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I need to cut on online conversations - 2/13/2009 3:55:53 PM   
LordDarkPleasure


Posts: 91
Joined: 4/26/2005
Status: offline 		I recently came to an odd realization regarding online conversations, and I'm wondering how to actually correct such an issue.  The issue is that I actually look too "awesome" online for my own good.  yeah it sounds arrogant, but keep reading and you'll understand.

I'm a 27 years old Dom, which means usually people interested in talking to me are 18-26 years old sub women.  This generally means they're often quite new to the  BDSM scene.  Obviously their situation is usually that they have BDSM oriented urges, but do not understand them yet.  Over time I have informed myself quite well on the various fields of interests of the subs I came across.  Now, the most common discussion (by common, I mean usually what pops up on those genuine conversations that I get to have every month or so) is a new sub thinking she must be weird because she has X kinks.

Then of course I will answer that she has X kink probably because of past experience Y and that she's probably having Z fantasies too.  Then they go "whoa, did you go in my head or something?" and that's the moment where things get problematic.  I amaze them because I give them insight on themselves they didn't know about, and they start idealizing me in their head. 

Then it comes up in various ways, but one way or another there is a disappointment if I meet the said person a disappointment is bound to come up.  Usually in the form of me not acting exactly in the way she idealized, but that being to the point where I don't act in the way she imagined I would behave but she never mentionned anything about it.

Now that I have realized that this actually happens, besides warning the sub about that pitfall, the only thing I can think of is really to cut on the online talk and meet the person face to face as soon as possible....  Have you guys had a similar issue?  What did you do to correct the situation?
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: I need to cut on online conversations - 2/13/2009 4:02:25 PM   
feydeplume


Posts: 935
Joined: 12/24/2008
Status: offline 		Play with older subs that have more realistic expectations? (falls over laughing at THAT one)...

No seriously, maybe change the approach to telling said young ladies that their fantasy grouping is common and suggesting some reading material for them? in other words take a more dispassionate approach when they start to over attach to you online.

Just a thought.


_____________________________

Wait! Are those my pants?
If it has testicle or tires, it's gonna give you the fidgets.
Pretend I said something witty and laugh.

(in reply to LordDarkPleasure)
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RE: I need to cut on online conversations - 2/13/2009 4:02:57 PM   
Serenelysmiles


Posts: 46
Joined: 11/7/2008
Status: offline 		You try to keep from creating unrealistic expectations beforehand, and spend enough time talking to make sure that You are compatible with the other person, and I mean actually talking as opposed to chatting online.  Online conversation is far too two dimensional for really getting to know another person, and often, though we all know better, it leaves things open to interpretation, and often too many assumptions are made.  I'm, actually, in favor of meeting quickly to try to reduce these things, but it can sometimes be too difficult in some circumstances (people are shy, new, timid, too far, etc).  The biggest thing that one can do is to make sure that You don't misrepresent Yourself in any way.  Always be honest, and always be Yourself.   Good Luck.

_____________________________

Peace, love and light.

Namaste',

serene

"Though art to me a delicious torment." ~Ralph Waldo Emerson~

"Wit is well-bred insolence."~Aristotle~

(in reply to LordDarkPleasure)
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RE: I need to cut on online conversations - 2/13/2009 4:11:44 PM   
lovingpet


Posts: 4270
Joined: 6/19/2005
Status: offline 		Idealizing someone is a bad idea.  This problem rests more with the submissive than with you.  My question would be why it seems this kind of woman is who you seem to gravitate toward.  I understand given your age sometimes there is a fair few that are suitable for conversation much less more, but you are drawing a certain subset as well.  I also have to wonder if part of it lies in the whole fantasy being idealized and not just you.  Until some real experience occurs, the whole thing can get pretty overblown and unrealistic. 

It may be that there is something that attracts you to training new submissives.  It just means that you will need to learn how to deal with all this constructively.  I would engage the potential submissive with very realistic discussions about various aspects, especially ones that are intense kinks.  Bring it down out of the fantasy world they have painted for themselves.  You will come back down to earth with them.  Perhaps rather than letting your experience lead you to jumping right to the chase, lead them to discover these things on their own.  It will help them feel more accepting of these new feelings inside them as they begin to understand what it all means and leaves you a bit less mystical.  The method you are using is wonderful for times when a submissive is holding back or not accepting something you know they want.  It is confrontational and really does mess with the mind.  This is good when you want to push a submissive to face themselves, but it is bad when it allows the submissive to transfere the responsibility for her awakening to you.  Some tasks really just cannot be done by anyone else expect oneself. 

I wish you the best!  Please realize that for the most part I am just giving my view and have no idea if these suggestions will help you or not. 

lovingpet   

(in reply to LordDarkPleasure)
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RE: I need to cut on online conversations - 2/13/2009 6:50:29 PM   
antipode


Posts: 1787
Joined: 4/19/2004
Status: offline
quote:

odd realization regarding online conversations


This is not a function of your presentation, but a demonstration of how limited online conversation is - my hobby horse.

If you talk to someone you don't know using a chat facility, all of the information you normally get across physically - facial expressions, tactile, body language, pupil size, even smell, and so on - are absent. Researchers at UCLA have come to the conclusion that only 7% of communication between people is verbal. I fully subscribe to this, having converted tens of thousands of employees over to an email / chat combination. Chatting can be an effective way of communication between people who know each other, and therefore fill in the non-verbal stuff from memory. I have completely given up on chatting in the initial phase of making someone's acquaintance - it is, 98% of the time, a complete waste of time.

(in reply to LordDarkPleasure)
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RE: I need to cut on online conversations - 2/13/2009 7:52:55 PM   
kiwisub12


Posts: 4742
Joined: 1/11/2006
Status: offline 		Cut the chat - met them as soon as possible.  Be human.  Admit frailties.  If you make a connection, all the better for you.
The more on-line you do with an individual the more two dimensional you become.

(in reply to antipode)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: I need to cut on online conversations - 2/13/2009 7:55:02 PM   
StrongSpirit


Posts: 575
Joined: 4/10/2005
Status: offline 		Human beings are fallible.   If you are coming off too 'good' via chat, try a little bit more honesty.

Mention that, no you don't have a lot of XP doing Y, but your willing to learn and it sounds like fun.


(in reply to antipode)
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RE: I need to cut on online conversations - 2/13/2009 10:24:21 PM   
QuixoticErrant


Posts: 260
Joined: 2/1/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: feydeplume

Play with older subs that have more realistic expectations? (falls over laughing at THAT one)...

No seriously, maybe change the approach to telling said young ladies that their fantasy grouping is common and suggesting some reading material for them? in other words take a more dispassionate approach when they start to over attach to you online.

Just a thought.



That is very good advice.  I was going to say something similar, but you beat me to it.

(in reply to feydeplume)
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RE: I need to cut on online conversations - 2/14/2009 5:20:06 AM   
MissEnchanted


Posts: 510
Status: offline 		LDP,

I can relate to those issues you shared and I have found that talking on the phone, and then meeting asap is what works best for me. Otherwise way too much of my valuable time is wasted online.

I chat online for about 30 minutes, Then when I have asked the most pertinent questions and I have a green light: I call them with my number blocked.

I like to meet someone within 3 weeks as that pops the 'major fantasy expectations' bubble that newbies tend to have. Also, if you share less in chat: You can blow their minds when you finally meet and get into their minds when you are face to face.
And some are far away so it can take years before we finally meet. However I only do that with people I have checked out and know they are 'real'

I have found chatting with newbies online to be a big time waster and also look for people who show the courage to show up, Otherwise they are just wasting my precious time.

Some people have a lot of time to blow and like to chat online forever.

I'd rather play!

Hope this helps.



(in reply to LordDarkPleasure)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: I need to cut on online conversations - 2/14/2009 5:30:05 AM   
subtlebutterfly


Posts: 2230
Joined: 6/15/2008
From: Not your hood
Status: offline 		Yeah I don't recommend long "onling chatty relationships" if it's supposed to be developing into something more than friendship. However I need to disagree with lovingpet, EVERYBODY idealizes. It's in the human nature, however it varies how much a person idealizes somebody.
I mean seriously, lets say you see the pic of somebody you're talking to and they're like this big, tall, muscly, bear type. You don't really expect them to sound like a eunuch, yet maybe you meet them without having talked to them over the phone or whateva, and then this biiiiig guy appears, opens his mouth and his voice is so squeaky highpitched that one might think he was a 4 year old kid.  I guess it's an extreme example but my main point is, everybody idealizes.

I've bumped into it i.e. when it comes to pictures! There's this fun guy, average lookin, loves the outdoors,  naivy pilot dude, loves doin activities in the water, sounds very active yariyariyariyari    ...so you actually do get this kind of mental idea of what the person might look like, then he says what meals he loves n you think like uhoh ok a few extra pounds maybe but nothin bad..  and then you finally get a pic of a big, overweight, ugly dude with a mustache.        I didn't idealize THAT much but it was like a complete jawdrop. It's just a fact that sometimes people just sound way different than they really are, even though they may not be trying to sound any different.


< Message edited by subtlebutterfly -- 2/14/2009 5:35:33 AM >

(in reply to MissEnchanted)
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RE: I need to cut on online conversations - 2/14/2009 5:36:03 AM   
CatdeMedici


Posts: 2257
Joined: 10/20/2008
Status: offline 		I really walked away this morning to ponder this post before I responded and 4 hours later, it still irritates Me:

quote:

The issue is that I actually look too "awesome" online for my own good.  yeah it sounds arrogant..


Yep, that's probably one of the most arrogant things I've heard lately---better be sure you have two bathrooms so you don't have to share the mirror.
 
quote:

is a new sub thinking she must be weird because she has X kinks. Then of course I will answer that she has X kink probably because of past experience Y and that she's probably having Z fantasies too.  Then they go "whoa, did you go in my head or something?" and that's the moment where things get problematic.  I amaze them because I give them insight on themselves they didn't know


You have fallen for the oldest trick in the book, "we'll feed back what xxx says because it will look as if i am really compatible"--it's called bait. They throw out the line, you took the bait.
 
No wonder you are having disappointing meetings (A) maybe because your aren't as awesome as you think you are and (B)-feeding information like that simply creates the illusion of perfection. Presuming to know why someone is why they are and using it as an assumptive IMHO is foolish, it lumps ALL people with X into the same psychological or physiological bucket.
 
Maybe more reality based conversations and a little less "Sleeping Beauty" to save disappointments in the long run.

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I am the Cat, holder of the whip and chair.

"Let's see-whips, dips, chains, chips, yep sounds like a party to Me!"

(in reply to LordDarkPleasure)
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RE: I need to cut on online conversations - 2/14/2009 5:36:10 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		A large number of women in that age range have, what I call, the romance novel syndrome. They like, they WANT, to create an ideal in their mind. All too often they create unrealistic expectations of what a partner should be. The internet is just a current day romance novel to them.

Unfortunately, many of these young women will go from one relationship to another, constantly disappointed in the reality, and blame the other person. I don't think the medium is as much to blame as their fantasy of what a relationship and partner, should be.

Add in some of the false romantic notion that has been created of BDSM and the handsome male dominant, and you have a recipe for failure.

I don't know that lessening your chat time prior to meeting will make a huge change, though it will help. I think the change has to come from the expectations of the young women.

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to LordDarkPleasure)
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RE: I need to cut on online conversations - 2/14/2009 6:15:40 AM   
feydeplume


Posts: 935
Joined: 12/24/2008
Status: offline 		From all that i have heard and seen, it is not limited to young women. Young men act from the same place. Newbie-itis is not gender nor D or s specific. The wild, exaggerated image that the newbie attaches to their first meeting seems to happen no matter what anyone tries to do, if the newbie starts off with fantasies and daydreams.

How often have female D's had to deal with "i thought you would be dressed all in latex and 6 feet tall" or "so, i'm done with my cofee. Are you going to beat my ass and fuck me now?"

How often do male and female subs face "Aren't you supposed to not make eye contact with me?" or bizarrely bossy attitudes and demands?

Newbies, handle with care cuz they are hell on the ego and tend to make you WANT to beat them, right then and there, no matter what side of the whip you like.  

_____________________________

Wait! Are those my pants?
If it has testicle or tires, it's gonna give you the fidgets.
Pretend I said something witty and laugh.

(in reply to LaTigresse)
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RE: I need to cut on online conversations - 2/14/2009 6:35:08 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		That is very likely. I just haven't any experience with the male version. I would imagine the disallusion would be different however. The males I would guess are more fetish, sexual image, oriented. Where I would say, from my experience, the female version is more of the romance novel, knight in shining armour, version.

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to feydeplume)
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RE: I need to cut on online conversations - 2/14/2009 6:37:41 AM   
IrishMist


Posts: 7480
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline 		Meet face to face as soon as possible.

Badda-Bing

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If I said something to offend you, please tell me what it was so that I can say it again later.


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RE: I need to cut on online conversations - 2/14/2009 7:25:18 AM   
feydeplume


Posts: 935
Joined: 12/24/2008
Status: offline 		But that romance novel thing that some women do IS their fetish and sexual image. In both cases, it is all about sexual fantasy, yes with different words (probably because it is more acceptable for males to want particular acts and voice that want while female are socially pressured to want a process rather than an act), but what they are asking for and why they feel let down by reality is pretty much the same thing.

"Real" doesn't have the cool costumes, especially at the coffee shop (unless they are goths?), and the people are not magically whisked away to the perfect setting, be it dungeon or castle or Bedouin tent for amazing sex.




_____________________________

Wait! Are those my pants?
If it has testicle or tires, it's gonna give you the fidgets.
Pretend I said something witty and laugh.

(in reply to LaTigresse)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: I need to cut on online conversations - 2/14/2009 9:13:36 AM   
lovingpet


Posts: 4270
Joined: 6/19/2005
Status: offline 		I meant more along the line of a very extreme idealism.  We all get some notion in our heads about a person based upon the information we receive.  That is different.  I am talking about the big, sleepy, rolling fantasy land that comes with newness to anything.  It is just over the top and not even remotely real.  Bursting the bubble appropriately is one way to avoid disappointment. 

And I did not mention it earlier because it did not occur to me, but I am all for meeting and greeting as soon as possible as well.  Sometimes there are things that prevent this, but it is rare.  I tend to keep things pretty superficial and general until I have met and connected with a person.  It is just my preferred way of doing things.  That being said, I had an incredible meeting and play with someone with whom we chatted for month despite only living about two hours away.  One of those extenuating circumstances, but we were not able to stay away from deeper conversations for long.  I had NO disappointment.   Then again I went in assuming it was all going to wind up a mess, so I guess that is a difference in expectations.

lovingpet

(in reply to subtlebutterfly)
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RE: I need to cut on online conversations - 2/14/2009 12:42:19 PM   
manxcat


Posts: 673
Joined: 10/3/2008
Status: offline 		My problems stem from older males who are either just discovering, or just beginning to act on their kinky/bdsm feelings.  Many turn out to be married, so when the subject of meeting comes up, they withdraw.  Most of the others have that *6' tall wearing leather* fantasy.  Meeting soon is not always a possibility, due to my location and schedule, or theirs. 
An interesting thing has been happening with someone i have been in contact with for over 3 months.  We seemed to click on the vanilla end, and probably on the kinky side, but he is in Europe.   First my schedule got in the way, then his surgery, and now - recovery, and then it will be my schedule again, so it will likely be another 2 months at least before we meet.  Now i was wanting more conversation, but he resisted, and i just figured there really wasn't that much interest on his part. So i kept looking, and didn't contact him for a while.  Around Christmas he contacted me, and i asked whether he had found his Domina.  He said he was waiting for me.  I said i wanted more contact, and while he said he understood, it was still very limited.  We speak on skype weekly, as well as doing cmail, but it is mostly superficial, although with much humour, but i still wasn't holding my breath.  About a month ago i had an epiphany, after a particularly disastrous meeting with someone i did talk much more with.  It is better to keep some distance, and not get so involved that if there is no magic when we do meet, neither of us has more expectation or emotional involvement than would be wise.  And we don't talk when either of us is having a bad day, aside from well wishes.   So yes, if a quick meeting is not possible, communicate the basics, important things like ums and illnesses, and then keep it light.  Continue talking to and meeting others.  And keep expectations grounded in reality.  



manxcat
___________
Artists make lousy slaves. _Jodi Jensen


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RE: I need to cut on online conversations - 2/14/2009 6:46:28 PM   
pinkwind


Posts: 367
Joined: 1/9/2005
Status: offline 		LordDarkPleasure, this might seem harsh, but the sooner you get a grip of the fact that you are not all things to all fem subs, and learn to extricate yourself from online discussions with them at the earliest stage, the sooner your problem will right itself!




(in reply to manxcat)
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RE: I need to cut on online conversations - 2/14/2009 7:53:04 PM   
Jeptha


Posts: 780
Joined: 9/18/2008
From: Portland, Oregon
Status: offline 		Just tell them as much about yourself up front as you can so they can get as accurate picture as possible.

Share a couple of dark secrets.
Tell them you like kittens and cupcakes.
Be balanced in how you represent yourself.

If they still make up some romantic hero or anti-hero, that's just life.

(in reply to LordDarkPleasure)
Profile   Post #: 20
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