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RE: Obama's message to Iran - 3/22/2009 6:20:31 AM   
StrangerThan


Posts: 1515
Joined: 4/25/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: maz123

What we might consider moderate the Iranian religious police consider to be counter revolutionairies. Even the previous president spoke frequently of maintaining the jihad against Western Ideals to the Iranian people and he was considered not merely a moderate but a reformer. The Iranians are thought to be a decade away from the bomb without setbacks- but they have had a lot of setbacks in the past and it could be a long while before they get there. The big issue is the so called dirty bomb- plutonium or uranium dispersed by a conventional explosive. Would the Democrats- much the less the Europeans- allow the bombing of Tehran because some terrorist group exploded one of these in Rome or New York? All Tehran would have to do is find somebody from Palestine or Lebanon to pull the trigger and there would be no way that Tehran would be held responsible.
it should also be remembered that Iran IS a democracy. the issue is that the religious authorities maintain control over the process and participants via one method or another.


I think the only reason one would step up to defend a religious supremacy is because the supremacy in question isn't Christian. While I have nothing again Christians and consider myself one, I don't want religion owning government and do not believe that sanity is tied to allowing it regardless of the religion involved.

And I agree with you 4,000 percent. Hamas would love to bomb Israel no matter if it came down to a win, lose or draw proposition.

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(in reply to maz123)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Obama's message to Iran - 3/22/2009 10:04:23 AM   
Crush


Posts: 1031
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53
=snip=

Two points. Just because the supreme leader is religious, it doesn't mean there are no moderates in Iran. The second point is even the zealots wouldn't risk a nuclear war they know they would lose.


Actually, they might, since they'd have those 72 white grapes/virgins waiting for them.   Don't put anything past what a religious zealot would do in the name of their religion and in their belief system.  Too many examples in history show that they'd do whatever, including sacrificing their people and themselves.



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(in reply to Politesub53)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Obama's message to Iran - 3/22/2009 10:17:44 AM   
variation30


Posts: 1190
Joined: 12/1/2007
From: Alabama
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quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

It will allow Iran more time to build nuclear weapons that can reach Israel 


none of my business.


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Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Obama's message to Iran - 3/22/2009 10:21:33 AM   
variation30


Posts: 1190
Joined: 12/1/2007
From: Alabama
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quote:

ORIGINAL: KaineD

Is there evidence Iran is building nukes?  Would they be stupid enough to try and nuke Israel?

Anyway, Iran's supreme leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei responds to Obama and has demanded concrete policy changes from the US as the price for new relations between the two states.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/7956504.stm

Also, Iranian civilian views on Obama's reaching out.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/7954686.stm


let's be serious...I hardly think two reactions adequately sum up the reaction to this video.

and this is also little more than sugary ass kissing...which is most of diplomacy so whatever.

but in the end I don't care. if those people are calmed by the petty validation this video offered, great.


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Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Obama's message to Iran - 3/22/2009 10:31:45 AM   
variation30


Posts: 1190
Joined: 12/1/2007
From: Alabama
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quote:

ORIGINAL: StrangerThan

You're asking if a country with a religious supreme leader, whose president has an expressed desire to both annihilate Israel and pave the way for the coming of the Twelfth Imam, if they'd be stupid enough to bomb their most hated enemy.

Gotcha


to be perfectly honest, I don't think you have to worry about him. he's a leader, he has privileges, he has things to lose. it's the mindless masses you have to worry about.


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Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Obama's message to Iran - 3/22/2009 10:42:59 AM   
DomImus


Posts: 2004
Joined: 3/17/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse
It will allow Iran more time to build nuclear weapons that can reach Israel.


I'm struggling to understand why nuking Israel would be such a bad idea.

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Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Obama's message to Iran - 3/22/2009 11:10:32 AM   
KaineD


Posts: 497
Joined: 2/14/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomImus

quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse
It will allow Iran more time to build nuclear weapons that can reach Israel.


I'm struggling to understand why nuking Israel would be such a bad idea.



How about all of the dead innocent people?

(in reply to DomImus)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Obama's message to Iran - 3/22/2009 1:10:51 PM   
corysub


Posts: 1492
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: maz123

What we might consider moderate the Iranian religious police consider to be counter revolutionairies. Even the previous president spoke frequently of maintaining the jihad against Western Ideals to the Iranian people and he was considered not merely a moderate but a reformer. The Iranians are thought to be a decade away from the bomb without setbacks- but they have had a lot of setbacks in the past and it could be a long while before they get there. The big issue is the so called dirty bomb- plutonium or uranium dispersed by a conventional explosive. Would the Democrats- much the less the Europeans- allow the bombing of Tehran because some terrorist group exploded one of these in Rome or New York? All Tehran would have to do is find somebody from Palestine or Lebanon to pull the trigger and there would be no way that Tehran would be held responsible.
it should also be remembered that Iran IS a democracy. the issue is that the religious authorities maintain control over the process and participants via one method or another.


You raise some very valid points.  The one thing that concerns me are all these unamed so called "experts' who say that Iran is years away from devloping a bomb.  Yet, when we obliterated the Iraqi army in a a couple of weeks and Libya got a call to rejoin the world and give up their nuclear program everyone was "astonished" at just how far along they were in their program.  Don't forget...the Iranians are not building these facilities with just some documents from a Pakistan traitor...they have very experienced Russian scientists and engineers working on and supporting this program.  You know, I wouldn't be surprised if the Iranians at this moment in time might not be ahead of us in having the actual manpower skill sets necessary to build a nuclear plant, assumming the Sierra Club and Al Gore and his "global warming" drones don't tie up construction up for a decade!

(in reply to maz123)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Obama's message to Iran - 3/22/2009 8:52:15 PM   
ThatDamnedPanda


Posts: 6060
Joined: 1/26/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: KaineD

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomImus

quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse
It will allow Iran more time to build nuclear weapons that can reach Israel.


I'm struggling to understand why nuking Israel would be such a bad idea.



How about all of the dead innocent people?



Well, other than that. I mean, you put that aside, there's really no problem.



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(in reply to KaineD)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Obama's message to Iran - 3/28/2009 2:14:30 AM   
MasterShake69


Posts: 752
Joined: 11/30/2005
Status: offline
In Iran they really steal elections to prevent democracy from occurring.  Its not some campaign slogan that the democrats use.  Take a look at how Mahmoud Ahmadinejad achieved power in Iran???
Just so you know about the people you want peace with.  They are to be trusted and will never betray your trust.

http://saipa.us/pbs-ap.html

U.S. Media Shuts Its Eyes Again As Journalist Exposes True Nature of Islamic Republic Regime.

By Alireza Sabouri

Near the end of 2003, London-based Channel 4 aired the controversial documentary "Forbidden Iran" presented by the international news magazine Frontline. The film includes a harrowing report from inside Iran, where, a Canadian reporter, Jane Kokan, risks her life to secretly film shocking evidence of a government sponsored reign of terror. In "Forbidden Iran" Kokan escapes the constant surveillance of the Iranian authorities to record exclusive interviews detailing the systematic torture and execution of students opposed to the Islamic Republic regime. The documentary was graphic enough to contain some horrific scenes of stoning, eye-poking and dismembering of human limbs. This is the story which a brave Zahra Kazemi, a Canadian journalist of Iranian descent, was working on when she was captured, tortured and murdered by the Islamic Republic regime.

http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/hrrpt/2005/61688.htm

In 2003 an Iranian-Canadian photographer, Zahra Kazemi, died in custody after being arrested for taking photographs at Evin prison in Tehran. After initially claiming that she died following a stroke, the government admitted that she died as a result of a blow to the head. In July 2004 a court acquitted an intelligence ministry official accused of her death. In December 2004 the Kazemi family protested the failure of the court to convict anyone and requested a criminal investigation, which led to a May 16 appeals court hearing. After the family protested the judge's decision to close the hearing to the public, the judge ended the session. When it reopened on July 25, the judge banned foreign observers, rejected the appeal, upheld the 2004 judgment that Kazemi's death had been accidental, and ruled that the court was not in a position to reopen the case. The court did not release the hearing's dossier.
On November 23, the judiciary released its verdict on the Kazemi case, confirming that the intelligence agent originally charged was not guilty and expressing that there were "shortcomings in the investigation." The judiciary stated that the case was being transferred to another court for further investigation. The judiciary spokesman said the case was not closed and further examination was needed, including reviewing potential suspects, but indicated no timeframe for the investigation. The Kazemi lawyers charged that someone from the judiciary, not the intelligence ministry, was responsible for her death. At year's end there had been no further action.

http://www.nysun.com/foreign/iran-death-judge-lands-un-seat-on-human-rights/34875/

Iran Death Judge Lands U.N. Seat On Human Rights By ELI LAKE, Staff Reporter of the Sun | June 22, 2006
WASHINGTON - Iran's delegation to the U.N. Human Rights Council faces being isolated by the envoys of free nations this week after it emerged that its leader is one of Iran's most notorious censors and prosecutors of dissidents who the Canadians hold responsible for acquitting those who raped and murdered one of their female citizens.,,,,

,,,,
"Most of the Iranians evaluate this as a show of power from Supreme leader Ayatollah Khamenei. Khamenei is saying, 'Okay, I can arrest anyone I want and the world cannot do anything," he said. Mr. Fakhravar yesterday said Iran had "made a fool of the rest of the world" by sending Mr. Mortazavi to Geneva. He added, "If the world wants to show to Iran that they are genuinely committed to human rights they ought to arrest him at least for the murder of Zahra Kazemi."


http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article5942525.ece?token=null&offset=12&page=2

Nor would it forget the 1988 shooting down of an Iranian passenger plane by a US warship in which all 290 people aboard were killed.

Some how Iran forgot about its attack on a US navy ship and a few minutes later sends a civilian aircraft filled with women and children straight towards the same US Navy ship.  Then they accuse the US of killing civilians. 



(in reply to ThatDamnedPanda)
Profile   Post #: 30
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