Experience, competencies, experts (Full Version)

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scottjk -> Experience, competencies, experts (3/4/2009 11:30:09 AM)

I've been mulling things around in my head regarding the term 'very experienced' or 'a great deal of experience', et. al.

Part of it is from reading profiles and personal ads with either the qualifications or requirements one has, regardless of what they're looking for in a partner. The concept of experience seems fraught with subjective interpretation, don't you think? A person can claim twenty years of experience, and yet can have gaps years wide in activity objectively. Often I get the vision of a statistical activity log, or an engine clock to keep track of the number of running hours:

24,234 strokes of a ten tailed flogger over a period of 18,873 hours spanning 20 years.

But, we don't do things like that, unless you happen to be a relatively stable OCD patient. :)  Things get ambiguous when some one else claims to have 'experience':

1,432 strokes of a ten tailed flogger over a period of 432 hours spanning 20 years.

With objective information as above, we can say that one is more experienced than the other, but without it, we can only agree that they are subjectively experienced and considered equal in the eyes of one that is seeking some one with experience.

Here's the kicker though. Experience doesn't mean competant, does it? Either one or both could be useless with a flogger, and yet, both can claim 'years of experience', and might even claim to be an expert, or worse, their peers could view them as experts, short of actual observation.

My understanding of competency is the ability to get the conscious desired result with a particular skill. That seems considerably more desirable than 'experience', and the title of expert can be more accurately applied.

More and more often I see demands or claims of experience, I chuckle and ask "What the hell does that mean?". Shouldn't we be claiming and seeking competencies, rather than experience, in ourselves and others in the skills we are seeking? Shouldn't we view our experts based on their competencies rather than based on experience?





junecleaver -> RE: Experience, competencies, experts (3/4/2009 11:52:17 AM)

Maybe I'm just especially coordinated...but flogging with your average flogger is not so complicated.  I get your point though.  I do believe experience tends to bring about competency.  But it's never a guarantee.  If I'm curious about someone,  I will in one way or another verify their experience through questions or observation.  Unless I am dating or watching a demo...a person's experience or even kinky skill type competence doesn't matter that much to me.  Personally, I will try to talk about the things I enjoy...not claim to be competent or experienced.



feydeplume -> RE: Experience, competencies, experts (3/4/2009 11:54:11 AM)

Good gods of joyful sex! now i have to redo my "resume" with my core competencies? Can't i just be good at something and suck at something else and be pretty ok at most things that i am willing or able to do?

The minute the local playspace starts offering core competency classes and certificates, I think we can kiss the fun good bye.

Experience (to my eyes and depending on the profile) means have done this at least one in real life and know that i had a good time. What more can i or anyone else ask since each experience is subtly different, no matter how perfunctory the act itself.

I am all for "your kink is ok" but please respect my desire to keep corporate lingo out of the dungeon! *****name freaking tags******* mission statements(^*^^%^#$@%%@%%%@ attainable goal sets!



LadyPact -> RE: Experience, competencies, experts (3/4/2009 11:59:12 AM)

I'll grant you.  It's a good question.
 
I claim very few areas of "expert" here or anywhere else.  Some people who have met Me, watched Me play, could say I should claim more.  My personal position is that, no matter if I get good or not, there is always someone out there who taught Me who knows more.



ELUSIVE1 -> RE: Experience, competencies, experts (3/4/2009 12:00:58 PM)

great point! sadly we usually can't judge how 'competent' a person is until they show how competent they are not



feydeplume -> RE: Experience, competencies, experts (3/4/2009 12:05:12 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ELUSIVE1

great point! sadly we usually can't judge how 'competent' a person is until they show how competent they are not


So does that mean you are willing to help write up the written exams or just volunteer for the "practical" portion of getting community certified? *falls over giggling at the idea of a play space turned into a DMV like testing center*

know i wanna know what the tests would look like for say fire play and is flogging going to be in three sections; front, back, and special zones? 





RealSub58 -> RE: Experience, competencies, experts (3/4/2009 12:05:30 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: scottjk

My understanding of competency is the ability to get the conscious desired result with a particular skill. That seems considerably more desirable than 'experience', and the title of expert can be more accurately applied. 

Shouldn't we view our experts based on their competencies rather than based on experience?



I see "expert" in the Interests column as well. 
I laugh at "expert" chef.  Credentials please !!
 
There are no experts, if there were, would the "financial guru's" be begging to be federally funded for a bailout with our taxpayers monies??
 
I do like the logic but I would much rather find your conclusion to read:  BDSM competency is the ability of a dominant to consciously obtain the desired result from a submissive with the use of a particular skill.  Experience lies in the proof of this competency.
 
Likewise with a submissive.  Competency and experience lies in the ability to give the dominant the desired results he is requesting.
 
Thus the control, authority and power exchange.


 



subangi -> RE: Experience, competencies, experts (3/4/2009 12:10:09 PM)

Experience tells me that there is some knowledge of the whos who, whats what,  whys and hows.  It tells me that the person pretty much knows their identity, and has an initial grasp of mine. There are natural Doms, subs, etc....but taking it to the level of education and practice offers me the idea that they have taken this seriously enough to pursue this type of relationship.



SailingBum -> RE: Experience, competencies, experts (3/4/2009 12:21:54 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: scottjk

I've been mulling things around in my head regarding the term 'very experienced' or 'a great deal of experience', et. al.


More and more often I see demands or claims of experience, I chuckle and ask "What the hell does that mean?". Shouldn't we be claiming and seeking competencies, rather than experience, in ourselves and others in the skills we are seeking? Shouldn't we view our experts based on their competencies rather than based on experience?



UH Dude.

You just now figuring this stuff out???  Though you could argue BDSM is pretty simple stuff and does not require much in the way of skill.  Bondage yep I can tie a knot.  Discipline smack smack Sadist I enjoi hurting da bitches... you get the idea.

Maybe tho we could get some nifty merit badges for the novices so we know not to let them use rope or other dangerous materials.

BadOne



LaTigresse -> RE: Experience, competencies, experts (3/4/2009 12:25:29 PM)

But, saying your an expert sounds MUCH cooler than saying you are competent!!

Experience just tells me they've been around awhile. Not whether or not they are any good at any given thing.



SailingBum -> RE: Experience, competencies, experts (3/4/2009 12:29:00 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

But, saying your an expert sounds MUCH cooler than saying you are competent!!

Experience just tells me they've been around awhile. Not whether or not they are any good at any given thing.



You do have a point.

"BadExpert"  hmmm it does have a coolness factor of 10 Squared.



antipode -> RE: Experience, competencies, experts (3/4/2009 1:04:09 PM)

quote:

The concept of experience seems fraught with subjective interpretation


Nah. It is not fraught. And it is not subjective, though it may be embellished by further definition. It is well defined in the dictionary, and has a very simple meaning. A trucking company looking for an experienced driver, you think that is subjective? Or an experienced desert driver? I am at a loss to understand why you wrote this whole thing up.

Elsewhere in this thread the word "expert" is bandied about, as well as "competent" - those are easily defined as well - an expert is somebody who knows everything about their area of expertise (which may or may not combine with experience and competence!), while someone who is competent is simply somebody who is good at something. Doesn't mean they are an expert or experienced, somebody can be a competent driver without experience or expertise. Etc.





Honsoku -> RE: Experience, competencies, experts (3/4/2009 1:33:39 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: antipode

quote:

The concept of experience seems fraught with subjective interpretation


Nah. It is not fraught. And it is not subjective, though it may be embellished by further definition. It is well defined in the dictionary, and has a very simple meaning. A trucking company looking for an experienced driver, you think that is subjective? Or an experienced desert driver? I am at a loss to understand why you wrote this whole thing up.


How much experience is needed to be considered "experienced" is what is subjective. Am I an experienced desert driver after have driven through one desert? Five? Ten?

quote:

Elsewhere in this thread the word "expert" is bandied about, as well as "competent" - those are easily defined as well - an expert is somebody who knows everything about their area of expertise (which may or may not combine with experience and competence!), while someone who is competent is simply somebody who is good at something. Doesn't mean they are an expert or experienced, somebody can be a competent driver without experience or expertise. Etc.


By that definition of "expert", there are no experts, unless one defines their area(s) of expertise as containing only the information they know. Do you think a prominent physicist knows everything that there is to know about the field of physics? I bet not, yet I would also bet that most people would rightly consider him an expert in the field. In my opinion (backed up by usage) words like capable, competent, skilled, expert, etc are all comparative measures. Being an expert sushi chef is going to mean different things in the States and in Japan because the expected levels of skill and knowledge are different.



Evility -> RE: Experience, competencies, experts (3/4/2009 2:45:27 PM)

People seek out experienced dominants because... when was the last time you met an inexperienced yet competent dominant? They are few and far between.



mc1234 -> RE: Experience, competencies, experts (3/4/2009 3:12:23 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Evility
People seek out experienced dominants because... when was the last time you met an inexperienced yet competent dominant? They are few and far between.


Depends on your definition of competent dominant.  [:)]

But yes ... asking for a Dominant's experience is one way for someone less experienced in forming a D/s relationship to gauge whatever that Dom offers.  I tend to ask about past relationships, ideas and philosophies when getting to know someone rather than 'how many years' he's spent doing a particular thing - that tells me more about compatability than anything else, and also lets him know what I'm looking for.




feydeplume -> RE: Experience, competencies, experts (3/4/2009 4:10:50 PM)

I am seeing the blurring of two totally different things here... Ability to perform a sensation based activity and Ability to perform an emotion based bond.

Someone that is competent and whips, chains, chips, and dip need have NO real skill or ability in being a Dom/me.
A Dom/me doesn't need to be skilled at flogs and whips and shibari and what all.

The OP seems to be talking about the skill set of a Top not a Dom/me and that is something that is quantifiable where one person's perfect D is another person's nightmare.



Owner4SexSlave -> RE: Experience, competencies, experts (3/4/2009 4:24:29 PM)

Some people have a lot of experience at something and still have not figured out or learned how to be really good at it.   There are some many different aspects and areas of BDSM and the lifestyle, that experience alone does not make a partner any better compared to another on a whole.   Experience does not reflect personality and mindset and many other attributes of a person.  As somebody mentioned experienced truck drivers, how many of them are experienced at driving in heavy winter conditions verses not?   Short hauls vs. Long Hauls.  Wide loads vs. Double trailers.  How many can handle hauling loads of Fragile goods such as eggs compared a load of bricks?  Come on here folks.   It's best to simply communicate and talk about BDSM, Kink, D/s relationships with prospective partners.   Generally, people are not hired upon their resume alone for a job, they are interviewed as well.  Things posted on profiles just give you a very rough idea at best.  Many people enjoy false advertising or trying to make themselves look good.  So best way to figure out and know more is to spend some quality time talking to the other person.



CatdeMedici -> RE: Experience, competencies, experts (3/4/2009 4:50:36 PM)

I tihnk the terms and the concepts: experience, competency and experts to be subjective, relative terms in relation to our current needs, framework and drivers.  Different variables at any given moment make all those things successful or failures, in our world or out of it.



scottjk -> RE: Experience, competencies, experts (3/4/2009 6:37:02 PM)

Hmm, I should define expert, though I thought I had. :)

Expert defines an individual that OTHERS seek advice and possibly instruction from. It's a peer based title, so to speak. I tend to shudder when some one declares themselves an expert. It really casts a doubt in my mind that they really are. :)

I'd rather be referred to an expert, rather than invited by some one that says they're an expert. :)

I can see that there is some confusion about the difference between experience and competency, though. It's rather interesting to see how people view it. Some believe that experience and competency are interchangeable, but they haven't really thought about it.





CatdeMedici -> RE: Experience, competencies, experts (3/4/2009 6:46:15 PM)

IMHO "expert" is subjective--I flog a sub, they love it, are thrilled, have a high, I'm an expert--I flog the next sub, he "ho hums"--I suck at it--as I stated, to espouse I am an expert is arrogant--there will always be someone better, faster, smarter--an expert IMHO is someone who excels in what I need at that moment in time based upon the framework of My knowledge, needs, desires.



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