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RE: Pity the fool - 3/12/2009 11:30:26 PM

MissMorrigan

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The term 'robust response' needs to be clarified.

I'm sure people that have dialled 999 in terror at the onset of an attack would have appreciated such a robust response which could have prevented serious injury and/or death.

The story posted isn't surprising. Some years back many high/low ranking police officers were exposed attending NF and later, BNP, rallies, the person exposing them was an undercover journalist who recorded meetings/conversations he'd had with members. Just a handful were released from their positions. There followed a lengthy campaign to hire police officers from under-represented areas of the community and judging from the increase in discrimination cases brought against forces across the UK, it's not difficult to see that it prevails despite Jack Straw's statement that the Met is no longer institutionally racist and who yet continues to state that there remain 'pockets of institutional racism'.

Would the media have taken an interest in this case had one of the persons involved not been a high profile football player?

The police service in our country remains substandard in general and racism is just one area among many that continue to cloud any claims of progress made.

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RE: Pity the fool - 3/13/2009 2:46:38 AM

MasterShake69

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then you probably had a very poorly trained security department probably as a result of low wage causing high turnover. There hmmmmmmm what is the word they use for theft????.....shrinkage percentage??? must be very high.

quote:

ORIGINAL: RainydayNE

well i've worked for a retail store (a relatively big one)
worst job ever
but the people i worked with were more concerned with race than anything else
they didn't SAY it so much in plain english around me, for obvious reasons, but yeah =p they DO profile by race, they do every single day.

where i worked, young white kids stole tons of CDs and pokemon/yugi-oh cards while the associates were busy tailing black people. =p a group of white teenaged girls came in and swapped out their shoes =p i alerted a manager but nothing happened to them.
not to say that black people NEVER stole anything, just saying, pleeeeenty of theft went unnoticed because they were making assumptions about certain ethnicities of people that weren't always true.

policies may claim that certain age groups are more likely, managers may teach that, but people DO single you out based on race.

i'm coming out of a store here in town, right, with a whole bunch of other people. TONS of other people, who happen to be white. all i have is a bag with cotton balls. as i'm coming through the little alarms with aaaalll those other people, the alarm goes off, and who gets called back? me =p
nothing but clearly visible cotton balls =p

yeah, but they don't profile by race, right? okies :)

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Post #: 22

RE: Pity the fool - 3/13/2009 8:52:27 AM

thishereboi

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit

I thought of that... but still... even a fake injury with a cast is going to be hard to run with.

Don't be so sure about that. When I was about 20, I had a full leg cast on, thigh to ankle. A security guard chased me and my friend down 4 flights of stairs and we got away. Of course it took smoking a big fat one to get my heart rate back down and my leg hurt like hell, but we did make it out. Never underestimate the power of adreniline and 2 stupid kids.

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Post #: 23

RE: Pity the fool - 3/13/2009 11:31:23 AM

domiguy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterShake69

If you ever worked or know someone who worked at a large department store you would know they profile AGE not RACE.

15-25 year old males in groups are most likely to commit robberies. That’s why they would watch two 19 yearold white male and not a group of a dozen 70 yearold black females. Now someone with a baby carriage and no baby would be watched very closely no matter what age ;)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

No offense, but I can't believe I'm reading what I'm reading.

Well now I can rest easy based upon your conclusions that this was an "age" thang and not about race. lol. Amazing, your keen powers of observation.

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RE: Pity the fool - 3/13/2009 11:38:17 AM

Lockit

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quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit

I thought of that... but still... even a fake injury with a cast is going to be hard to run with.

Don't be so sure about that. When I was about 20, I had a full leg cast on, thigh to ankle. A security guard chased me and my friend down 4 flights of stairs and we got away. Of course it took smoking a big fat one to get my heart rate back down and my leg hurt like hell, but we did make it out. Never underestimate the power of adreniline and 2 stupid kids.

LOL... yes I am getting email stories of bad boy's with cast's!

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RE: Pity the fool - 3/13/2009 11:42:44 AM

Aynne88

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Sadly kittin I can...ugly isn't it?

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

No offense, but I can't believe I'm reading what I'm reading.

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Post #: 26

RE: Pity the fool - 3/13/2009 11:45:40 AM

kittinSol

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I must say, it was a little surreal to read the reaction of the posters trying to rationalise the irrational behaviour of the cops involved - for a minute, I had the horrible feeling they were going to actually justify this

.

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Post #: 27

RE: Pity the fool - 3/13/2009 11:47:34 AM

Aynne88

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I can't imagine defending the indefensible. Nor can I imagine trying to palm it off as an age thing, not a race thing. Bullshit.

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Post #: 28

RE: Pity the fool - 3/13/2009 11:52:42 AM

kittinSol

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Though the fake cast took the biscuit as well.

"Hmmmmmm, I think I'm going to rob a little high street jewellery store. I know

! I'll put on a fake cast on my leg so that I can hide the stolen jewellery in it. I won't attract so much attention, and casts are dead handy for making speedy getaways. Such a cunning plan!"

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Post #: 29

RE: Pity the fool - 3/13/2009 11:54:36 AM

Aynne88

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Oh I agree, I meant both of them. Ridiculous.

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Post #: 30

RE: Pity the fool - 3/13/2009 11:54:56 AM

Lockit

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I moved to a nice area in Colorado and before we bought, we spent a lot of time in the neighborhood. In the first year we got robbed or something eleven times. I did research I learned I should have done before buying and got all the 911 calls... talked to police, the mayor and all sorts of things. I had pages of documents.

Most of all the crime in that area were white males between the ages of 18 and 22.

(side note... I did wonder why the police in this story would do what they did and tried to think what they might be thinking, but in no way condoned it and thought it was a race thing and very stupid.)

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Post #: 31

RE: Pity the fool - 3/13/2009 12:04:11 PM

UPSG

Posts: 331
Joined: 1/22/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit

I thought of that... but still... even a fake injury with a cast is going to be hard to run with.

Don't be so sure about that. When I was about 20, I had a full leg cast on, thigh to ankle. A security guard chased me and my friend down 4 flights of stairs and we got away. Of course it took smoking a big fat one to get my heart rate back down and my leg hurt like hell, but we did make it out. Never underestimate the power of adreniline and 2 stupid kids.

If a cop can't keep up on foot, nor out maneuver, some guy in a cast, save he be a former, still fit SAS specialist, then he really needs to be suspended until he can get up into some relatively decent shape. Do U.K. cops carry mace and or batons? Because if the do, a person in a cast should be at a disadvantage even if the cast is fake, assuming the cops are in arms length on the suspects.

I'll try and find a video I saw a while back on Brazilian special task force cops - talk about studs - they would put most the overweight U.S. cops to shame.

***

And department stores and or stores in general, depending on their location or preferred target customers, do racially profile. Refer to Miss Morrigan's post above on "institutional racism" (e.g. commercial stores, police force, business etc.). There have been "test" studies done on this (i.e. sending one white guy and on black guy of equal dress, educational and personal background into stores).

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Post #: 32

RE: Pity the fool - 3/13/2009 12:23:33 PM

UPSG

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Joined: 1/22/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit

I thought of that... but still... even a fake injury with a cast is going to be hard to run with.

Don't be so sure about that. When I was about 20, I had a full leg cast on, thigh to ankle. A security guard chased me and my friend down 4 flights of stairs and we got away. Of course it took smoking a big fat one to get my heart rate back down and my leg hurt like hell, but we did make it out. Never underestimate the power of adreniline and 2 stupid kids.

I can't find the video where the Brazilian woman was interviewing BOPE members and going with them on training (the studs jogging shirts off, doing Jujitsu, and just generally fit and badass cats). It was a good video.

But I found this video of them in live action. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hPDLGW9gUfQ

(bear in mind the terrain they are moving through and equipment they are carrying = weight and rate of fatigue)

< Message edited by UPSG -- 3/13/2009 12:25:28 PM >

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Post #: 33

RE: Pity the fool - 3/13/2009 12:50:27 PM

UPSG

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Joined: 1/22/2009
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Ok, I can't find that video so I'm going to give up looking for it. But here is a video (and I ran into another that seems to suggest BOPE has helped train U.S. police in urban warfare) where the guy doing the interview and traing with BOPE is a former British SAS member.

I have looked at the video myself except from about a few seconds or a minute of it.

Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-nQ7VuPRTo&feature=related

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Post #: 34

RE: Pity the fool - 3/13/2009 1:30:39 PM

MasterShake69

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Joined: 11/30/2005
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I use to see security keep tabs on teenagers of any race all the time. Sure the 60 yearold black guy with a cane might steal something but its unlikely and was ignored.

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterShake69

If you ever worked or know someone who worked at a large department store you would know they profile AGE not RACE.

15-25 year old males in groups are most likely to commit robberies. That’s why they would watch two 19 yearold white male and not a group of a dozen 70 yearold black females. Now someone with a baby carriage and no baby would be watched very closely no matter what age ;)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

No offense, but I can't believe I'm reading what I'm reading.

Well now I can rest easy based upon your conclusions that this was an "age" thang and not about race. lol. Amazing, your keen powers of observation.

(in reply to domiguy)

Post #: 35

RE: Pity the fool - 3/13/2009 3:16:10 PM

RealityLicks

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Joined: 10/23/2007
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Interesting responses. However, there seems to be some confusion about department stores. These two men were surrounded by five police officers on the pavement outside a jewellers' shop. The shop was closed at the time. From what I've seen on some football sites last night and in the news today, the police have been universally panned for heavy-handedness. The officer who handcuffed the friend and then reversed himself when Victor was identified is apparently lucky not to find himself charged with wrongful arrest. Vic Anichebe is probably left thinking that the tackle that left him needing surgery was less of a pain than this incident, on his own doorstep. He was magnanimous after the first but I hope he's a lot less so in response to the second.

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Post #: 36

RE: Pity the fool - 3/13/2009 9:51:31 PM

MadameMarque

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Joined: 3/19/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterShake69

If you ever worked or know someone who worked at a large department store you would know they profile AGE not RACE.

15-25 year old males in groups are most likely to commit robberies. That’s why they would watch two 19 yearold white male and not a group of a dozen 70 yearold black females. Now someone with a baby carriage and no baby would be watched very closely no matter what age ;)

While I believe you, I also know this: I have shopped by myself, with white friends, and with friends of color, and shopping with someone who's not white is like no other time. Not just retail, but in a grocery store, a drugstore. Yeah, they are under suspicion of not being White. Anyone who thinks all that's over with and history, sad to say, not yet, not yet.

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Post #: 37

RE: Pity the fool - 3/14/2009 10:55:36 AM

UPSG

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Joined: 1/22/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RealityLicks

Interesting responses. However, there seems to be some confusion about department stores. These two men were surrounded by five police officers on the pavement outside a jewellers' shop. The shop was closed at the time. From what I've seen on some football sites last night and in the news today, the police have been universally panned for heavy-handedness. The officer who handcuffed the friend and then reversed himself when Victor was identified is apparently lucky not to find himself charged with wrongful arrest. Vic Anichebe is probably left thinking that the tackle that left him needing surgery was less of a pain than this incident, on his own doorstep. He was magnanimous after the first but I hope he's a lot less so in response to the second.

Good point to remind.

A question just came to mind. Can civil lawsuits be brought against on duty police officer? I wonder if that's possible in either the U.K. or the U.S.

If I remember correctly Frank Jude brought a lawsuit against the Milwaukee police department after his beating but I'm not sure if he brought a civil law suit against the individual cops or not? Of course, most of them were off-duty cops in that case.

(in reply to RealityLicks)

Post #: 38

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