM)
Is not stubbornness the opposite of submission? stubborn - tenaciously unwilling or marked by tenacious unwillingness to yield Stubborn because of being submissive? I would not think so. Being able to some what relate to only what you have written, passive aggressive is the way a person who is submissive of nature would probably act. Passive-aggressive behavior refers to passive, sometimes resistance to following authoritative instructions in interpersonal or occupational situations. With this said decision making - the cognitive process of reaching a decisioncognition - the psychological result of perception and learning and reasoningI think that the decision to become stubborn was indeed a cognitive one, yes benign at first, but when you realized it, you now had the choice to either become stubborn continually or assume responsibility of being assertive. assertive - aggressively self-assuredAssertive style of behavior is to express your own feelings in an honest and respectful way that does not insult people and to stand up for your rights while you know what you say is not the only valid truth. Being assertive is to one's benefit most of the time but it does not mean that one always gets what he/she wants. The result of being assertive is that 1) you feel good about yourself 2) other people know how to deal with you and there is nothing vague about dealing with you. My resourses:http://www.thefreedictionary.com/http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/ These are just my thoughts.

whip50157 -> RE: stubbon submissive? edit (3/29/2009 11:34:08 AM)
Stubborn or having her own opinion? Quite frankly I enjoy a woman with her own opinion vs. a woman who follows mindlessly. Changing a decision should not be done through manipulation, but rather through Socratic coaching, or at an appropriate time, strict guidance.

littlewonder -> RE: stubbon submissive? (3/29/2009 7:25:24 PM)
Sure they can be stubborn..doesn't mean it will bode well for them though if they enter a d/s relationship.

heartbound -> RE: stubbon submissive? (4/3/2009 11:51:08 PM)
I am definitely a stubborn submissive. In day to day life I am very dominant and stubborn is just part of my personality. However, being a submissive completes me in some way and gives me great harmony in life. As to Mistress, I know my stubbornness is not always easy for her to handle. And as much as I try not to be stubborn, I am often unsuccessful. Sometimes I need to be reminded that stubborn will not be tolerated. I often need to be put back in my place. However, it is nothing that a paddle won't cure...lol. However, I don't think that I am stubborn because I am a submissive, or a submissive because I am stubborn. I believe stubborn is a personality trait that I exhibit in both the vanilla world as well as the bdsm world. -heartbound For me, it is somewhat difficult

CollaredLisa -> RE: stubbon submissive? (4/4/2009 3:51:49 AM)
Anyone can be stubborn - I'm stubborn lol

favesclava -> RE: stubbon submissive? (4/4/2009 5:07:16 AM)
i'm very stubborn, independent, assertive female . i work in a place where people depend on me for their safety and well being. but when i'm with Him i'm softspoken, pliable , and relaxed. its like going on vacation when with Him. both feel natural to me.

kidwithknife -> RE: stubbon submissive? (4/4/2009 5:07:18 AM)
I think anyone is equally likely to be stubborn, whether dom, sub or switch. It's a character trait that's there regardless of orientation. However, I do think it's quite likely that the expression of that stubborness will be different.

sambamanslilgirl -> RE: stubbon submissive? (4/4/2009 5:47:22 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: littlekitten1 I'm stubborn.... so am i with a dab of perfectionist and aggressiveness in the mix

DesFIP -> RE: stubbon submissive? (4/4/2009 6:31:09 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ILoveBaldMen How: I tend to want to know more about what is going to happen before I yield... then I most likely should. I don't tend to follow blindly..rather I will follow him (in certain areas) when I feel it is safe. I would not categorize myself as a brat, because I want/need to serve... I just tend to let the fear of the unknown holds me back sometimes (and become unknowingly stubborn ), I would not say I was unwilling to follow (the complete opposite actually).. I am just much more tentative about following a dominant especially at first. To me, this just means you're smart. You aren't going to allow just anyone who calls themselves dominant to have authority over you. You will take the time necessary to know them well enough that they are trustworthy and that they are capable of making good decisions. I don't think you'll get into a relationship right away, but I do think that when you do it will be with someone who won't turn around a couple of months later and break all his promises. If more submissives, and dominants, thought like this then we would see a lot less drama here. A lot less reports of someone suddenly discovering that their partner wasn't what they thought he/she was. Because holding back until you've observed the other person under stress, until you are sure their actions agree with their words, until you get what you need and not just lip service - all these in my book are good things. This is how you don't have to come complaining that you knew someone two years and then discovered they were lying. Because if you had taken the time to truly know them, in more than a sexual way, ahead of time, you wouldn't have gotten into a relationship to begin with. I'd call you smart and cautious. And those are characteristics that will help keep you safe.

FullfigRIMAAM1 -> RE: stubbon submissive? edit (4/4/2009 6:45:48 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: chiaThePet I'm not saying, and you can't make me. Ok, yes. chia* (the pet) If you always fold that fast, anyone can deal with your stubborness Chia. [8D] quote: asianchloe Sure, it's a "people thing" but in the context of a bdsm D/s relationship, I find that a stubborn sub might still think of him/herself as a submissive but for my tastes, would not be a good sub. I think of stubbornness as an unwillingness to yield. In some contexts, such as achieving difficult, far-reaching goals, being stubborn (determined) is a good quality. In other cases, this adherence is obstinacy is a negative quality. In the context of any D/s relationship that I personally am involved in, an unwillingness to yield makes someone NOT submissive. I agree completely. It's absolutely appropriate to have open communication with one's dominant. It's perfectly okay for a submissive to respectfully speak up, express reservation, when/if something unacceptable is asked of him/her... Especially if what is asked, violates some personal/safety/moral boundaries. I will listen to anyone, discuss anything, and when given a reasonable explanation for resisting obedience, I don't think twice about modifying or dropping the request/command. However, stubborness, is about retaining control (over something, sometimes having nothing to do with the subject at hand), and that would not work well with moi at all. M

chiaThePet -> RE: stubbon submissive? edit (4/4/2009 7:20:24 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FullfigRIMAAM1 quote: ORIGINAL: chiaThePet I'm not saying, and you can't make me. Ok, yes. chia* (the pet) If you always fold that fast, anyone can deal with your stubborness Chia. [8D] Folding? Dealing? Ah yes, the much lamented Vegas "Hit Me" Poker Challenge. Where the loser must attend one hundred Wayne Mutant dinner shows. All together now, "I want some dead roses for a nude lady." Swoon. chia* (the pet)

lilmissdefiant -> RE: stubbon submissive? (4/4/2009 7:43:30 AM)
I am stubborn to the extreme, with the wrong person a simple conversation can turn into a heated argument in a matter of minutes, its just the way I am. Would anyone like me to explain why I am the way I am?

chiaThePet -> RE: stubbon submissive? (4/4/2009 7:52:00 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lilmissdefiant I am stubborn to the extreme, with the wrong person a simple conversation can turn into a heated argument in a matter of minutes, its just the way I am. Would anyone like me to explain why I am the way I am? You're trying to win a trip to Vegas? "Danke Schoen Darling, Danke Schoen Thank you for all the joy and the pain." Swoon. chia* (the pet)

Singway -> RE: stubbon submissive? (4/4/2009 8:55:35 AM)
I think the word stubborn can be easily used as a tool for manipulation. I consider stubborn to be continuing to do something even when it's obviously the least effective way, or a way that just doesn't work. Having a different opinion and not changing your mind doesn't in itself make one stubborn (hence the need for compromise). I had an ex who was not content with a "I have a different opinion, but am happy to go with yours.". He would then accuse me of being stubborn in the hopes of manipulating, or intimidating me into changing my opinion (ultimately, I believe, out of the fear of being solely responsible for the outcome). If you insist on doing something you know won't work, or refuse to compromise, then I believe the term stubborn is correct .

porcelaine -> RE: stubbon submissive? edit (4/4/2009 10:08:15 AM)
i'm stubborn and not so because i'm submissive, but merely because i opt not to give in to a particular situation at the given moment. i think we all have this trait, some merely exercise it more than others. i can see how a submissive role might provide someone with an opportunity to display feelings they'd normally repress. but i don't feel this is characteristic of most that engage in a power exchange. porcelaine

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