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Honesty: The Key To Fantasy - 2/21/2009 2:35:52 PM   
lovingpet


Posts: 4270
Joined: 6/19/2005
Status: offline 		I was just peeking in on the thread about first posts being complaints and decided I needed to balance out my bitchiness a bit!  LOL  No, not really.  This has been something brewing for awhile and a talk last night just sent me over the edge with it and it is now ready for me to brandish.

First some background:  I ran into a very interesting personality here before Thanksgiving.  We did the whole email back and forth thing for a couple of weeks until schedules worked out to meet in person.  That is never an easy task with work, family, and holiday obligations, so a few weeks was rather a quick thing.  I was bored as I had not met but one other person here that really gave me the subly tinglies and not a one that had sent me into dommely orbit.  I was pretty bland about the whole thing and really didn't give a fig how it went.  He was caught between figuring it was going to be the same dead end path and really sensing that something was different with this one.

Long story short, we hit it off... really well.  We have visited with each other as often as possible since.  He has seen me through a hospital stay and all the hills and valleys of my health and family life.  I have been right there for him as he anticipates a major change in his career for the better, but still the anticipation and trepidation are there.  We don't just share about our day or what kinky things we want to do next time.  We share hopes, dreams, plans, and the whole thing.

Some time ago, I sent him a email telling him things that I just couldn't manage to say out loud.  Things that I wanted, fantasized about, that I could barely even write.  I was so afraid that was going to end everything.  I have a few areas where I can really bend to the extreme.  He soon wrote back and then called to reassure me that he was so glad I had opened up like that.

Now here comes the fun part, every time I look up, he has begun working on yet another one of those fantasies that I dared not speak.  We have started on the path of a few of them and others require a little more foundation to get off the ground.  It is almost like a bulleted list off that email, but he has woven it into our growth as a couple in such a seamless way that I barely know where it all originates.  It is a beautiful thing that I am lucky to be experiencing.

Here is what keeps me up a little at night.  This is what stirs my mind over and over again.  What if I had never sent that email?  What if I had just remained as silent observer in my own life and relationship?  He is clearly interested and wanting these things too, but would he have moved forward if I had not taken the first step and opened up in complete vulnerability?  Was it the raw and genuine honesty that lead him to be so determined to make these things happen... for me?  Would he have done such for his own fulfillment?  Is it a kind of reward unto itself that he bestows upon me for my leap of faith?

I know.  Enjoy it and don't overthink.  I am really trying not to.  At the same time, sometimes I think people have difficulty bringing fantasies to life.  Many times, my first thought is whether or not they are being honest with themselves about what they want, need, and desire.  My next is whether they have then communicated that to their partner.  When it comes to such things, is raw honesty the best policy (keeping in mind, I mean at an appropriate time, not just dumped on a person from the very start)?  Is there a point in time when it is just best to come before your partner with no pretense, shame, or recourse and offer them exactly who and what you are unscripted and unedited? 

Just some thoughts.

lovingpet 
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RE: Honesty: The Key To Fantasy - 2/21/2009 3:08:51 PM   
Leathersandals


Posts: 39
Joined: 1/20/2009
Status: offline 		I think it has to do with comfort level. It's not like you just told him those things right away, you had time to build a real bond with him (according to your message). I'm sure it also helped that you met him on this website, so you know he had at least an interest in the lifestyle.

Not even the best of couples match 100% on any one subject, much less fantasy; but it is the willingness to please one another and compromise that can make sure they are both fulfilled. People (that includes Doms) are not mind readers, and most would agree that they want their s/o (or slave) to be happy. We like to know these things.

So in other words good on your for sticking your neck out and gaining from it. I agree that 100% honesty is the best way.

-LS

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RE: Honesty: The Key To Fantasy - 2/21/2009 3:28:59 PM   
SirRussellP


Posts: 107
Joined: 1/10/2006
Status: offline 		It is part of developing trust.  As far as putting it all out there at the very beginning those should be known needs not fantasies. 

Just be glad that he is into your fantasies and be sure he is up to your needs.  Those needs are things that have to meet if the two of you will work long term as a couple. 

The key to a successful pairing is be open and honest.  What does it matter who opened themselves first, it just matters that you have.

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RE: Honesty: The Key To Fantasy - 2/21/2009 5:22:41 PM   
lovingpet


Posts: 4270
Joined: 6/19/2005
Status: offline 		I appreciate the input very much!  I hear so much of people talking about how to get their needs, wants, and fantasies met and it seems a recurrent theme that partners have not been honest.  I got lucky.  I wasn't going to disclose these things at all.  I just realized I didn't want to invest our emotions any further without them on the table.  I really believed they could make or break us.  Needs, well those matched well and we did well meeting those in each other's lives.  This was something entirely different to me.  It is rare I find a need shocking.  I can't say the same for fantasies.  They are, by nature, quite a bit more over the top and controversial.  I had had communications end over them before when discussing things in not nearly as open a fashion.  I really anticipated disaster.

True, it doesn't matter who did what first, but I am curious if people are more apt to go forward with fantasy things after a partner has revealed them than if not.  In my mind, a dominant may well go forward with something regardless as long as it doesn't appear to violate a clear boundary, but does it enbolden this process somehow to know what and how something is desired.  It may seem like a no brainer, but I feel sure different people would respond in different ways. 

How does honesty affect the likelihood that you will go forward with a fantasy?

lovingpet

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RE: Honesty: The Key To Fantasy - 2/21/2009 5:30:44 PM   
Andalusite


Posts: 2492
Joined: 1/25/2009
Status: offline 		I'm glad it's working out so well for you! I'm very honest about my needs and interests, but there are a lot of fantasies I'm actively *not* interested in actually playing out, and things I'd like to explore but don't particularly fantasise about.

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RE: Honesty: The Key To Fantasy - 2/21/2009 7:55:36 PM   
lighthearted


Posts: 1165
Joined: 11/26/2006
Status: offline 		expressing my fantasies to him ended up bringing us much closer together.  turned out we had both had things we wanted to do but hadn't expressed to each other.  the key was me being confident in myself to express it to him.  I felt that if he didn't share the fantasy, that was one thing.  but if he was going to judge me for it, well, that's another story.



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RE: Honesty: The Key To Fantasy - 2/21/2009 9:14:31 PM   
nafakcha


Posts: 81
Joined: 12/28/2008
From: Melbourne, FL
Status: offline 		Being able to express one's fantasies to their partner/s (including whether or not they are the kind you want to fulfill or not) is a beautiful thing. It takes an established level of trust and belief that you won't be judged for your fantasies. Fantasies can be so uniquely personal that without disclosing them to your partner/s its unrealistic to expect that they will ever be acted upon. (Obviously there are some common ones.) I know that I personally enjoy helping a partner experience a fantasy of theirs. It can be a very bonding and rewarding experience. Honest communication between partners is essential towards the survival of a relationship in general, not just in the context of fantasies.

Keiko

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RE: Honesty: The Key To Fantasy - 2/21/2009 9:52:12 PM   
Jeptha


Posts: 780
Joined: 9/18/2008
From: Portland, Oregon
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lovingpet

...Here is what keeps me up a little at night. This is what stirs my mind over and over again. What if I had never sent that email? What if I had just remained as silent observer in my own life and relationship? He is clearly interested and wanting these things too, but would he have moved forward if I had not taken the first step and opened up in complete vulnerability? Was it the raw and genuine honesty that lead him to be so determined to make these things happen... for me? Would he have done such for his own fulfillment? Is it a kind of reward unto itself that he bestows upon me for my leap of faith?...
What a great post!
My first guess is that your admission inspired him, sort of like an artist's muse...(if you'll pardon that perhaps slightly overwrought analogy.) It sounds like you have compatibly perverted imaginations, which is a gift - especially if you are both caring and considerate, and so able to go there together and come back safely.
Very lovely!

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RE: Honesty: The Key To Fantasy - 2/22/2009 3:52:50 AM   
kallisto


Posts: 1185
Status: offline 		By beiing open and honest with him, you gave him the option of going forward with the knowledge or of stopping the relationship because of your honesty.   Either way in my opinion, you made the right decision.   You felt as though you didn't want to put time and energy into the relationship without  telling him.   I applaud you for that.  Many people will go forward with an exception that if he brings it up, then I'll dicuss or I can just put them on the back burner and will make do.   Then the relationship hits a stalemate and it's because one or other was resentful because they felt they couldn't open up for fear of the relationship ending. 

Knowing the hows and whys and whatfors would definitely make me rethink something that I had before thought nothing about.   The feeling that it would give me knowing he had opened up to me from deep within would make me feel that we were definitely headed in the same direction.   Honesty is essential to any relationship's survival. 

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RE: Honesty: The Key To Fantasy - 2/22/2009 7:08:20 AM   
VeryNastyDom


Posts: 403
Joined: 9/23/2006
Status: offline 		You and your Dom might have arrived at the same place, but it could have taken months or years to get there.  Doms are men and we do not pick up on subtle hints as well as Dommes do.  Sometimes we even need a 2X4 upside the head to get our attention. 

The fact that you exposed yourself emotionally in that way is a wonderful thing, and I am sure your Dom appreciates it whether he has said so in those words or not.  You may also be assured that he saved that message and has a bulleted list somewhere in a secret place.

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RE: Honesty: The Key To Fantasy - 2/22/2009 7:53:02 AM   
kiwisub12


Posts: 4742
Joined: 1/11/2006
Status: offline 		I have lived through a lousy marraige, and an extended period of celibacy to come to a relationship that is everything that i could want - and part of why it is, is that i made a conscious decision (as did the OP) to be as honest as i could with my Sir.
It struck me as a waste of my time - and his - if i went into our relationship with a covert intent to conceal from him parts of my personality that were important to me. In the end, hiding parts of your self ends up in a relationship killer. How can your significant other address issues that are important if they know nothing about them?

If my hidden desires were so repugnant to him that they would be a  deal breaker, then best they be out in the open sooner than later, and save time for everyone.
i realise that some people consider their secrets to be so "odd" that others would recoil with horror, but wouldn't it be better to know this for sure? I think most of our secret desires are part and parcel of ourselves, and as such need to be acknowledged and cherished. Maybe not acted on , but at least acknowledged.

For me, this degree of transparency first exibited in my therapy, when i realised hiding anything from my therapist was just hurting myself. And he didn't run screaming from the room. Most of my nasty little secrets weren't anything unique to the human experience!

and yes -most men cannot read minds - as can't most women. So, really, its better to just communicate   -  oral, email, snail mail, carved on stone etc etc.

< Message edited by kiwisub12 -- 2/22/2009 7:55:24 AM >

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RE: Honesty: The Key To Fantasy - 2/22/2009 8:07:12 AM   
YoursMistress


Posts: 894
Joined: 12/17/2008
Status: offline 		You  should pat yourself on the back for having the desire and the courage to capture those things on "paper" and communicate them.  You should also thank whoever you thank for having a partner to want to bring them to life for you.  If you don;'t know it, you are likely experiencing a level of closeness and satisfaction that is vastly beyond reach for some of us at this time.  I wish I could do the same.  Perhaps with time and encouragement I will.  Thank you so much for sharing your story and please, don't forget...details    ;)

yours  

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May your service of love a beautiful thing; want nothing else, fear nothing else and let love be free to become what love truly is. -- Hadewijch of Antwerp

As a rule, I don't like to make general statements.

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RE: Honesty: The Key To Fantasy - 2/22/2009 11:04:44 AM   
lovingpet


Posts: 4270
Joined: 6/19/2005
Status: offline 		It has been an incredible experience so far!  He was able to bring me to a place where I trusted him just enough to tell him all these things.  It wasn't a place where I had the luxury of having to risk nothing.  I had to demonstrate my confidence in him.  It was a very poignant moment.  I guess that is another thought swirling around in my head.  I would make a safe bet that most dominants want full disclosure and honesty from their submissive, but how do you create that for him/her?  Is there a give and take that you expect?  Will you come the full distance or do you want your partner to have to step out on that ledge and let you catch him/her at the bottom? 

I think this is a very worthy discussion and I am loving all the input coming out of this thread!  I look forward to hearing more!

lovingpet

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RE: Honesty: The Key To Fantasy - 2/22/2009 11:49:43 AM   
antipode


Posts: 1787
Joined: 4/19/2004
Status: offline
quote:

Is there a point in time when it is just best to come before your partner with no pretense, shame, or recourse and offer them exactly who and what you are unscripted and unedited?


That is kind of the old argument, how vulnerable do you want to be? You hit it just right, and congrats for that, and enjoy, but in general, I think when you aren't honest about who you are and what you are looking for you're lying into your own pocket. Even if that leads to nothingness, that's still preferable over fakery, don't you think?

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RE: Honesty: The Key To Fantasy - 2/22/2009 1:34:14 PM   
feydeplume


Posts: 935
Joined: 12/24/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lovingpet
Will you come the full distance or do you want your partner to have to step out on that ledge and let you catch him/her at the bottom? 

I think this is a very worthy discussion and I am loving all the input coming out of this thread!  I look forward to hearing more!

lovingpet


Right there, in that sentiment is the heartbeat of a deep relationship (whatever flavor). When you risk it all for love of self (telling the REAL truths about yourself) and trusting that someone will catch you and lift you up. I think we take for granted how often people DO tell most of their dreams and in BDSM we sort of demand that each person pony's up at some stuff. It is when you take it past that, to the details that the trust gets so deep that, welll it makes me all teary eyed and warm just thinking about it.


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RE: Honesty: The Key To Fantasy - 2/22/2009 3:59:19 PM   
outlier


Posts: 1111
Joined: 10/22/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lovingpet

It has been an incredible experience so far! He was able to bring me to a place where I trusted him just enough to tell him all these things. It wasn't a place where I had the luxury of having to risk nothing. I had to demonstrate my confidence in him. It was a very poignant moment. I guess that is another thought swirling around in my head. I would make a safe bet that most dominants want full disclosure and honesty from their submissive, but how do you create that for him/her? Is there a give and take that you expect? Will you come the full distance or do you want your partner to have to step out on that ledge and let you catch him/her at the bottom?

I think this is a very worthy discussion and I am loving all the input coming out of this thread! I look forward to hearing more!

lovingpet Emphasis Added



Thank you for this insightful post. I agree fully with what you
are saying here. And throughout this post.
I have some comments in my profile about this:

"What I seek is the intensely personal and private thing that lives
in the exchange of the giving and trust by the submissive and the
focus, imagination, sensitivity and caring of the dominant."

"I am willing to accept the responsibility for making the intimate
decisions in our relationship; but intimacy requires two, the situation
demands open, honest, respectful feedback. If your idea of a dominant
is the storybook always perfect mind reader than I am not for you."

I think intimacy is much more about the bond than any impliments or toys.
And I believe it is what the two of you build not what you discover or fall into.

Congradulations. I hope the two of you build something wonderful for a long
long time.

Outlier



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"A happy sex life may take years to achieve, but it’s worth it in the long run.
Worth the time, the thought - or rather, the thoughtfulness - and, often,
the waiting." Pete Seeger

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RE: Honesty: The Key To Fantasy - 2/23/2009 12:19:46 AM   
Prinsexx


Posts: 4584
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline 		Yes I agree. In general people have difficulties nringing fantasies into life. But those fantasies depend very much upon exposure: what I mwan is that the internet and pornography and mass media have expanded the content of bdsm/sex for many lifestyle practitioners and for those for whom bdsm would otherwise have remained always in the arena of fantasy.
Trace the 'clicks' and those who use the internet will willingly expose themselves to ever increasing stimulation and removal from real life.
It is exactly that 'removal' from real life which defines fantasy in my opinion.
Certain fantasies are better when operationalised into real time.
Certain fantasies are better left in the realm of fantasy forever.
And every one is capable of breaking taboos within fantasy land.
As I grow, as I mature I fantasise less and less and am more and more driven to carry stuff out real time. Finding doms willing to do this is not the issue for me. My issue might be where do I draw the line?
Honesty, to be honest, isn't always the best policy. That;s the paradox.


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RE: Honesty: The Key To Fantasy - 2/23/2009 4:14:49 PM   
lovingpet


Posts: 4270
Joined: 6/19/2005
Status: offline 		Wow, there is a lot to respond to!  Again, I would like to thank everyone for their insights.  It has been very interesting reading and I am enjoying evaluating a real life experience at this level. 

I find that a lot of times the lie is not really intentional.  It is more of a matter of not being able to face self and trying to hold on to a person and reality that has long since changed.  I think I would say I have become someone that I would have found to be abhorrent not that long ago.  To accept that person meant having to change the way I thought about a great many things. I had to understand how this person and that one related to each other.  How they were both still me.  It is in this battle I believe a great many lose relationships because they just cannot cross certain lines despite all their desire to do so.  They cannot admit things and that soon leads to an impasse for their partner.  If you know someone wants and even needs to cross a boundary they have set, how much will you push or drag them to the other side?  If it goes well, then great.  If not, then trust has been broken and that much needed thing becomes even further out of reach.

That's just it.  Without that leap of faith, how does a partner know to proceed?  Where he/she should go?  We want to keep on building this trust, not ruin it with speculation, which is the end result of not opening up and being honest.

I find a great deal of wisdom in this idea that fantasies sometimes do need to stay just that.  This is juxaposed against the idea that simply sharing even those things allows a deeper insight into a partners desires, motivations, and tolerences.  Sharing something does not mean you want to do it.  It means that it is a part of you that has life and depth and form deserving of attention.  It is representative if not literal.  I like to know about things like this because, to me, it is a tell.  It shows me a quirk in the psyche that I can explore, even if not in the way it was presented.

I don't know where I stand anymore on drawing lines.  I have erased them and redrew them so many times, I wonder if it really matters.  What has happened is that parameters have been designed around me, for my well being by him.  He knows just where to place them.  I have a few things that are not up for debate.  They are extreme phobias and certain things that cause flooding negative memories, but on the whole, I do not interfere with his plans for me.  I trust him to both challenge and protect me, even from myself.

lovingpet

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