Make Made in America Mean Something? (Full Version)

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HeavansKeeper -> Make Made in America Mean Something? (3/27/2009 1:56:26 AM)

I'm less than pleased with billions of dollars being funneled from taxpayer to corporation so they can build call centers in Dubai, replacing American jobs. That said, companies take a real beating on the red line for building/assembling in the states... But that does create jobs here. Which is good. (Not trying to boil down an extremely complicated socioeconomic catastrophe in 3 sentences)

So, my trusted economic advisors... Do you think it would help in a significant way if US residents demanded and rewarded "Made in the USA?" Do you think we have the integrity to do it?



VanessaChaland -> RE: Make Made in America Mean Something? (3/27/2009 2:06:03 AM)

No. Isolation and protectionism is not going to benefit us (the average consumer of goods).
Sadly here is why, the plastics and iron and cardboard that become products, while the actual products might be assembled in the USA, will be purchased from overseas. The tech support will be outsourced overseas. Offshore tax shelters will be created by the corrupt fuckheads on Wall Street (in conjunction with, and approved by, Congress, White House, and K Street).

We need protective tariff, taxes on imports, stricter laws regarding tax shelters, oversight of Wall Street and Congress, those who lobby them, bribe them, to ensure that Corp. America plays by the rules and has the USA's best interest in heart. These SOBs will NEVER develop a spine and a conscience without their being forced too. Sad, but there it is. :)



HeavansKeeper -> RE: Make Made in America Mean Something? (3/27/2009 2:31:34 AM)

I'm not trying to excite a nationwide riot, demanding American made goods, starting on the collarme boards (incidentally, why not support the fine hand-crafted BDSM gear...[8D])

Basically, shit hit the fan, and the government decided to throw money at the problem. Unless it was a conspiracy, this huge bailout package was written in hours. You can't blame them for a ton of (all) oversights. I'm just happy every bank account wasn't reset to 0 and America becoming The Thunderdome.

Protectionism can be very dangerous. The cost of goods can skyrocket, and wages have always gone up slowly. I'm not calling for all out protectionist, 100% American raw materials, American design, American machining, and American assembly... I just want SOME part of the process to be in the states. Right now, the only "American" labor most of us see if the greeter at Walmart. Oh, also the guy who drove the truck.

Why is the government so afraid to add conditions to its continued loans? Conversely, are there any conditions which would help?



DarkSteven -> RE: Make Made in America Mean Something? (3/27/2009 7:35:49 AM)

We actually HAVE this.  The Department of Defense does not want to be dependent on companies in foreign lands, so they require all weapons systems to be made in the USA.



rulemylife -> RE: Make Made in America Mean Something? (3/27/2009 7:50:42 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

We actually HAVE this.  The Department of Defense does not want to be dependent on companies in foreign lands, so they require all weapons systems to be made in the USA.


I would like for that to be true, but the Harrier comes to mind off the top of my head and I'm sure I can find many others.



HeavansKeeper -> RE: Make Made in America Mean Something? (3/27/2009 12:32:15 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

We actually HAVE this.  The Department of Defense does not want to be dependent on companies in foreign lands, so they require all weapons systems to be made in the USA.


I don't think it's because we trust American made goods to be the only ones good enough for our soldiers. (In fact, Its arguable that they don't get the best gear available at the cost, but thats a different issue.) With the hard-to-fathom amount of money moving around, and arbitrary price tags, I must believe in American war profiteers. So why not make goods in America? You don't get the "Made in Taiwan" flack, you can artificially inflate prices under the excuse of not outsourcing. I believe the strategic goal of being self sufficient in creating our own weapons takes a back seat to the kickbacks.



slaveboyforyou -> RE: Make Made in America Mean Something? (3/27/2009 1:53:43 PM)

quote:

I would like for that to be true, but the Harrier comes to mind off the top of my head and I'm sure I can find many others.


The "Harrier" used by the U.S. Marine Corps is actually the AV-8B Harrier II.  It's manufactured by McDonnel-Douglas.  The origin of the current VTOL jet we use was from a joint U.S.-U.K. project.  So it is actually made in the U.S. 



Lordandmaster -> RE: Make Made in America Mean Something? (3/27/2009 2:12:28 PM)

What?

quote:

ORIGINAL: VanessaChaland

No. Isolation and protectionism is not going to benefit us (the average consumer of goods).

[snip]

We need protective tariff ...



Vendaval -> RE: Make Made in America Mean Something? (3/27/2009 3:32:34 PM)

Do remember that a product being made in the U.S.A. does not necessarily mean it was made by U.S. citizens or legal immigrants.



philosophy -> RE: Make Made in America Mean Something? (3/27/2009 3:53:01 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou

quote:

I would like for that to be true, but the Harrier comes to mind off the top of my head and I'm sure I can find many others.


The "Harrier" used by the U.S. Marine Corps is actually the AV-8B Harrier II.  It's manufactured by McDonnel-Douglas.  The origin of the current VTOL jet we use was from a joint U.S.-U.K. project.  So it is actually made in the U.S. 


...partially true......

This link gives a good over-view, but note the power plant......
http://www.globalaircraft.org/planes/av-8b_harrier_ii.pl

....and this link tells us where the powerplant in made....
http://www.deagel.com/Fighter-Aircraft-Engines/F402-RR-408_a001715002.aspx

......surprise.....it's the UK.



rulemylife -> RE: Make Made in America Mean Something? (3/27/2009 4:02:18 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou

quote:

I would like for that to be true, but the Harrier comes to mind off the top of my head and I'm sure I can find many others.


The "Harrier" used by the U.S. Marine Corps is actually the AV-8B Harrier II.  It's manufactured by McDonnel-Douglas.  The origin of the current VTOL jet we use was from a joint U.S.-U.K. project.  So it is actually made in the U.S. 


Which doesn't alter the fact it was a Hawker-Siddeley design originally and the technology behind it is from another country.



slaveboyforyou -> RE: Make Made in America Mean Something? (3/27/2009 5:23:27 PM)

quote:

Which doesn't alter the fact it was a Hawker-Siddeley design originally and the technology behind it is from another country.


The light bulb is an American idea.  Does that mean other countries don't manufacture them? 

Oh yeah, the airplane is an American invention.  So does that mean all airplanes manufactured in the world are essentially manufactured by us, including the Harrier?



awmslave -> RE: Make Made in America Mean Something? (3/27/2009 5:56:48 PM)

I saw recently an episode of Town Hall style meeting with L. Summers (C-SPAN coverage).  Lawrence Summers is the Director of the White House's National Economic Council for President Barack Obama. He had a question from the public about manufacturing in US. His answer was rather short: "Manufacturing is not a prospective growth area for US". This is how your government thinks. They are basically following the same Bush-Clinton-Bush globalist coroprate economic model. It is not economically smart to manufacture in US if this model is followed. Where do you find fools?



rulemylife -> RE: Make Made in America Mean Something? (3/27/2009 6:05:45 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou

quote:

Which doesn't alter the fact it was a Hawker-Siddeley design originally and the technology behind it is from another country.


The light bulb is an American idea.  Does that mean other countries don't manufacture them? 

Oh yeah, the airplane is an American invention.  So does that mean all airplanes manufactured in the world are essentially manufactured by us, including the Harrier?


To be honest, this is kind of a stupid argument.

I only responded to DarkSteven to say not all DOD projects are purely American design.

Which the Harrier is obviously not.



slaveboyforyou -> RE: Make Made in America Mean Something? (3/27/2009 6:16:22 PM)

quote:

To be honest, this is kind of a stupid argument.

I only responded to DarkSteven to say not all DOD projects are purely American design.

Which the Harrier is obviously not.


Honestly, no it's not stupid.  What you said was incorrect.  DarkSteven said:

quote:

We actually HAVE this.  The Department of Defense does not want to be dependent on companies in foreign lands, so they require all weapons systems to be made in the USA. 


which is essentially true.  You replied with:

quote:

I would like for that to be true, but the Harrier comes to mind off the top of my head and I'm sure I can find many others.


which is wrong.  The U.S. military does want manufacturing of it's equipment performed inside the United States.  You used the Harrier as an example, and the Harrier is a joint U.S./U.K. design.  You'd have been better off mentioning the U.S. issued sidearm which is of Italian design.  The M9 pistol (Beretta) had to establish manufacturing facilities inside the U.S. in order to equip the U.S. military.  It is made in the USA, which was DarkSteven's point.  So I'm not the one that is stupid.  You're just wrong.  It's okay, it happens sometimes.  Why not admit it?



rulemylife -> RE: Make Made in America Mean Something? (3/27/2009 6:21:28 PM)

You know, I thought of this after I posted but you already responded.

I didn't mean your argument was stupid, only we were arguing about something inconsequential.



slaveboyforyou -> RE: Make Made in America Mean Something? (3/27/2009 6:26:54 PM)

Good enough, and a man's answer.  Thank you. 



Politesub53 -> RE: Make Made in America Mean Something? (3/27/2009 6:51:47 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: HeavansKeeper

So, my trusted economic advisors... Do you think it would help in a significant way if US residents demanded and rewarded "Made in the USA?" Do you think we have the integrity to do it?



The sad answer, both in the US and the UK, is companies will buy goods from the cheapest source, as will consumers. Often we dont have the luxury of affording what we would like, so settle for what we can get.



philosophy -> RE: Make Made in America Mean Something? (3/27/2009 6:56:40 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou

The U.S. military does want manufacturing of it's equipment performed inside the United States.  You used the Harrier as an example, and the Harrier is a joint U.S./U.K. design.  You'd have been better off mentioning the U.S. issued sidearm which is of Italian design.  The M9 pistol (Beretta) had to establish manufacturing facilities inside the U.S. in order to equip the U.S. military.  It is made in the USA, which was DarkSteven's point.  So I'm not the one that is stupid.  You're just wrong.  It's okay, it happens sometimes.  Why not admit it?


....however you do seem to have skated blithely away from the post where i pointed out to you that the engine of the Harrier is manufactured outside of the US, in the UK.

Complex machines require a number of specialised manufacturing processes.....the US does not have a monopoly on these and if the US military want the best kit they may sometimes need to buy outside of the US.



Politesub53 -> RE: Make Made in America Mean Something? (3/27/2009 7:12:09 PM)

The AV-8B Harrier is an upgraded version of the AV-8A designed in the UK by Hawker Siddeley. The AV-8B is a joint veture.



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