RE: Ron Paul Introduces Bill to Audit the Federal Reserve! (Full Version)

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Thunderbird56 -> RE: Ron Paul Introduces Bill to Audit the Federal Reserve! (3/13/2009 8:23:23 PM)

Thank God for Dr. Ron Paul! He's virtually a lone voice on Capitol Hill speaking reason, common sense and fiscal responsibility. His only soul-mate in the private sector major media is ABC-TV's John Stossel. His 20/20 special "Bailouts and Bull" tonight cut the knees out from under some idiot politicians!




MrRodgers -> RE: Ron Paul Introduces Bill to Audit the Federal Reserve! (3/13/2009 9:38:34 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie

quote:

ORIGINAL: kinkbound

He also says that the FR is buying up assets on the QT, and refuses transparency.

HR 1207


The more I watch our leaders....the more I like Ron Paul.

Kinkroids where have you been ? I wrote that uncle Frederick Roosevelt, Rothchild, Warburg, Rockefeller et al, went off shore under false name and drew up the charter for the fed. They immediately gave it to their man in the senate and 'scared' the politicians into passing it as law. Wilson's (dem pres.) right hand man was an old English banker and convinced him to sign it. 

Following that, it is very possible and it appears in fact that the 16th amend. (income tax) was never passed. (needed to pay our 'rent' for the privilege of using 'their' currency) Again the man in charge had worked for the bankers and married a Rockefeller I believe. He was shown to have misreported I think Kentucky's (27-0 ? yeaa right) vote and reported on Minn. I think, as voting in favor, having never received a report on its vote for the amend.

I wish Paul luck but if it is not acted upon soon I have at least slight reason to fear for him. A congressman named I think McFadden after the crash of 29 submitted articles of impeachment of the federal reserve board chairman, and the sytem's bank pres. Some say 3rd time the charm...poisoned at a political party/dinner/fund-raiser.

I don't have a whole lotta hope but the irony is with all of my knowledge on the subject, I thought it just might be a dem politico and a repub pres. that would do this with the pres. shooting something like this down. Now we get a real chance to see if Obama is up to the task. I am thinking it's 50/50 he will playball and veto this bill. What say you ?




pahunkboy -> RE: Ron Paul Introduces Bill to Audit the Federal Reserve! (3/26/2009 6:35:34 PM)

http://dprogram.net/2009/03/26/missouri-state-police-orders-halt-to-miac-report-distribution/


Someone posted Ron Paul people were part of a report as being "dangerous".   Interesting update.





Arpig -> RE: Ron Paul Introduces Bill to Audit the Federal Reserve! (3/26/2009 8:12:44 PM)

Ron Paul is somewhat of a "voice in the wilderness". Sort of a modern day Cassandra




Honsoku -> RE: Ron Paul Introduces Bill to Audit the Federal Reserve! (3/26/2009 8:43:52 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: subfever

Here's Dr. Paul's statement, introducing the bill:

Madam Speaker, I rise to introduce the Federal Reserve Transparency Act. Throughout its nearly 100-year history, the Federal Reserve has presided over the near-complete destruction of the United States dollar. Since 1913 the dollar has lost over 95% of its purchasing power, aided and abetted by the Federal Reserve's loose monetary policy. How long will we as a Congress stand idly by while hard-working Americans see their savings eaten away by inflation? Only big-spending politicians and politically favored bankers benefit from inflation.


You mean that a currencies inflates? Stop the presses! This is only the same deal that almost every single modern economy has. There are reasons almost no one still uses a backed currency.

quote:

Serious discussion of proposals to oversee the Federal Reserve is long overdue. I have been a longtime proponent of more effective oversight and auditing of the Fed, but I was far from the first Congressman to advocate these types of proposals. Esteemed former members of the Banking Committee such as Chairmen Wright Patman and Henry B. Gonzales were outspoken critics of the Fed and its lack of transparency.


The Federal Reserve is not a government agency.

quote:

Since its inception, the Federal Reserve has always operated in the shadows, without sufficient scrutiny or oversight of its operations. While the conventional excuse is that this is intended to reduce the Fed's susceptibility to political pressures, the reality is that the Fed acts as a foil for the government. Whenever you question the Fed about the strength of the dollar, they will refer you to the Treasury, and vice versa. The Federal Reserve has, on the one hand, many of the privileges of government agencies, while retaining benefits of private organizations, such as being insulated from Freedom of Information Act requests.


"Sufficient" is a matter of opinion. You can measure the strength of the dollar by comparing it against other currencies. Considering the general level of education on economic and monetary policy present in this country, having insulation from public pressure is a good thing.

quote:

The Federal Reserve can enter into agreements with foreign central banks and foreign governments, and the GAO is prohibited from auditing or even seeing these agreements. Why should a government-established agency, whose police force has federal law enforcement powers, and whose notes have legal tender status in this country, be allowed to enter into agreements with foreign powers and foreign banking institutions with no oversight? Particularly when hundreds of billions of dollars of currency swaps have been announced and implemented, the Fed's negotiations with the European Central Bank, the Bank of International Settlements, and other institutions should face increased scrutiny, most especially because of their significant effect on foreign policy. If the State Department were able to do this, it would be characterized as a rogue agency and brought to heel, and if a private individual did this he might face prosecution under the Logan Act, yet the Fed avoids both fates.


See prior statement: The Federal Reserve is not a government agency (nor is it a private individual).

quote:

More importantly, the Fed's funding facilities and its agreements with the Treasury should be reviewed. The Treasury's supplementary financing accounts that fund Fed facilities allow the Treasury to funnel money to Wall Street without GAO or Congressional oversight. Additional funding facilities, such as the Primary Dealer Credit Facility and the Term Securities Lending Facility, allow the Fed to keep financial asset prices artificially inflated and subsidize poorly performing financial firms.


This is more snake-oil. Here he is talking about the Fed's ability to be a "lender of last resort".

quote:

The Federal Reserve Transparency Act would eliminate restrictions on GAO audits of the Federal Reserve and open Fed operations to enhanced scrutiny. We hear officials constantly lauding the benefits of transparency and especially bemoaning the opacity of the Fed, its monetary policy, and its funding facilities. By opening all Fed operations to a GAO audit and calling for such an audit to be completed by the end of 2010, the Federal Reserve Transparency Act would achieve much-needed transparency of the Federal Reserve.


And seriously undermine the Reserve's ability to function.

quote:


I urge my colleagues to support this bill.



Keep in mind that Ron Paul wants to go back to having a backed currency. He is essentially a snake-oil salesman. He is very good at sounding good, but under scrutiny what he says falls apart.




spragueA -> RE: Ron Paul Introduces Bill to Audit the Federal Reserve! (3/26/2009 9:21:09 PM)

Very interesting thread!

I'm happy and relieved to see that more and more of  "We the people" are finally waking up to the fleecing of America. We have slumbered waaay to long!

Though I am a proud Citizen of the USA, I am really weary of the sheep led to slaughter mentality that so many of us has bought into.

I hope to see this thread continue (like the 'last one to post' thread) because it is informative and beneficial to our country no matter age, gender, race, party or creed.

Every generation needs a new revolution - Thomas Jefferson

http://thinkexist.com/quotation/every_generation_needs_a_new_revolution/225819.html

I pray we all see the bigger picture of what is really taking place in the world's monitary system before it all goes to hell in a handbag.

http://bigpicture.typepad.com/comments/2006/01/gold_the_wizard.html

Regards, ~Miss Mafia




OrionTheWolf -> RE: Ron Paul Introduces Bill to Audit the Federal Reserve! (3/27/2009 7:28:37 AM)

Other than opinion on each thing, I do not see where you backed your assertions. So a snake oil salesman, does so by making assertions that have no basis in fact. Is that what you have done?

Do you see a good reason why the Federal Reserve should not be audited?


quote:

ORIGINAL: Honsoku
Keep in mind that Ron Paul wants to go back to having a backed currency. He is essentially a snake-oil salesman. He is very good at sounding good, but under scrutiny what he says falls apart.




HorseMann -> RE: Ron Paul Introduces Bill to Audit the Federal Reserve! (3/27/2009 8:26:53 AM)

quote:

The Federal Reserve is not a government agency.


Who claimed that it is?






ThatDamnedPanda -> RE: Ron Paul Introduces Bill to Audit the Federal Reserve! (3/27/2009 8:47:40 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Honsoku

Keep in mind that Ron Paul wants to go back to having a backed currency. He is essentially a snake-oil salesman. He is very good at sounding good, but under scrutiny what he says falls apart.


I see Paul pretty much the same way. During last year's presidential campaign, when the media fell in love with him for a couple of weeks and had him plastered all over the TV set, I got pretty interested in him too. I heard a lot of very sensible, intriguing soundbites. So when they started putting him up front on the Sunday morning chatter shows, I made it a point to watch.

And yeah, he sounds like the second coming of Thomas Jefferson for about the first 5 minutes. Then it all starts to slowly unravel. By the end of the 20-minute segment, he just sounds like an idealistic, somewhat scatterbrained nut.

However. Even a total moron makes a good point once in a while, and if someone throws out as many ideas as Ron Paul does, every now and then one of them is going to be a damned good one. And his observation about the problems with the Fed are, for the most part, pretty darned good. His ideas on how to fix it... well, maybe could use a little tweaking.

I think in order to get the maximum value out of Paul, it's important to recognize his strengths and his weaknesses - he seems to have an uncanny ability to drill down into the heart of an issue and find the fundamental reason that something's not working; he just isn't very good at crafting practical solutions for how to fix it. I think he's a very valuable voice, you just need to know which things are worth listening to and which things aren't. If I'm down in a coal mine, he's the guy I want for the canary. But not the guy I want to lead me out if something goes wrong.




DomKen -> RE: Ron Paul Introduces Bill to Audit the Federal Reserve! (3/27/2009 10:03:16 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

Other than opinion on each thing, I do not see where you backed your assertions. So a snake oil salesman, does so by making assertions that have no basis in fact. Is that what you have done?

Do you see a good reason why the Federal Reserve should not be audited?


quote:

ORIGINAL: Honsoku
Keep in mind that Ron Paul wants to go back to having a backed currency. He is essentially a snake-oil salesman. He is very good at sounding good, but under scrutiny what he says falls apart.


The fact is the Federal Reserve system is heavily audited already. As near as I can figure out from actually reading what Paul has introduced he wants a massively intrusive audit looking into areas, such as the setting of monetary policy, which are beyond the normal bounds of financial auditing. IOW it strongly appears that he is trying to politicize monetary policy decisions, which is one of the things the Federal Reserve System is meant to prevent.




OrionTheWolf -> RE: Ron Paul Introduces Bill to Audit the Federal Reserve! (3/27/2009 10:28:38 AM)

So could you point me to where the report from the GAO is?

Monetary policy decisions are already politicized. Since that is the case all of it should be transparent .

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
The fact is the Federal Reserve system is heavily audited already. As near as I can figure out from actually reading what Paul has introduced he wants a massively intrusive audit looking into areas, such as the setting of monetary policy, which are beyond the normal bounds of financial auditing. IOW it strongly appears that he is trying to politicize monetary policy decisions, which is one of the things the Federal Reserve System is meant to prevent.




Honsoku -> RE: Ron Paul Introduces Bill to Audit the Federal Reserve! (3/27/2009 11:46:30 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

Other than opinion on each thing, I do not see where you backed your assertions. So a snake oil salesman, does so by making assertions that have no basis in fact. Is that what you have done?

Do you see a good reason why the Federal Reserve should not be audited?


Yes, several;

1: For the same reason we don't have live feeds in cabinet meetings or shine public scrutiny on everything that the CIA does. Too much transparency on the decision making process leads to information that will harm others being released. We give the Reserve leeway so they can act quickly if needed and avoid pressure from people looking for political gain.

2: Any results from such an audit would undoubtedly be acted upon by people who have nary a clue about the Federal Reserve's role in the economy nor how the economy functions (or be pressured by such people). At best, they might be acted on by people who listen to Ron Paul [;)]

3: Opaqueness keeps the markets from trying to pre-guess the Fed and provides a backstop against endless prediction. Without that back stop, the markets would try to infer more and more from less and less information. This leads to increased volatility as those predictions become less and less reliable.

4: Where was the call to audit the Reserve when everything was doing great? What is the audit looking for? This smacks of a witch hunt and/or hobby horse riding. In fairness, Ron Paul fronts a bill to abolish the Reserve every congress (yet he never gets any cosponsors...), so for him it's a hobby horse.

quote:

ORIGINAL: HorseMann
quote:

The Federal Reserve is not a government agency.

Who claimed that it is?


It was implied. He made several statements about how if the reserve was a government agency we would be doing "X". But since it isn't a government agency, the point moot.





DomKen -> RE: Ron Paul Introduces Bill to Audit the Federal Reserve! (3/27/2009 11:49:33 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

So could you point me to where the report from the GAO is?

Monetary policy decisions are already politicized. Since that is the case all of it should be transparent .

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
The fact is the Federal Reserve system is heavily audited already. As near as I can figure out from actually reading what Paul has introduced he wants a massively intrusive audit looking into areas, such as the setting of monetary policy, which are beyond the normal bounds of financial auditing. IOW it strongly appears that he is trying to politicize monetary policy decisions, which is one of the things the Federal Reserve System is meant to prevent.


From 2007:
http://www.federalreserve.gov/boarddocs/rptcongress/annual07/sec6/c5.htm

Look for more recent Federal Reserve annual reports for newer audits.




OrionTheWolf -> RE: Ron Paul Introduces Bill to Audit the Federal Reserve! (3/27/2009 11:55:18 AM)

Muchos Gracias!




Honsoku -> RE: Ron Paul Introduces Bill to Audit the Federal Reserve! (3/27/2009 11:56:02 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

So could you point me to where the report from the GAO is?

Monetary policy decisions are already politicized. Since that is the case all of it should be transparent .


Lots of reports.




OrionTheWolf -> RE: Ron Paul Introduces Bill to Audit the Federal Reserve! (3/27/2009 12:00:49 PM)

Interesting, it seems the GOA had indications and concerns in Feb 2007 concerning the Fed and banking system overal, concerning some investments.

http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d07253.pdf




DomKen -> RE: Ron Paul Introduces Bill to Audit the Federal Reserve! (3/27/2009 12:10:50 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

Interesting, it seems the GOA had indications and concerns in Feb 2007 concerning the Fed and banking system overal, concerning some investments.

http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d07253.pdf

I started hearing rumblings about the mortgage bubble in 2007 so its not surprising that GAO auditers saw it that early. It's too bad no body in power really paid attention.




hlen5 -> RE: Ron Paul Introduces Bill to Audit the Federal Reserve! (3/27/2009 12:21:37 PM)

Reading through this thread makes me wonder about the possible longevity of Ron Paul.




kittinSol -> RE: Ron Paul Introduces Bill to Audit the Federal Reserve! (3/27/2009 12:23:32 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: hlen5

Reading through this thread makes me wonder about the possible longevity of Ron Paul.


Who knows what they can do nowadays, with cryogenization and stem cell research... the old mummy could still be around in decades [X(] .  




ThatDamnedPanda -> RE: Ron Paul Introduces Bill to Audit the Federal Reserve! (3/27/2009 12:25:23 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: hlen5

Reading through this thread makes me wonder about the possible longevity of Ron Paul.


If, the next time I board an airplane, i see him, Al Franken, and Nancy Pelosi.... I'm getting off.




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