Keep Your Hands Off the Post! (Full Version)

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SpinnerofTales -> Keep Your Hands Off the Post! (2/23/2009 1:32:32 PM)

This may sound strange coming from a proudly identified liberal, but the backlash against the NY Post is becoming worrisome to me.

As everyone by now is aware, the post published a cartoon, soon after Travis the chimp was shot, that has caused great offense. The protesters claim that the cartoon was racist. The Post, of course, claims that it was not. For the purposes of this issue, however, the truth of the matter is irrelevant.

I am not at all disturbed with the protest of this cartoon by those who are offended. In fact, I support the idea of free speech in action in both directions, both the right to say something and the right to dispute it. But now, Al Sharpton is calling for governmental agencies to step in and strip the allowance Rupert Murdoch has already recieved to run two newspapers in the same market (The Post and the Wall Street Journal).

This idea, no matter how well intentioned is a direct threat to our freedom of speech. As things stand now, we have a simple, practical rule, the government cannot punish you for stating your opinion. Yes, I know that you cannot yell "fire" in a crowded theater, but you are perfectly able to yell "theater!" in a crowded fire. If the Post is punished on a governmental level for this cartoon, the rule becomes, "The government CAN punish a person or organization for expressing an opinion."

The slippery slope is obvious. Once this precedent  is  set, freedom of speech is replaced by the ability of the party in charge to decide what is and what is not to be allowed. This flies in the face of the intent of the first amendment, which was crafted for the purpose of protecting politically offensive speech. Those who benefit from such a change by having the post punished for their racist cartoon could as easily tomorrow suffer from being unable to mount their criticism against a leader, institution or bill that they find objectionable.

The answer to this problem is NOT to involve the government and give them the power to decide what is allowable to be said and what is forbidden. The answer is to use free speech and free choice against their free speech and free cost. If one finds the Post's cartoon offensive, don't buy the Post. If enough people do this, there will either be a change in their policies or they will cease to be a viable newspaper. Protest publicly. If enough people make their outrage known, those who are reachable will be reached and even those who aren't will take notice.

But for the sake of one of the foundation freedoms of our society, don't let the government even think it can start to make decisions on what opinions can be expressed. Our freedom hangs in the balance.





Vendaval -> RE: Keep Your Hands Off the Post! (2/23/2009 1:56:10 PM)

Spinner,
 
Do you have a link for what is going on with Murdoch and Sharpton?




domiguy -> RE: Keep Your Hands Off the Post! (2/23/2009 2:12:22 PM)

Al Sharpton can call for whatever he likes....Free speech, remember?   No one is going to act.  End of story.




DomKen -> RE: Keep Your Hands Off the Post! (2/23/2009 2:14:27 PM)

Murdoch isn't legally allowed to operate two newspapers in the same market. Enforcing the law threatens no ones free speech rights. No matter which one Rupert divests he would still have a major news outlet in the NYC market to speak in.

The chimp cartoon is in very poor taste but certainly shouldn't be censored. Although the Post's editorial board needs to take a hard look at the early 60's Dallas Morning News and avoid becoming the modern equivalent.




domiguy -> RE: Keep Your Hands Off the Post! (2/23/2009 2:19:08 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Murdoch isn't legally allowed to operate two newspapers in the same market. Enforcing the law threatens no ones free speech rights. No matter which one Rupert divests he would still have a major news outlet in the NYC market to speak in.



My first response was a bit to quick....freedom of speech does not mean that you can have a monopoly on the resource.  As newspapers fade it will be interesting how the net is patrolled.




kdsub -> RE: Keep Your Hands Off the Post! (2/23/2009 2:27:11 PM)

Somebody should be fired...not because they did not have a right to print controversial cartoons...But because it was just down right stupid to do it.

Stupidity should be rewarded… with a boot in the ass as they go out the door..

Butch




corysub -> RE: Keep Your Hands Off the Post! (2/23/2009 2:27:29 PM)

I agree that the cartoon was in bad taste...thankfully it wasn't a cartoon of Mohammed or the Post would be toast!  Frankly, I don't have any problem left or right with what is expressed in the news...no one should have to worry about their freedom of speech being taken away by protestors who disagree with the message or a Congress that feels talk radio might be hitting too many nerves and see the need for a "Fairness Doctrine".  Frankly, I do have a problem with newspapers that publish military secrets that do not involve any freedoms of the citizens of the country, eg, the New York Times that seems to take orgasmic pleasure outing a secret mission...like some kid saying "I know something you don't know"...The latest example of this was only today, actually, when they exposed the work our troops were doing IN Pakistan.  Here we have a shaky government, at best, with the military on both sides of the terrorist fight...and the Times publishes something that could possibly cost lives..maybe even American lives...and where is the protest.  Somehow all the fury over a cartoon doesn't cut it in comparison.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29347211/#storyContinued




rulemylife -> RE: Keep Your Hands Off the Post! (2/23/2009 2:29:45 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Vendaval

 what is going on with Murdoch and Sharpton?


They've been secretly engaged for many, many years and hoping to tie the knot soon.

I think they make a lovely couple.




Vendaval -> RE: Keep Your Hands Off the Post! (2/23/2009 2:31:01 PM)

Ohh...such domestic bliss for the two of them!  [sm=doghouse.gif]




UncleNasty -> RE: Keep Your Hands Off the Post! (2/23/2009 2:34:54 PM)

Since the Tawana Brawley episode back in the 90's I've had zero respect for Al Sharpton. A self aggrandizer out to inflate his own image with no credibility and willing to exploit anyone and anything to meet his own selfish ends.

On the other hand he does have a right to say pretty much anything - as do we all.

Uncle Nasty




aravain -> RE: Keep Your Hands Off the Post! (2/23/2009 3:03:55 PM)

~FR~

In the immortal words of my grandmother:

Blowhards blow hard.




Coldwarrior57 -> RE: Keep Your Hands Off the Post! (2/23/2009 3:57:48 PM)

the cartoon was not racists. In fact those that claim it was all about obama are racists.
They see the chimp as obama. thats all on them.
if I recall the text properly , they should do that to the next one that writes the stim pack . or words to that effect.
that I know of the pack was not written by Obama, and even if it was, then its their own bigotry they see.
They perceive obama as a chimp.
I took it as the old saying " chimps with typewritters".




Owner59 -> RE: Keep Your Hands Off the Post! (2/23/2009 6:32:06 PM)

Well,you`re just one opinion and you`re in the minority.

~~~~~~~~~~

The Post brought Sharpton into it with their stupid non-apology apology.

WTF were they thinking?!

They have no one to blame but themselves for making this as big a deal as it`s become and for increasing Sharpton`s cache.

If they had just made a sincere apology,this would have been last week`s news.

I saw the pres of the NAACP call for a nation wide boycott of all Newscorp operations.

I think Muuurdock is going to learn a hard lesson about how people also vote with their dollars.

If there`s one thing Muuurdock hates,that`s losing money.

I agree with Uncle about Sharpton being a crook.Tawana Brawley was the least of his crimes.

The Post and Al deserve each other.










Vendaval -> RE: Keep Your Hands Off the Post! (2/23/2009 6:34:17 PM)

Fast Reply -
 
"Keep your hands off the post and around your ankles!"   [sm=crop.gif]




Owner59 -> RE: Keep Your Hands Off the Post! (2/23/2009 6:37:57 PM)

he-he




Vendaval -> RE: Keep Your Hands Off the Post! (2/23/2009 6:41:21 PM)

Couldn't help myself there, just way too obvious of a bad pun.  [;)]
 
"Bad puns, bad puns, whatcha gonna do?  Whatcha gonna do when they come for you?"




corysub -> RE: Keep Your Hands Off the Post! (2/23/2009 11:14:11 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Somebody should be fired...not because they did not have a right to print controversial cartoons...But because it was just down right stupid to do it.

Stupidity should be rewarded… with a boot in the ass as they go out the door..

Butch


It is quite clear that the edict has been issued.  Any picture, text, word, gesture, or cartoon that might in anyway suggest a derogatory statement towards Barack Obama, no matter if true or not, is "haram".  




MrRodgers -> RE: Keep Your Hands Off the Post! (2/23/2009 11:31:52 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: Vendaval

 what is going on with Murdoch and Sharpton?


They've been secretly engaged for many, many years and hoping to tie the knot soon.

I think they make a lovely couple.

I think we have to let them both go on. They make it so easy to laugh at them and how obviously each is so biased and are now...beyond all reason.




kdsub -> RE: Keep Your Hands Off the Post! (2/24/2009 8:06:08 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: corysub

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Somebody should be fired...not because they did not have a right to print controversial cartoons...But because it was just down right stupid to do it.

Stupidity should be rewarded… with a boot in the ass as they go out the door..

Butch


It is quite clear that the edict has been issued.  Any picture, text, word, gesture, or cartoon that might in anyway suggest a derogatory statement towards Barack Obama, no matter if true or not, is "haram".  


Yes... as a businessman if an employee did something stupid that affected my bottom line he or she would be fired. It was stupid to print such a thing when anyone with an IQ above 10 would have known it could be interpreted as racists even it that was not the intent.

Butch





Termyn8or -> RE: Keep Your Hands Off the Post! (2/24/2009 8:54:24 AM)

So let's all assume the best, that they were referring to the chimps with typewriters in relation to the sheer volume of words in the bill, in fact any bill. Does that really make it better ?

I mean is it better that our lawmakers do not have a chance to read these ridiculously long winded bills, which make my longest posts look like one liners, have to vote on them, creating laws of which they are unaware ?

No matter how you take that cartoon personally, I don't think it is saying anything good.

Go to a law library, take any law, that is a bill passed into law. Read it. Note the time it takes you to read it. Then have a look at when it was proposed vs when it actually became law. I think in plenty of cases you'll find that you could not read the whole thing in the time span between introduction and passage.

However the world seems to have latched on to the race issue, as they always do, and if I'm right in my optimism, the actual point has been missed.

The only one who has even tried to do something about the long winded bills was Ron Paul, who introduced a bill that would require bills to be made available both in print and electronic media five days before the bill can be acted upon. Wouldn't do much, but with five days and some good staffers they might actually know what they are voting for, or against. (if he's asking for five days that's pretty bad)

Sometimes I think that they published that just to stir up controversy. Controversy is good for any media like that, because the more attention they attract, the better business gets. It runs the gamut from actual bigots who might like that cartoon, to people who wonder just what they'll do next. It's a win win either way. Sell papers.

And human nature being what it is, I don't find it surprising that some Black leaders would call for the curtailing of others' rights to free speech, something they should be ashamed to admit that they wouldn't have but by virtue of being in this country.

And what brought them here ? Oh what a tangled web has been woven. Reminders of past injustices are found, or put more aptly, actually sought by those who just seem to love being offended. Black and White alike.

I would fight to the death to uphold the rights of anyone pretty much, minorities included, but I refuse to engage in a fight to protect them from ridicule, whether real or percieved. They take to burning crosses in your front yard, I'll help find the sumbitches and pull their tit through the ringer, but something like this is not worth the trouble.

Racist or not, if we do not hang together we shall surely hang seperately.

But this is a stupid little thing, there are much bigger issues to deal with. There is still some measure of inequality in the world, and I am not an egalitarian by any stretch of the imagination.

At whatever risk involved, I am going to mention Jews, for whom I have alot more respect than people think. They had a saying, I think it was a Jew, and it was quite profound. Something like "They came for the Poles and noone said anything, they came for the _______s and nobody said anything and so forth, and then they came for me and there was noone left to say anything". I can't remember the exact quote but that's the jist of it.  In standing up for ourselves we must also stand up for others, as we expect them to stand up for us. Truer words have never been written.

I also remember another one about sticks and stones. Have no idea where it came from, but it puts the perspective on this issue quite quickly.

I mean what if they did mean Obama ? So what. If they did that just shows their stupidity, the Man is educated, was a seated senator and made it to the oval office. They didn't make it to the oval office. If I was Barack Obama and saw that I would probably laugh.

I have some friends who can be pretty harsh at times, and will satirise me and my actions when they think the time is ripe. It happens once in a while, and when it does, I laugh with them. (tough crowd I tell ya, tough crowd, but I like it that way).

Speaking of which, we have heard nothing from the horse's mouth so to speak. Has no reporter nor media worker asked Obama himself what he thought of this ? Fuck what Al Sharpton as to say, he was not the possible butt of the joke. Just what does Obama have to say about it ? I would be very interested to know.

T




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