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GOP Splits With Big Business - 3/7/2009 9:54:27 PM

Owner59

Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
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Even the closest, most intimate LTRs can be upset or even end, when finances become an issue.

I think this is great news.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0309/19585.html

"The fight over President Barack Obama’s economic recovery plan shined a light on the growing gap between Big Business and the GOP. While House Republicans voted unanimously against the legislation — twice — the vast majority of major business groups lobbied hard for it.

“There were a lot of good things in there on infrastructure and on tax relief, and a lot of things that were stimulative in our minds, which is why we ultimately supported it and worked really hard with the administration and Congress on getting some of the key provisions for manufacturers included,” said Maureen Davenport, senior vice president for communications for the National Association of Manufacturers."

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

Post #: 1

RE: GOP Splits With Big Business - 3/7/2009 10:01:24 PM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
Status: offline

Glad you are proud to see an announcement illustrating that this Democratic administration is catering and providing Billions for Corporate welfare? "Recovery Plan"? Welfare by any other name is still expensive and insures ongoing failure.

Proud to announce a 'pay-off'. Amazing! Actually, not really - and I can't wait to hear the rationalization.

(in reply to Owner59)

Post #: 2

RE: GOP Splits With Big Business - 3/7/2009 10:15:12 PM

Owner59

Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline

I think most businesses,most companies,most people ,.......don`t want the GOP plan for economic failure.

It`s that simple.

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 3/7/2009 10:16:21 PM >

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 3

RE: GOP Splits With Big Business - 3/7/2009 10:20:24 PM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

I think most businesses,most companies,most people ,.......don`t want the GOP plan for economic failure.

It`s that simple.

Granted under what you have represented as the "GOP Plan" Companies that have run themselves poorly enough to fail will be allowed to do so; to be replaced by people and companies succeeding.

However, I appreciate the Companies identified in the article need to have their failure rewarded with tax payer money provided by the this Administration and Congress. Can you blame them? Who knows how long the Corporate Welfare for Failure Program undertaken by this Administration will continue.

(in reply to Owner59)

Post #: 4

RE: GOP Splits With Big Business - 3/7/2009 11:03:00 PM

Owner59

Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline

There were folks in the 1930s who would have been just fine with a longer,worse,deeper great depression,just so they could pretend to be authentic capitalists.

They were called republicans.

The same GOP that today,is playing semantic word games while our economy shrinks,just so they can pretend to be principled.

Neo-cons/predator capitalists don`t know it/want admit to it,but FDR saved capitalism and started the greatest economic expansion in history.

Funny though.Allll that money business and the COC has given the GOP,possibly billions of dollars over the decades and what did it get them?

lol

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 5

RE: GOP Splits With Big Business - 3/8/2009 1:04:25 AM

awmslave

Posts: 599
Joined: 3/31/2006
Status: offline

The article (intentionally?) puts wrong emphasis. GOP is not against businesses but they oppose corruption: rewarding failure, making profits private losses public, departure from market principles etc... the usual arguments against Bush-Obama approach.

(in reply to Owner59)

Post #: 6

RE: GOP Splits With Big Business - 3/8/2009 6:50:32 AM

Lorr47

Posts: 862
Joined: 3/13/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: awmslave

The article (intentionally?) puts wrong emphasis. GOP is not against businesses but they oppose corruption: rewarding failure, making profits private losses public, departure from market principles etc... the usual arguments against Bush-Obama approach.

1. oppose corruption? Abramhoff, Reid, Secord etc etc
2. rewarding failure? Who was that great administer in FEMA during Katrina?
3. making profits private losses public? need a Ouija board to figure what you are trying to say.
4. Departure from market principles? Everything Paulson did but in particular letting Lehman go down because he was from Goldman.

Throw in Craig. the pages and Lindsey and you also cover hypocrisy. Yes, it is the GOP.Should be TRU. Thieves Are Us.

(in reply to awmslave)

Post #: 7

RE: GOP Splits With Big Business - 3/8/2009 8:10:32 AM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59
There were folks in the 1930s who would have been just fine with a longer,worse,deeper great depression,just so they could pretend to be authentic capitalists.
They were called republicans.
The same GOP that today,is playing semantic word games while our economy shrinks,just so they can pretend to be principled.
Neo-cons/predator capitalists don`t know it/want admit to it,but FDR saved capitalism and started the greatest economic expansion in history.

Funny though.Allll that money business and the COC has given the GOP,possibly billions of dollars over the decades and what did it get them?
lol

What are you laughing about?

You resort to irrelevant historical reference, attempt at insult, and have nothing that disputes the condition of payoffs and corporate welfare. Paying corporate welfare for political campaign contributions in the 1930's under your label of 'Republican' versus a Democratic President and a Democratic Congress changes your opinion? Paying it to the successful, versus paying it to the failures, changes your opinion? Both have the same tax payer impact.

Laugh away - laughing at your hypocrisy doesn't hide it.

(in reply to Owner59)

Post #: 8

RE: GOP Splits With Big Business - 3/8/2009 9:33:03 AM

Owner59

Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: awmslave

The article (intentionally?) puts wrong emphasis. GOP is not against businesses but they oppose corruption: rewarding failure, making profits private losses public, departure from market principles etc... the usual arguments against Bush-Obama approach.

Where you been that last 8 years? How was the weather there?

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to awmslave)

Post #: 9

RE: GOP Splits With Big Business - 3/8/2009 9:44:11 AM

Owner59

Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59
There were folks in the 1930s who would have been just fine with a longer,worse,deeper great depression,just so they could pretend to be authentic capitalists.
They were called republicans.
The same GOP that today,is playing semantic word games while our economy shrinks,just so they can pretend to be principled.
Neo-cons/predator capitalists don`t know it/want admit to it,but FDR saved capitalism and started the greatest economic expansion in history.

Funny though.Allll that money business and the COC has given the GOP,possibly billions of dollars over the decades and what did it get them?
lol
What are you laughing about?

You resort to irrelevant historical reference, attempt at insult, and have nothing that disputes the condition of payoffs and corporate welfare. Paying corporate welfare for political campaign contributions in the 1930's under your label of 'Republican' versus a Democratic President and a Democratic Congress changes your opinion? Paying it to the successful, versus paying it to the failures, changes your opinion? Both have the same tax payer impact.

Laugh away - laughing at your hypocrisy doesn't hide it.

Hey Merc,careful with your delicate constitution.

Not sure what you mean by hypocrisy,but whatever.

We`re just observing the train wreck,tending to the bodies and trying to stop the bleeding.

We`re not going to stop giving 1st aid and making rescue efforts of innocent people,just because neo-cons scream that we can`t,.... after your party ran the train(our economy) into a ditch.

As for going after the bad faith payers ,we got that covered too.Smell the change

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 3/8/2009 10:16:36 AM >

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 10

RE: GOP Splits With Big Business - 3/8/2009 9:47:17 AM

SpinnerofTales

Posts: 1586
Joined: 5/30/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
However, I appreciate the Companies identified in the article need to have their failure rewarded with tax payer money provided by the this Administration and Congress. Can you blame them? Who knows how long the Corporate Welfare for Failure Program undertaken by this Administration will continue.

Let me pose a hypothetical question: You are on a boat in the middle of the ocean. Somebody, either through stupidity or greed or any reason at all, puts a hole in the bottom of the boat. Do you think the proper response is to let the boat sink in order not to reward the person who put the hole in the boat? Or is the proper answer to patch up the hole and then worry about the proper punishment to the hole puncher?

No one wants to reward failure. But we are not in a case where letting the natrual, Darwinian forces of the market is going to fix things. If AIG fails, Joe's Insturance isn't going to step up to take up the slack. In the banking system crashes and burns, new banks aren't going to suddenly spring up to provide a meaningful alternative. In short, there is no way of letting those who deserve to sink at this moment go down without going down with them.

There is definitly a place for takign steps against the sort of thing that brought us to this situation. However, that time is after the boat is patched and no longer sinking fast. But when you're on a boat that is filling with water, I think arguing against bailing it out is not the best survival strategy.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 11

RE: GOP Splits With Big Business - 3/8/2009 9:51:10 AM

Evility

Posts: 915
Joined: 12/19/2007
Status: offline

Big Business wants a corporate welfare handout from Obama so they are at odds with the the GOP lawmakers who oppose handing out my tax dollars to reward them for running failing businesses. Is this really any surprise? It's either Obama or bankruptcy. Painting this as some major policy switch on the part of Big Business is laughable, at best.

(in reply to Owner59)

Post #: 12

RE: GOP Splits With Big Business - 3/8/2009 10:18:31 AM

Owner59

Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline

I don`t care what it is to cons.

It`s good news!

lol

Funny how neo-conservatives say/think that it`s,.........*everyone else* ,.......who`s out of step with Americans.And tragic...

It`s down right Freudian.The "discomfiture",lol, shows.......

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 3/8/2009 10:22:24 AM >

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to Evility)

Post #: 13

RE: GOP Splits With Big Business - 3/8/2009 11:06:03 AM

Dominatist

Posts: 87
Joined: 7/18/2007
Status: offline

Oops

< Message edited by Dominatist -- 3/8/2009 11:07:18 AM >

(in reply to awmslave)

Post #: 14

RE: GOP Splits With Big Business - 3/8/2009 5:30:37 PM

MasterShake69

Posts: 752
Joined: 11/30/2005
Status: offline

#1 yes people like McCain and Plain. Obama never fought against his own party.
#2 Mr Browne was forced out of his job.
#3 After 9-11 Prez Bush refused to help airlines who were screwing up prior to 9-11.
#4 Obamas people are just following in bush’s footsteps just escalating it. The bailout plans come from Obama’s new treasury guy who can’t pay his own taxes ;)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lorr47

quote:

ORIGINAL: awmslave

The article (intentionally?) puts wrong emphasis. GOP is not against businesses but they oppose corruption: rewarding failure, making profits private losses public, departure from market principles etc... the usual arguments against Bush-Obama approach.

1. oppose corruption? Abramhoff, Reid, Secord etc etc
2. rewarding failure? Who was that great administer in FEMA during Katrina?
3. making profits private losses public? need a Ouija board to figure what you are trying to say.
4. Departure from market principles? Everything Paulson did but in particular letting Lehman go down because he was from Goldman.

Throw in Craig. the pages and Lindsey and you also cover hypocrisy. Yes, it is the GOP.Should be TRU. Thieves Are Us.

(in reply to Lorr47)

Post #: 15

RE: GOP Splits With Big Business - 3/8/2009 6:37:11 PM

Owner59

Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline

<enjoying the "discomfiture">

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to MasterShake69)

Post #: 16

RE: GOP Splits With Big Business - 3/8/2009 7:26:47 PM

MrRodgers

Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

Glad you are proud to see an announcement illustrating that this Democratic administration is catering and providing Billions for Corporate welfare? "Recovery Plan"? Welfare by any other name is still expensive and insures ongoing failure.

Proud to announce a 'pay-off'. Amazing! Actually, not really - and I can't wait to hear the rationalization.

Who needs rationalization for doing the status quo ? America has always been the corporate welfare state. You don't look too young to know or remember. I mean think about it...we give $20 Billion to about 700,000 farmer EVERY year.

Taxpayers bought a coast to coast railroad, gave water and power to the west and the same to the Tenn. Valley and there's more there too. We have had socialism for the rich and capitalism for the poor for at least that long and on any comparitive scale.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 17

RE: GOP Splits With Big Business - 3/8/2009 8:04:27 PM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59
I don`t care what it is to cons.
It`s good news!
lol
Funny how neo-conservatives say/think that it`s,.........*everyone else* ,.......who`s out of step with Americans.And tragic...
It`s down right Freudian.The "discomfiture",lol, shows.......

If you couldn't put a label on a position you'd have nothing to say. No "steps" here just a Democratic party paying off corporate entitlement.
Imagining you giggling like a school girl because you're now supporting a policy of corporate welfare has made my Sunday evening. Who would have imagined you - an advocate for the Republican's and specifically President Bush's economic policies! What of 'Transparency? What of 'Zero Ear Mark'? Giggling away at your integrity is a worthless pastime.

Where is your party? Following prior policy of economic stimulus, rewarding those who fail, disenfranchising any entity or individual inclined to invest, and bankrupting the next generation.

quote:

If AIG fails, Joe's Insturance isn't going to step up to take up the slack. In the banking system crashes and burns, new banks aren't going to suddenly spring up to provide a meaningful alternative. In short, there is no way of letting those who deserve to sink at this moment go down without going down with them

You set up a self fulfilling prophecy and then refuse to allow an alternative? Why "no way"? You're say so? The Administration's? Again, setting up a self fulfilling prophecy.

You have mismanagement exhibited by policies working at cross purpose. The Banks, and individuals, need home values to stabilize; hoping they'll increase. It would be to everyone's benefit including the US taxpayers who now own a large chuck of these entities. Now you have the US Government, authorized by this Administration, to 're-evaluate' on the fly and devalue property in an effort of 'good intent' to keep people in their homes. Except by devaluing one house you devalue the neighborhood. Granted the target Fanny & Freddie deals are not a majority; however, one per a couple blocks - has the same effect. The result is, devaluation, not stabilization and working from less than depressed value on the books of the home owner, and the mortgage holder. Good policy, showing forethought?

There is enough capital on strike to fill the void if the bail out targets failed. That statement is as valid as saying there is no alternative than supporting, and giving money to failure. The difference is, the people and institutions with capital - didn't fail. They managed to survive, and or thrive while the AIG's were floundering. I propose it would be money better spent supporting the successes endeavors.

(in reply to Owner59)

Post #: 18

RE: GOP Splits With Big Business - 3/8/2009 8:37:15 PM

OrionTheWolf

Posts: 7803
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline

Oh great, now I have to worry about the Dems being in bed with Big Business? Shit, I knew there was not much difference between the two parties. So basically Big Business is willing to support which ever party gives them the money?
Hmmm. This is a good thing?

I used to know a guy that I worked with, and sometimes when I was unsure of what to do on the job I would ask him, and then do the opposite. It worked a high majority of the time. The way I look at it, Big Business is the same as this guy, and if they support what is going on, it really needs to have a much closer look at it before it is done.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

Even the closest, most intimate LTRs can be upset or even end, when finances become an issue.

I think this is great news.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0309/19585.html

"The fight over President Barack Obama’s economic recovery plan shined a light on the growing gap between Big Business and the GOP. While House Republicans voted unanimously against the legislation — twice — the vast majority of major business groups lobbied hard for it.

“There were a lot of good things in there on infrastructure and on tax relief, and a lot of things that were stimulative in our minds, which is why we ultimately supported it and worked really hard with the administration and Congress on getting some of the key provisions for manufacturers included,” said Maureen Davenport, senior vice president for communications for the National Association of Manufacturers."

_____________________________

When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

(in reply to Owner59)

Post #: 19

RE: GOP Splits With Big Business - 3/8/2009 9:11:05 PM

corysub

Posts: 1492
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

Even the closest, most intimate LTRs can be upset or even end, when finances become an issue.

I think this is great news.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0309/19585.html

"The fight over President Barack Obama’s economic recovery plan shined a light on the growing gap between Big Business and the GOP. While House Republicans voted unanimously against the legislation — twice — the vast majority of major business groups lobbied hard for it.

“There were a lot of good things in there on infrastructure and on tax relief, and a lot of things that were stimulative in our minds, which is why we ultimately supported it and worked really hard with the administration and Congress on getting some of the key provisions for manufacturers included,” said Maureen Davenport, senior vice president for communications for the National Association of Manufacturers."

The Politico comment distorts the truth to make a false claim about a "gap" between the GOP and Big Business. The actual comment from Frank Vargo,Vice-President for International Affairs of the National Association of Manufacturerers was headlined the Presidents "Pragmatic Agenda Can Benefit America's Manufacturers" and refers to Obama's "Trade Policy"..not the Presidents controversial and radical economic recovery agenda. It includes items such as:

1. Improving trade agreements rather than reopening them,

2. Helping small and medium sized businesses compete in the export market,

3. Obama's belief that the Panama trade agreement can move relatively quickly, and that benchmarks will be developed so there can be progress toward passage of the Colombia and Korea agreements as well. (This is something that Pelosi has been very much against, and good news, for a change)

4. the agenda calls for strong and effective intellectual property protection.

http://www.nam.org/NewsFromtheNAM.aspx?DID={FEE36A50-3058-489C-9A59-DFACF19D635F}

I don't think you will find ANY business man..other than Warren Buffet possibly, that loves the idea of a Carbon tax, elimination of their workers right to a secret ballot to vote for or against unionization, continuing and probably raising corporate taxes, already the highest on the planet, moves to force companies to repatriate "foreign earnings" and thus suffer American companies to "double taxation" from both the host country and the USA. I would love to see the businessman who welcomes these attacks on business before they put him in a padded cell for insanity!!

(in reply to Owner59)

Post #: 20

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