Opinions Sought

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Desdriv -> Opinions Sought (2/28/2009 8:16:53 AM)
First, It is a pleasure to meet everyone , although I have been a member for a while I believe this is my first post.. To be honest I am not sure because there is always the possibility albeit seldom, that I may have said hello previously and do not remember, like right now for instance the possibility exists and for sure the time I signed up. Anyways, it is a pleasure, I appreciate all feedback and thoughts generous people are willing to share. My situation is this and question to follow. I am very fortunate and grateful to have found the love of my life almost six years ago, Nobody is perfect and certainly not She nor myself, we have certainly had our differences, ups and downs, etc... but the fact of the matter is that we love each other and we appreciate the love we share. All in All things are great and I asure you I am not thinking about this nor asking due to lack of anything, I am asking because I would like very much to know others perspectives and thoughts. I may have failed at this already but in an attempt to make a long story short, BDSM was my interest and the moment that I felt serious about her I told her about my interest at the risk of a reaction I had not hoped for but in the interest of honesty and respect. The result was beyond spectacular and I will quote from my fondest memory, (mind you that she was from a culture I had no personal knowledge of at the time, she is Mexican, and was raised in a very religious based home) , she said to me in the sweetest way, " I appreciate you being honest with me, I am not sure where we are going either, but I strongly like you to and although this is not something I am familiar with, I will look into it with an open mind if it is something that is of interest to you", then she said " you know I am very happy that you feel this way about me and enough to tell me something so personal, many spend there lives keeping secrets and hiding their true feelings and desires and are really strangers to each other", then she said "and you know what else I think that a lot of pain and mistakes could be avoided if people would talk more openly like this look at all the rape and violence" and at this point, all of the worrying and second guessing I had tortured myself with prior , faded away. She really is that way , just a beautiful person inside and out and I love her. Now comes my question. From there she did indeed keep an open mind and in fact was excited about learning of and thinking about things she had never been exposed to nor considered and to this day she enjoys some conversation and exploration together. But the fact is that as the newness wore off so faded her excitement and then came the realization that she did not share the interest nor passion at the level that I do. Which is fine, understandable and respected. For me though, a bit of a let down as I had been so excited in the thought that one day, however long it took, we would eventually be able to explore together beyond the safety zone we had created , unknowingly for me. There came a point where I felt that it was time and the excitement blinded me to the fact that she had no desire to take it any further, and the desire blinded me to the fact that I was pushing her to find the desire which did and does not exist for her. Thankfully, even though late, I realized this and stopped altogether as our relationship was under stress at my pushing. It had been quite some time and the other day I approached her to let her know that I love her and never want her to feel that type of pressure from me but that I do still hold these desires. She said to me , "I love you very much and I am very happy, I do enjoy and think about these fantasies but I am also very nervous and not ready to take it to another level and do not know if I will ever be able to but I know that these are desires that you have and there is nothing wrong with them and I want you to find someone and act on them, at this point I asked her if she is serious and actually my true feeling at the time was that I wanted to explore with her and not for her to not be present, and she responded , please, I want you to do this, just be careful, respectful of me and don't talk about it. Very sorry to anyone who reads this I have definitely failed at long story short .... So here I sit, questioning myself on many levels, first and most importantly, I love her deeply and would never want to disrespect nor hurt her in any way, I do have the concern that as paranoid as it may seem, there is the rare occasion that a woman has said to me one thing and meant something else entirely but she has not held anything back in the past in such a way so I have no reason to believe so now. Bottom line is I have permission, and the desire, but my main and only concern in the decision to explore my own desires without her would be just that...that I would be doing so out of selfishness, please know that I am the type of person who more often then not puts others before myself when making decisions and perhaps a reason why this decision is not so simple for me. I would like to know what you would do if you had the desire and the permission. Thank You all in advance and I look forward to reading your thoughtful response.

YoursMistress -> RE: Opinions Sought (2/28/2009 8:43:57 AM)
I don't want to be a pessimist, but I sense impending doom. Perhaps there will be others replying who have had good experiences here. It sounds like a choice to me, and I suspect that as you proceed down the path of exploring your desires with someone other than your spouse, you will be moving apart. Now you didn't describe in detail your desires, and whether there are sexual aspects to them may be important. An option may include the use of male partners to allow her some pleasure in participation. I'm not sure if that represents an acceptable compromise. Congratulations on having such honest and intense communications with her. You have a wonderful blessing there that many people don't share. Please move deliberately and choose wisely. Good luck in your journey. yours

humbledude64 -> RE: Opinions Sought (2/28/2009 9:01:11 AM)
Yes, since you don't give details it is going to be hard to draw a road map for you. Not that men follow maps anyway. I will make this simplistic statement: if you decide to follow your bliss, it is either going to improve your relationship with this woman or hurt it. To help lessen the latter possibility, involve her as much as possible and reassure her whenever possible. You can even reciprocate and indulge her in what she likes to do more often, since she is indulging you. And that's all I want to say. <Exit...stage left.>

Desdriv -> RE: Opinions Sought (2/28/2009 9:09:07 AM)
Thank You for your thoughtful reply, I agree with your thoughts as I have no desire to stray nor lose the connection in any way, to be honest and in reply to your statement, quote : "Now you didn't describe in detail your desires, and whether there are sexual aspects to them may be important", I did not go into detail because I felt it inappropriate but the truth is that my desire is purely sexual . I have not even considered the point yet that I would surely have a hard time even finding someone to explore with based on that fact, and I do not have any desire to be offensive so please take honesty with a grain of salt as there are surely many opinions after saying that which I could not have avoided based on any presentation so there you have it, the simple truth. Thanks again appreciate very much your feedback

KnightofMists -> RE: Opinions Sought (2/28/2009 9:13:34 AM)
well... I can't begin to tell you how much I relate to your issues and concerns. It was alittle bit different for myself. It was Alandra that had a desire for opening our relationship and having a Poly-lifestyle. One of the issues that I had to deal with was the trust in her commitment to this desire. As they say, talk is cheap, but what would her reactions be when I become involved and fall in love with another woman. In the end, she could walk the talk and then some. But, what help me believe in her was that I did trust her. We built this trust step by step. We shared our thougths just like you shared yours in the beginning. These things build trust. I came to realize that this open-door to communicate was something I could count on and in some many ways she showed by her actions that she was in touch with who she was as a person. I look at your situation, and see that regardless that your girl doesn't share the same passion for BDSM that you do. She did walk that road with you to learn and discover her own way in that world. She is not trying to involve herself into BDSM for your sake, which shows me that she knows her own boundaries and desires. There is strength in her and confidence in her understanding of what she can or can't do. Of course, it is not going to be easy. You both are going to still be venturing into uncharted territory... but you have the tools and foundation to explore it just like you did before. The open effective communication is going to be key as you take steps in the direction of the door she is willing to open. Keep in mind.. that even though you might be engaging in these activities.. you both are still going to be doing it together.

Desdriv -> RE: Opinions Sought (2/28/2009 9:22:27 AM)
Thanks humbledude , it's funny to me after reading your post that I was going to say that men invented maps and the irony in not using them but to my surprise a quick search brought me to the conclusion that nobody knows who invented maps , which most likely means that women invented maps , it amazes me that I am 36 years old and that thought never crossed my mind.... Anyways appreciate your response, Thank You.

Desdriv -> RE: Opinions Sought (2/28/2009 9:27:12 AM)
Thanks Knight appreciate your thoughts, I thought that this would begin complicated and become simple , quite the opposite, Thank You all who have and will reply greatly appreciated.

BitaTruble -> RE: Opinions Sought (2/28/2009 10:17:18 AM)
fr Nutshells can be useful on occasion so with that in mind -- Your lady has granted you permission to seek out what she cannot give you but you fear her talk won´t match her walk when push comes to shove. Does that about cover it? If you test her resolve and she fails the test, you could lose her but then, you are probably losing your ideal of her and not the person she actually is anyway. If you do not test her resolve and you deny yourself, you could grow to resent her and possibly lose her anyway. It seems to me that the only way to win is to trust that her talk and walk match and cross bridges as you come to them. Finding someone to indulge your proclivities is a whole other kettle of fish. Best of luck to you.

velvetears -> RE: Opinions Sought (2/28/2009 10:36:23 AM)
"at this point I asked her if she is serious and actually my true feeling at the time was that I wanted to explore with her and not for her to not be present, and she responded , please, I want you to do this, just be careful, respectful of me and don't talk about it." i think that she wants you to have what you desire, but the fact that she doesn't want you to talk about it speaks for itself - it bothers her on some level. If she shows you it bothers her over time you might come to resent her because of the guilt you may feel knowing how it hurts her . If she doesn't let on it is bothering her and you go on your merry way thinking everything is hunky dory, then in time she may come to resent you thinking you are inconsiderate of her feelings. Some women tend to instill in their partners mind reading capabilities they don't have. Men i think tend to take things more at face value. It's a risk in the end you will have to weigh carefully. Can you live with the fact that following your desires led you to loose her or not following them will not lead you to feel so stifled you have to end the relationship down the road. Good luck.

CreativeDominant -> RE: Opinions Sought (2/28/2009 10:56:35 AM)
I think in just a few answers, you have very good answers. You have a decision to make because it has come to a point where push either comes to shove or you quit pushing (so to speak). I think Knight made great sense and his life situation with alendra and kyra shows that it can be done. But as a cautionary note, keep in mind that all 3 were amenable to what has happened and shared important similarities in interest whereas your spouse has not. This is where velvetears words make sense...the part about women oftentimes attributing mind-reading capabilities to men that we just...don't...have. If you choose to take her at her word, stay aware of HER...follow up with her always on what she is feeling. There will be some high bridges to cross...good luck.

dreamerdreaming -> RE: Opinions Sought (2/28/2009 11:30:52 AM)
This is why you shouldn't try to make a vanilla girl into your Domme. She has feelings for you (love or whatever) so she tries to be what you want/need... And still it isn't enough. Because she's doing it to please you. Not out of any need or desire of her own, except to please you. The two of you are a mismatch. If you stay with her and seek elsewhere for your submissive needs, she will be unfulfilled. She will wonder why the real her isn't good enough. Why she had to try to be someone else for you. She'll become angry and resentful, and with good reason. And if you stay with her and stay faithful to her, you will feel unfulfilled. You will always need/desire more than she is capable of giving. Your needs don't match. Next time, don't settle. Seek someone who already identifies as a Domme, rather than trying to make a vanilla girl into the Domme of your dreams.

antipode -> RE: Opinions Sought (2/28/2009 1:35:08 PM)
quote: I would like to know what you would do if you had the desire and the permission. I quit pussyfooting a long time ago.

DesFIP -> RE: Opinions Sought (2/28/2009 2:11:31 PM)
Do you want a submissive or a bottom? Because if what you want is simply s & m, then start taking workshops, make friends and ask people to stunt bottom for you. If the urge is simply to inflict pain on a willing person, then seek out a straight male bottom. Play in public. Invite your wife to accompany you to public dungeons, to workshops etc. Let her meet people you play with. And by playing only with people you don't want to have sex with, that preserves your marriage. Separate sex and pain play. And see if that's enough.

peppermint -> RE: Opinions Sought (2/28/2009 3:04:28 PM)
quote: I would like to know what you would do if you had the desire and the permission. My husband told me to do whatever I needed to do. Somehow meeting someone in real life would have felt like an affair so that was not an option for me. I frequented BDSM forums and had friends I made online. That it would ever go beyond that point was only a fantasy. Then husband became more ill and eventually passed away. Nearly a year later I became involved with the real time people in my state. If husband were still here, I would still be dreaming only...but that's just me and what I needed to do to maintain my own morals. Your situation is different from mine and you will need to make your own choices and live with those choices.

CallaFirestormBW -> RE: Opinions Sought (2/28/2009 3:44:07 PM)
One concern that springs out at me is the concern about her request that you not talk to her about what you're doing if you begin a secondary relationship to meet your interests in BDSM. It's been my experience (30 years+ of multi-individual relationships and providing pastoral care for others in multi-individual relationships) that in cases where one partner opens the relationship for the other, but prefers to pretend that nothing is happening (hear no evil, see no evil... or "don't ask, don't tell") there comes a time when bitterness creeps into the equation. In 30 years, I haven't yet found one of these situations where it wasn't poisoned, in time, by jealousy, bitterness, and isolation for the non-participating partner. In addition, for the secondary partner in this relationship, the ongoing stress of being the 'other person', and the continuing need for extreme discretion and the sense of isolation from crucial parts of the other partner's life can put a tremendous strain on the relationship, and promote feelings of discardability, and fears of abandonment which can make it very difficult to open to the full scope of yielding for a submissive individual.

Desdriv -> RE: Opinions Sought (3/7/2009 8:25:20 PM)
Thank You very much to all who took the time to respond, great and thoughtful answers and appreciated, have some thinking to do but you have all been kind and helpful.

antipode -> RE: Opinions Sought (3/7/2009 10:39:41 PM)
quote: I want you to find someone and act on them While it is possible, as others have stated, that your enacting this desire may jeopardize your relationship - and I am pragmatic and will say that if that's going to happen, it is going to happen - it is possible also that your good lady has decided she wants you for a partner, and letting you get your rocks off "outside" is not going to impair her happiness, on the contrary, it may strengthen your relationship. It is up to you to find out which is which. I seem to hear you say that your desires are tied to your partner, and that could be a problem. If you can divorce your sexual needs from your relationship, you could handle all this, together, as two mature human beings. Mistresses aren't a common or accepted thing in American society, in other parts of the world it is quite normal for someone to have a lover "on the side". You need to think carefully about where you want to go with this, how you see your life develop, in the future, but if you think you can handle a "Parisian" situation, where you take your, umm, perversions elsewhere, there is absolutely no reason why you can't both be very happy in your relationship. A little over a decade ago, I connected with a young woman at a dating site, and we kind of got on well, and set up a date. It turned out she was married, had two kids, and was doing all this with her husband's consent. So she flew over for some deeply depraved delicious debauchery, and we had a good old time, and then she went home again. Sometime later she called me, to ask me if I would be willing to give her husband some career advice, something to do with his company being taken over by an American conglomerate, and how to deal with his new remote boss. Long story short, I am still mentoring him today, we're all the best of friends, they immigrated, got their green cards and now live near Seattle, and they are still very happily married. If you can bring yourself to think of sex as a recreational activity, which your partner seems to do, you can have oodles of fun, without the pressure.

LadyPact -> RE: Opinions Sought (3/8/2009 3:06:21 AM)
OK. I have to say this. A little bit of space between the paragraphs would have made this an easier read. Just saying. As to the content of the OP, I would have had some good comments on the subject. The problem was the follow up comment. Since this is specifically about the sex, where it boils down to 'don't talk about it' with the spouse, I'm afraid I really can't help. I have experience in relationships other than the primary, but not with situations where Mister Pact wasn't right there with Me every step of the way. (Including watching S/m scenes before he became interested himself.) I wouldn't have taken clip as a submissive if his wife had this approach. OP, you don't mention if you are top or bottom. There are going to be challenges with the approach of, "Oh yeah. My wife says it's ok. She just doens't want to know about it." Also, I'd like to echo something that was said earlier. Some people are fine with the idea of their spouse having sex on the side. Right up until the time that they actually have a romp in the hey with someone else. Edited for an early morning spelling error.

Desdriv -> RE: Opinions Sought (3/19/2009 11:19:58 PM)
Hi LadyPact, Thank You for taking the time to respond. I appreciate it when people say what is on their mind, I hope you do not take offense if I attempt to clarify what may turn out to be a difference of opinion although I assure you it is not my intention. Now that you mention it and after looking back at the responses I can see that putting a space between paragraphs makes a great deal of sense as well as having a significantly greater visual appeal and I have no excuse other than my focus when writing was not based on impression but communication. Now that I am aware of this fault I will do my best to correct it. As far as comment on "OP" please forgive my ignorance I am certain I will shake my head after knowing but I have no idea what "OP" is. I did not mention "top" or "bottom" or much detail solely out of respect for the creators and keepers of this site, I am new here and based on what I read many of the discussions appeared to be general discussions in the general forum so I was trying to be respectful as I am well aware of how difficult it is to keep a forum in check and still don't see the relevance but if you feel that it is relevant I certainly appreciate your opinion, I am a straight male, 36 years old, Dom with respect and appreciation. I do not take this discussion lightly and what "some people" do , think or feel is not what I base life decisions upon, in defense of your statement which quite honestly feels like an accusation, I think that if you read through this thread again, you will not find me in any way advocating nor defending "sex on the side" as you mentioned nor any relationships of any kind which would be disrespectful of the woman I love. I have a great deal of respect for everyone, we are all in the same boat when you get down to basics and I certainly have respect for knowledge, experience and time spent, I am a newcomer , here, I see your four paddles and to be honest it doesn't mean a thing to me, as well as you having no idea as to my knowledge and/or level of experience, if you replied to genuinely offer your thoughts and introduce yourself I thank you and look forward to getting to know you, if you replied to attack and wave your imaginary paddles around, then with all due respect .... off.

IronBear -> RE: Opinions Sought (3/19/2009 11:58:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BitaTruble fr Nutshells can be useful on occasion so with that in mind -- Your lady has granted you permission to seek out what she cannot give you but you fear her talk won´t match her walk when push comes to shove. Does that about cover it? If you test her resolve and she fails the test, you could lose her but then, you are probably losing your ideal of her and not the person she actually is anyway. If you do not test her resolve and you deny yourself, you could grow to resent her and possibly lose her anyway. It seems to me that the only way to win is to trust that her talk and walk match and cross bridges as you come to them. Finding someone to indulge your proclivities is a whole other kettle of fish. Best of luck to you. I have to agree with this as this is the path I trod when my wife and I looked at taking things further and started seeking a slave. My question to the OP is: "If you do not test your l;ady's resolve in this matter and back off, how will you ever be sure that she would have gone down the path with you?" For all you know once the plan is in opperation she may well find that she has a dominant streak and wish to have a male sub/slave herself giving you the chance of a poly and a Dom/Dom relationship which can be most rewarding.. Were it me now, I'd give it a go with the understanding that if the sub/slave starts rocking your relationship boat you pull the plug. It depends on your priorities.

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