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pure bottoming - 2/19/2009 12:20:12 PM

OmegaG

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I got to thinking today as I was reading through the posts about bottoming, submitting and if there can be a relationship when the bottom/submissive/slave is really without any type of input on how things should go.

the s type can bring materials to the D type that he/she wants considered. He/she can show them erotica that tickles their fancy, show them toys they like or even gift them with implements to be used for their pleasure.

And I know that there are D types that will say that they have the final say in what toys will be used or what activities will occure, but most do take imput from their partners.

Even during play specific ways of answering ("Yes, Sir", or "as you wish", rather then "if that is what you want...?") lets the top know how the bottom feels, even the moans, movements and reactions belay where the head is at.

So from the overt to the subtle, even though their partner is making the decisions, those decisions are not without some thought to the imput and feedback they are recieving so the bottom is taking part in the decisions.

So I know in the strictest sense that topping from the bottom means overt communications that spell out how the bottom wants to be done, but I don't think that there are any reactions that are void of any indications that express the bottoms point of view and it does affect the decision making process of the top.

And now that I've rambled these thoughts out that seem to make perfect sense in my head, I'm wondering if I should lay off the cold medicine?

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RE: pure bottoming - 2/19/2009 12:57:31 PM

agirl

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It all sounds like information, to me. You can't *top from the bottom* unless someone lets you. I don't know why people get so hung up on it.

If waggling your arse in the air gets it fucked or spanked and you hoped it would, you're a happy bunny. If you do the same and it doesn't , then you're a bit of a disappointed bunny. But does it matter?

agirl

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RE: pure bottoming - 2/19/2009 12:59:50 PM

thetammyjo

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Oh, I thought from your title this was about bottoming without the need to add Ds to the mix... I've done the top only route especially when I was learning SM and bondage techniques and the bottoms who helped me learn were not submissive to me nor did I need them to be.

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RE: pure bottoming - 2/19/2009 1:27:14 PM

feydeplume

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I too thought this was about bottoming. as for the actual question...

if there can be a relationship when the bottom/submissive/slave is really without any type of input on how things should go. Yes at least for one scene and until the bottom calls safeword, the sub stops flying and safewords, and the slave well that is open to LOTS of debate so i am not going there.
even the moans, movements and reactions belay where the head is at. but at that point, until safe words are used, it is about what the top WANTS to give and what the b/s/s is able or willing to receive. The T/D/M doesn't have to go by those signals to give more of what the b/s/s is wanting.
the bottom is taking part in the decisions. In a semantics sense, the bottom has the final and total decision process. A bottom tends to approach a Top and say "I want this and that, will you do it?" and during scene the bottom will use more words and stuff to make it clear to the top what they want and how. (hehe Beige anyone)
the strictest sense that topping from the bottom means overt communications that spell out how the bottom wants to be done. In one sense, yes that is true, in that the the bottom (S&M sense) does decide what the Top will do. BUT topping from the bottom, the phrase, is NOT an S&M term so much. It is more of a d/s term, or has been taken over by d/s and given a negative spin to mean that they s/s is manipulating in a passive aggressive way (argue this one all you want) thier D/M into not filling the D/M's needs or wants and ONLY filling the needs of the s/s.

Does that help?

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RE: pure bottoming - 2/19/2009 2:00:35 PM

OmegaG

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FR

I had hoped to have a fun discussion, but something happened IRL that took my desire away. Sorry.

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Regret for the things we did can be tempered by time; it is regret for the things we did not do that is inconsolable. Sydney J. Harris

Sex without pain is like food without taste.
- de Sade

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RE: pure bottoming - 2/19/2009 2:07:20 PM

feydeplume

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no worries! it can be a topic for another day or we/you can go searching for all the threads that have covered this linguistic schism here on CM. IF it is of real interest to you, hit the web and go for the second or third page of links and you will find some incredible answers for and against and sideways.

some people i knew used to have a (coffee) drinking game based on usurping terms from one thing to another. It was buckets of fun (and buckets of pee since you had to drink the whole cup of coffee if you couldn't keep up)

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RE: pure bottoming - 2/20/2009 1:26:45 PM

DesFIP

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quote:

ORIGINAL: feydeplume

the strictest sense that topping from the bottom means overt communications that spell out how the bottom wants to be done. In one sense, yes that is true, in that the the bottom (S&M sense) does decide what the Top will do. BUT topping from the bottom, the phrase, is NOT an S&M term so much. It is more of a d/s term, or has been taken over by d/s and given a negative spin to mean that they s/s is manipulating in a passive aggressive way (argue this one all you want) thier D/M into not filling the D/M's needs or wants and ONLY filling the needs of the s/s.

Does that help?

I disagree that it means manipulating the top to not fulfill the top's desires but only the bottom's. There are plenty of tops who believe that any communication by the bottom is the dreaded tftb. That any attempt by the bottom to get his or her needs met in addition to meeting the top's needs is tftb. Of course, these tops are usually unpartnered and for good reason.

There's a thread somewhere floating about that has a top breaking off communication when his mainly online sub, who he has only met in r/l a handful of times refused to agree to no limits and no safeword. She wasn't trying to stop him from getting his needs met, she just wanted hers as well including her need for no other people, no permanent marks etc.

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