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RE: The appearances of pretensiousness - - 3/14/2009 10:49:49 AM

CreativeDominant

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I think kallisto and Michael both had good points. So many people think pretentious behavior only kicks in when you are trying to be more than what you are but to me, any time you try to be less than what you are whether it be to fit in or for a less-savory motive, than that is pretentious too.

I am who I am and what I am and since I have not allowed myself to be stuck at a certain point...never learning anything else about my profession or my interests...I have no want for pretension. I like people I can learn from and if I act as if I know it all already, then I never will learn. I like people who come to me to be taught something and if I deliberately set myself up as not only knowing more about a particular subject but as disdainful of their lack of knowledge, then I cannot teach/share for they are no longer interested in listening. In either case, I've made myself appear to be an ass and have caught myself off from something valuable.

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RE: The appearances of pretensiousness - - 3/14/2009 11:11:12 AM

Jeptha

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

quote:

ORIGINAL: kiwisub12
What do you hid from others because you are concerned about pretensiousness, and what are your reasons?

Well, I used to be in the Beatles, but I don't talk about that much anymore because once I mention it that's all anyone wants to talk about. And that was, like, so-o-o-o-o 40 years ago.

Exactly. I'm old enough to have done a lot of stuff, but it's boring to talk about yourself endlessly, especially in the past tense.

I learned that hanging around people who were younger than me; it's much better to keep them talking about what they'd like to do than to appear to have that attitude of "been there, done that"...(even if that isn't the intention, sometimes it's the effect.)

I also have a habit of thinking tangentially, and I can get pretty esoteric, but I try to keep that fairly reigned in.

As far as vocabulary goes, there's an old saying "don't use a complex word when a simple one will do." Occasionally I'll follow that adage, but other times, if a word pops into my head I'll just go with it. Sometimes I'm not even sure of the exact meaning, but since my mental rolodex popped it up, I go with it provisionally and determine to look it up later to check if I'm understanding it correctly.

Occasionally I just write the word in and forget that last step (looking it up to see if it fits) and find out that it isn't quite right. But words are there to be enjoyed and played with, too, so fuck it. I'll fix it in the second draft, if there ever is one.

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RE: The appearances of pretensiousness - - 3/14/2009 11:54:06 AM

DesFIP

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Pretentiousness requires intent IMO. Intent to show off by doing something that doesn't come naturally to you. If you are a poetry fan, then saying to someone "Let me read you these lines, they really got to me" isn't pretentious. If you are trying to appear more worldly, well read, etc than you really are, that's when the pretentiousness comes in.

I write formally and speak that way also. It isn't done to impress, it just naturally is how I speak and write. If I had a word of the day calendar and used the word when I normally wouldn't, in order to make others think I had a better vocabulary than I do, that would be pretentious.

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RE: The appearances of pretensiousness - - 3/14/2009 12:10:32 PM

Andalusite

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I think it's perfectly acceptable to read poetry because you think your date will enjoy it, or because you feel like it's hard to find the right words to express how you feel! You don't necessarily need to read poetry on your own, or the same kind of thing, in order for it to be sweet. If you *don't* actually love or care about them, then I can see how it would be misleading. It's like cooking something special, or giving them a little present you know they like - it's a romantic gesture. I can see how reading it aloud, especially if you aren't used to it, could feel a little awkward or even pretentious the first time or two, especially if you try to get into the spirit of it and read with feeling.

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RE: The appearances of pretensiousness - - 3/14/2009 12:46:37 PM

LuckyAlbatross

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Oh I've got enough of a balance to not have to worry about it. My predilection for all things pop culture tends to eliminate any pretentiousness people might glean from my high culture interests.

I AM a pretentious snob in plenty of ways, it's just people presume it in certain areas and not in others so they form their opinions based on that.

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RE: The appearances of pretensiousness - - 3/14/2009 3:13:40 PM

whiteslavebitch

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I often "dumb down" my vocabulary with others because I don't want to sound "uppity". But that has a basis in my youth when I got called on it by my peers who thought I was being pretentious when I wasn't trying to be.

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RE: The appearances of pretensiousness - - 3/14/2009 5:21:04 PM

kiwisub12

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I understand ,WSB - i use the words i know- and occasionally i have people looking at me like a tree full of owls (00). But then i have done so much reading that words come naturally to me. When Sir wants to get my goat, he accuses me of being pretentious - but it would be pretentious in reverse for me to dumb down my vocabulary.

I just got back from the hospital, and the books that Sir took with him are poetry - classic and cowboy poetry. He read me a couple of cowboy poems which tend towards the humerous, and a classic poem which reminded him so much of his grandmother it bought him to tears. It stirred an emotion in him, which would be the best definition of good poetry

.

ps - i do know how to spell - but sometimes brain farts are involved.(oops).

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Post #: 27

RE: The appearances of pretensiousness - - 3/15/2009 6:22:50 AM

Kana

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I rarely dumb things down.
I would rather not say something than to say it improperly or make concessions...
Plus there is a tendency in our culture (IMHO) to lower things to the minimal possible denominator
Instead of raising the bar high and expecting people to strive to achieve their potential

When I do dumb things down
(With the freaking counterclerk who can't do his job for instance)
It's pretty much so I can get what I want with a minimum of fuss
It's certainly not because I give a shit about what people think of me
I'm me
For better or worse, here I am
And I stopped what others care about me a long time ago.
I stay true to who I am
and how they react is their problem.

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RE: The appearances of pretensiousness - - 3/15/2009 6:40:45 AM

WinsomeDefiance

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I think the difference between assuming someone is being pretentious, and accepting them for where they are at, is all about understanding where the insecurities come from. My mother was a highschool drop-out. Her spelling was deplorable. She had her first child (me) when she was 17. My father was a career military officer in the Air Force and formerly educated, as were most of their friends. My mother was always using big words, usually incorrectly. When I was younger, I thought she was being pretentious. When I learned more about her, and the struggles she faced in her life, I understood better why she felt the need to impress. Truthfully, my 4'10" spitfire of a mother was pretty impressive without her misappropriated and much abused vocabulary. I don't really worry too much if someone is being pretentious. Unless that is all the person is about. I just call those people, liars.

WinD

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RE: The appearances of pretensiousness - - 3/15/2009 6:55:07 AM

RedMagic1

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I was talking with a violinist a couple months ago. He's a professor now, and he used to be a concertmaster of a famous orchestra. Pretty skilled.

I told him that I've attended quite a few presentations on mathematics, by mathematicians... and I had noticed something. People who were really good would talk, and I would follow them for a while, and eventually get lost. But the superstars, top of the top, would give talks where I followed everything from start to finish. It was as though they understood the field so well, they didn't need big words to explain it. He nodded vigorously, and said, "I understand exactly what you mean." Totally different field, and he saw the same thing happening.

I don't see using everyday words as "dumbing things down." It requires more skill (and creativity) to communicate complex ideas using a high school vocabulary than a post-graduate vocabulary. A big part of the reason I am more active here than, say, FL, is that posters here try to communicate using normal words and common sense, while on some other message boards, it seems like a competition for who can sound the most BDSM-intellectual. And that might not be pretentious, but it sure is divorced from reality.

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RE: The appearances of pretensiousness - - 3/15/2009 8:42:54 AM

catize

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quote:

I don't see using everyday words as "dumbing things down." It requires more skill (and creativity) to communicate complex ideas using a high school vocabulary than a post-graduate vocabulary.

Yes! When I take my car to the mechanic, I don’t want to hear “The marginator relay cuplar valve.” ( I made that up, btw!)
What I understand, and appreciate is “The thingy that does this needs replaced. It will cost you $115.”

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RE: The appearances of pretensiousness - - 3/15/2009 8:54:37 AM

Lordandmaster

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As long as you realize that this is EXACTLY how they rob you blind.

If they say you need to replace the marginator relay cuplar valve (or whatever), ask them, without any shame or embarassment, "What is the marginator relay cuplar valve?" See if they can explain it--that should be revealing. If you're not sure about what to do after their explanation, Google it and see what you can find out. Don't let them pressure you.

quote:

ORIGINAL: catize

Yes! When I take my car to the mechanic, I don’t want to hear “The marginator relay cuplar valve.” ( I made that up, btw!)
What I understand, and appreciate is “The thingy that does this needs replaced. It will cost you $115.”

(in reply to catize)

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RE: The appearances of pretensiousness - - 3/15/2009 8:57:28 AM

Lynnxz

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

As long as you realize that this is EXACTLY how they rob you blind.

If they say you need to replace the marginator relay cuplar valve (or whatever), ask them, without any shame or embarassment, "What is the marginator relay cuplar valve?" See if they can explain it--that should be revealing. If you're not sure about what to do after their explanation, Google it and see what you can find out. Don't let them pressure you.

Quoted for truth. If you don't have time to google it, at least call a friend who's knowledgeable about cars, and ask if the part and price makes sense.

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RE: The appearances of pretensiousness - - 3/15/2009 8:57:34 AM

agirl

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quote:

ORIGINAL: catize

quote:

I don't see using everyday words as "dumbing things down." It requires more skill (and creativity) to communicate complex ideas using a high school vocabulary than a post-graduate vocabulary.

Yes! When I take my car to the mechanic, I don’t want to hear “The marginator relay cuplar valve.” ( I made that up, btw!)
What I understand, and appreciate is “The thingy that does this needs replaced. It will cost you $115.”

Being blinded by science because that's someone's way of communicating,and usual for them, isn't the same as someone TRYING to impress by doing so. The best writers cut out words rather than fatten their sentences with them. It's comforting to think that otherr people aren't *getting you* because they aren't up to par, and a lot less comforting to realise that you're being a crap communicator.

agirl

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RE: The appearances of pretensiousness - - 3/15/2009 4:44:52 PM

kiwisub12

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I work in the medical field, and frequently have to follow the doctor and explain what he/she just said to people. You get immursed in medical lingo and forget that not everyone knows what the hell you just said.
I'll never forget how for the first time in nursing school, i had to ask a man (i was 18 and just out of a convent boarding school) if he had pooped. First, i asked him if his bowels had moved - didn't understand that, then asked him if he had had a bowel movement (hoping against hope!), and finally just had to ask him if he had had a shit today. Lowest common demominator.

I wasn't trying to be pretentious - i was trying to be professional!!!!!
It did take a wee while, but eventually i could judge vocabulary level from casual conversation - which made asking intimate questions way easier.

additional thought - when i first met Sir, he asked me what my limits were. Couldn't say because we had no common language at that stage to even discuss it. There has to be a mutual language to communicate.

< Message edited by kiwisub12 -- 3/15/2009 4:46:52 PM >

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RE: The appearances of pretensiousness - - 3/15/2009 4:58:13 PM

Arpig

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quote:

I guess this may sound naive, but I'm not concerned about whether other people will find me pretentious.

I think LaM pretty much summed it up right.

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RE: The appearances of pretensiousness - - 3/15/2009 5:00:14 PM

DavanKael

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I'm me. I don't desire to wear masks (Of the metaphorical sort) in close relationsips. If someone wishes to be with me for who I am and I am amenable, dandy. If not, move along.
Davan

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RE: The appearances of pretensiousness - - 3/15/2009 5:01:46 PM

Prinsexx

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kiwisub12

What do you hid from others because you are concerned about pretensiousness, and what are your reasons?

I was born shit poor. A great feal of my formative life was spent wanting to be like others. Abd indeed when I finally made it to University I found people just like me, real, and at that point I decided I didn't have to pretend to be anyone. I just needed to be really me and my abilities vould get me anywhere I wanted.
There is stuff I do that maybe others find pretentious. I am an annoying extrovert intutive...if you ask me how I know stuff I just say I do. Indeed at work they call me the fount of all knowledge. It's a title I love actualy.
So sorry: definitely not into dumbing myself down as it took me too long to get the knowledge and it's an on-going life process.
Too bad for those who can't keep up.
The only thing I apologise for is being s dirty little slut and a bit of a whore etc etc. Which I ger aptly punished for anyway.
And look I really can spot pretentiousness in others... but you know? They maybe they need that, maybe they need whatever they need to get through so it's aok by me. Can spot dumbing down also (and its corollary playing-poor) and it's the dumbing down I don't do, can't stand...

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RE: The appearances of pretensiousness - - 3/15/2009 5:19:32 PM

masterlink65

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i dont see how the word fits into any of this. how is reading poetry pretentious? wrong word usage

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RE: The appearances of pretensiousness - - 3/15/2009 8:09:28 PM

Whiplashsmile4

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I think it's wrong to dumb ourselves down to others to fit into cold stereotype notions of others. Be this a precieved notion or an actual notion of another person.

Sooner or later our trueselves will reveal itselt. Complete with flaws and faults.

The thing is how willing are two people to actually get to know one another, to what levels, the building of understanding of one another.

If two people don't take the time to truely explore one another, and are busy in trying to dumb themselves down. It truely is self defeating use of time and energy.

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Post #: 40

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