Frontline: Inside the meltdown (Full Version)

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DedicatedDom40 -> Frontline: Inside the meltdown (2/20/2009 6:08:34 PM)


http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/meltdown/view/

Interesting to watch how Paulson, the Bush Administration's most staunch supporter of "moral hazard" (principle to resist bailing out the screwups), ended up being the most changed man through the whole ordeal.

The one failure incident allowed under Paulson's moral hazard approach (Lehman) was the key trigger to credit markets freezing overnight, which as we know has subsequently led to the $700B toxic asset bailout and even more federal ownership. It was sad to see Paulson, as laissez-faire and powerful as he was, eventually having to bite the bullet and accept defeat. And it makes it all the more humorous to listen to some of our forum particpants with all their armchair quarterbacking still promote the same non-intervention principle, something that Paulson and the full weight of what he represented could not continue to do. Noise without knowledge.

Also take note how things became circus-like once Congress became involved, and which side of the aisle generally wore the clown paint. All those speeches on the House and Senate floors by representatives who were grandstanding for their middle class constituents on Paulson's original principle, but without possessing much of an inside picture.

This train wreck will cast some serious light on the problem of globalized and interconnected financial markets that lack the most rudimentary of firewalls. We aren't but a quarter of the way through this fisaco, the ending is yet to be written, and the outcome may well be quite a shock to many pro-globaliztion supporters.  It sure has shocked Paulson, who found out his lifelong capitalism principles and "not too big to fail" tactics sure don't work when we already are too globalized, interconnected and too big to fail.





corysub -> RE: Frontline: Inside the meltdown (2/21/2009 12:17:22 AM)

Frontline's documentary was well done in bringing some clarity to how the financial crisis we are living through could put us into depression. The story has yet to be fully told and financial historians will have a timeline that goes back 30 years previous to find the seeds that grew into the huge weeping willow we have today. 
For a couple of decades derivative products drove the growth of real estate markets providing a "global source" of capital available to the real estate market. Huge money has an insatiable appetite for above average returns.  Mortgage Backed Securities presented a dream come true...a diversified portfolio of mortgages would cushion any risk, and the strong real estate market only would serve to enhance the credit of the underlying assets, and getting an 8% yield in a 5% market wet their appetites to the point of gluttony.
Banks are always vulnerable to crashing.  Their business is "lending" but now that lending could be done by investment banks with unprecedented leveraging of balance sheets..with 30-35 to one leverage. Just a 3% move in asset value...and your toast!

It is incomprehensible to me that Paulson could not have suspected that following the possiblity that Bear, Stearns counter-party issues could collapse the financial markets if a deal could not be struck, to let Lehman Brothers fail would be a multiple in terms of the impact, freeze up global credit markets, and bring trading to a grinding halt. The documentary kinda glosses over the view that maybe Paulson being "angry at Lehman's Dick Fuld could be traced to "other things in his past"..but stopped short of saying that that past was as an agressive rival of Lehman when he headed Goldman, Sachs.  That is another part of the story that has yet to be told. Once the iconic House of Lehman was allowed to fail, it was like releasing vials of financial bubonic plague around the world...The system could not survive a collapse of AIG, and the resultant counter party issues that the largest insurer in the United States would present.  It also happens that one of those largest parties was Goldman, Sachs!

I won't replay the entire documentary but I also feel that if one was to be fair..more pols than a Barney Frank, one of the architects of the forcing of banks to lend to people who normally could not afford to buy homes, Barney Frank, along with Maxine Waters who beat up officials whose only job was to provide oversight of Fannie Mae and FreddieMac, when they appeared before the House with  a grim report on the extreme risks that those GSE's were taking with their balance sheets in the sub-prime area. 

"You had a conservative secretary of the Treasury and conservative administration. There was right-wing criticism over Bear Stearns," says Congressman Barney Frank (D-Mass.), chairman of the House Financial Services Committee.


Chris Dodd gets to swing his bat too...the guy who yesterday caused the decline in the markets by his irresponsible comments about Bank of America and the banking system in general possibly haveing to be "nationalized".  Here is a guy that has no clue but is just another of the political animals that survive in the jungle that is Washington.  And also a guy with a sticky mortgage issue in his personal finances.

The only republican voice heard was that of Paulson.  When other republicans were shown speaking from the floor of the House they were "introduced" in the documentary with the observations "all those people going before cameras to "pontificate".  A bit one sided view, dontcha think. 

Again, although there was a clear political message in this show overall it was well done presented an easily understood history of recent events and an explanation of MBS and CDS instruments.   However, just as the seeds of the depression were sown in the early 1920's, interested observers should also do heir own research and/or wait for further historical documentaries that might be a little more balanced than one produced by WGBB, and with a timeline on this issue that goes back beyond 2008 with as full a review of how we got here.





Hippiekinkster -> RE: Frontline: Inside the meltdown (2/21/2009 1:20:08 AM)

Outstanding post. Thank you.

If people who were actually in possession of as much data and knowledge as it was possible for one person to assimilate, and who made decisions based on such knowledge, come humbly to the altar of  "we fucked up", what does that say about those who shrilly and without any clue whatsoever continue to shreik at the top of their lungs, "NO Regulation! regulation BAD!!! If they fucked up, it just means they weren't really Goldwater Republicans and were secretely Communists or members of the Council on Foreign Relations/Illuminati or some such goofy shit.

Look, righties. Time to suck it up. Your philosophy has proven to be a collosal disaster. IT DON'T WORK! Now the people who want things to work out will do what needs to be done, without regard to some moronic economic or political philosophy, and we'll all get through this. Except, evidently, merc, who seems to be married to the idea that he has achieved his place in life (one notes that he is no closer to the powers that be than I am) all by himself, without any help whatsoever. (if it seems like I am giving him a hard time, well, goddamn right. NONE of us got to where we are all by our little lonesomes.) (my step-brother likes to entertain the same delusion, except I know he had to kill some little brown people in Viet Nam to get to where he is).

I hope we will see more people come forward and accept responsibility. But we all know the psychopath GWB simply cannot take responsibility for his fucked-up fuckups. How in the fuck did you Righties elect such a sick fuck? never mind, I know the answer.




UPSG -> RE: Frontline: Inside the meltdown (2/21/2009 10:33:00 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster
NONE of us got to where we are all by our little lonesomes...


I know this is something of a thread drift, but while I'm all for private ownership and I enjoy some of the benefits of capitalism, you have to wonder sometimes, if the more primitive tribal and chiefdom societies of the Amerindians where more progressive than we are today, when it comes to nurturing fraternalism among members of its nations?

Andrew Hacker who has studied at both Oxford and Princeton has this to say in his book Two Nations last copyrighted 2003.

pp. 39-40
quote:

America has always been the most competitive of societies.  It poises its citizens against one another with the warning that they must make it on their own.  Hence the stress on the moving past others, driven by a fear of falling behind.  No other nation so rates its residents as winners or losers

quote:

Even allowing for interludes like the New Deal and the Great Society, government is expected to take on obligations only as a late and last resort.  Hence the presence in the United States of more violent crime, more of its people in prison, more homeless families and individuals, more children created virtually by accident, more fatal addiction and disease, more dirt and disorder - why prolong the list? - than any other nation deemed industrially advanced and socially civilized.






DedicatedDom40 -> RE: Frontline: Inside the meltdown (2/21/2009 3:34:55 PM)

One point to take away is how all the new twists caused by globalism has pretty much eclipsed the capitalism solution anymore. 

The story here isnt about what George Bush did, or what Fannie and Freddie did, or what Greenspan did many years ago. The real story is how we have ventured so far down this globalism road that capitalist principles no longer fix whats wrong when things go wrong.  We had to socialize the solution not by choice, but by necessity.  THAT is scary.

Personally, I associate globalism more with socialism than capitalism. Capitalism is about the smart and the stong winning over the lazy and the dumb. Yet, globalism is about driving everyone towards one world-sized economy and an equalized standard of living.  Isn't that a conflict of principle? 







corysub -> RE: Frontline: Inside the meltdown (2/21/2009 3:43:53 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster

Outstanding post. Thank you.

If people who were actually in possession of as much data and knowledge as it was possible for one person to assimilate, and who made decisions based on such knowledge, come humbly to the altar of  "we fucked up", what does that say about those who shrilly and without any clue whatsoever continue to shreik at the top of their lungs, "NO Regulation! regulation BAD!!! If they fucked up, it just means they weren't really Goldwater Republicans and were secretely Communists or members of the Council on Foreign Relations/Illuminati or some such goofy shit.

Look, righties. Time to suck it up. Your philosophy has proven to be a collosal disaster. IT DON'T WORK! Now the people who want things to work out will do what needs to be done, without regard to some moronic economic or political philosophy, and we'll all get through this. Except, evidently, merc, who seems to be married to the idea that he has achieved his place in life (one notes that he is no closer to the powers that be than I am) all by himself, without any help whatsoever. (if it seems like I am giving him a hard time, well, goddamn right. NONE of us got to where we are all by our little lonesomes.) (my step-brother likes to entertain the same delusion, except I know he had to kill some little brown people in Viet Nam to get to where he is).

I hope we will see more people come forward and accept responsibility. But we all know the psychopath GWB simply cannot take responsibility for his fucked-up fuckups. How in the fuck did you Righties elect such a sick fuck? never mind, I know the answer.


I know times are tough for most of us these days.  I hope I understand you correctly but based on how I read this post...and your tag...but are you talking about Capitalism failing...or GWB just being someone I don't think you appreciate at all based on your comments.  Anyone in his right mind knows that socialism is a failure...so I guess you must be talking about GWB.  Ok..I get the point you are hysterically venting becaues you disagree with the man's politics.  Understandable...but take it easy...have a brewski and relax. We have more problems today...and even more coming tomorrow that we should be trying to find solutions than go back over eight years with 20/20 perfect hindsight. It is what it is...and in four years we'll see another guy or maybe a gal from "Alaska" move into the White House, and I'll be writing four letter words about Barack.  Such is life.




Lorr47 -> RE: Frontline: Inside the meltdown (2/21/2009 6:35:17 PM)

quote:

Frontline's documentary was well done in bringing some clarity to how the financial crisis we are living through could put us into depression.


Nice post..




LookieNoNookie -> RE: Frontline: Inside the meltdown (2/21/2009 6:41:12 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster

Look, righties. Time to suck it up. Your philosophy has proven to be a collosal disaster. IT DON'T WORK!


(Actually, it worked quite well. Just not for everyone).




Vendaval -> RE: Frontline: Inside the meltdown (2/22/2009 1:31:59 AM)

Decicated Dom 40, thank you for the head's up.  I should have time to watch this Sunday afternoon.




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