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hurt more, lose more, judge harder - 2/6/2009 2:35:02 PM   
lally3


Posts: 595
Joined: 3/4/2008
Status: offline 		on another board a subbie has discovered that her Master has been cheating on her.  she is understandably destroyed by his lies.

in this lifestyle we almost attempt to reinvent the wheel when it comes to trust, honesty, integrity - as if these things are MORE important here than they are in the vanilla world.  and yet for anyone to discover theyve been cheated on, whoever they are is devastating.

trust, honesty, integrity are vital in any relationship.  why do we place so much more emphasis on these things here.

it isnt just about bdsm.  people can play in a club and barely know each other.

i have a couple of ideas.  the obvious one being that you cannot fully dominate or submit without knowing who it is you are dominating or submitting to.

but that just scratches the surface i think.  i think that there is something else going on here thats much more to do with the people we are and why we are here.

the subbie going through this hurt right now got me thinking - why do we assume to hurt more, lose more and judge harder

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RE: hurt more, lose more, judge harder - 2/6/2009 2:41:17 PM   
Madame4a


Posts: 2045
Joined: 2/4/2008
From: Washington, DC area
Status: offline 		I'm not convinced that trust, honestly and integrety are needed more than in vanilla relationships.. but I do think that open communication.. with a lot of honesty is... my take is.. I adore BDSM relationships for the open and honest discussion of sex AND more... that doesn't seem to happen in vanilla relationships.. at least from my experience...

and.. as an aside.. hey miss.. nice to see you here!

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RE: hurt more, lose more, judge harder - 2/6/2009 2:49:18 PM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline 		For me those things have always been paramount to anyone I interact with no matter what you wanna call it...bdsm, vanilla, friendship, coworkers, etc...

Bdsm doesn't make it any better or worse or special.

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RE: hurt more, lose more, judge harder - 2/6/2009 2:56:37 PM   
Opalescence


Posts: 47
Joined: 9/2/2008
Status: offline 		We don't place more emphasis on it here, we just talk about it more.

Trust, honesty and integrity are all needed. There is no foundation for any kind of relationship without these things. Well, I guess there could be but it'd be a destructive one.

Power exchange goes on in every day life regardless if you claim to be into BDSM or not. There are a lot of dominate and submissive partners that never put a label on things and are just as happy as a clam.

I think we verbalize it more but, we don't put more value on it than anyone else.

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RE: hurt more, lose more, judge harder - 2/6/2009 3:02:19 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		I think that someone who is wired for wiitwd is comparing to hurts from a broken d/s relationship wherein she was more fulfilled to a vanilla relationship she wasn't wired for, and therefore was never as fulfilled.

Compare it to eating lunch and you leave the sandwich on the coffee table and the dog eats it. You're going to be annoyed in any case. But if it's a tuna sandwich on wonder bread which you don't much like and only ate because a can of tuna was all you could find you won't be nearly as annoyed as if you had just made yourself a steak sandwich from a freshly grilled piece of prime shell steak with homemade garlic butter on a great ciabatta roll.

The d/s relationship hurt more because you invested more into it, simply because it worked on so many levels.

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RE: hurt more, lose more, judge harder - 2/6/2009 3:04:54 PM   
IvyMorgan


Posts: 729
Joined: 7/5/2007
From: Midlands, UK
Status: offline 		Well, were I in a vanilla relationship (or playing casually in a club) I would not be expecting my partner to be doing things that could seriously injure me or be potentially life threatening (I does love the breath play), so, from my perspective, that is why I require a degree more trust and confidence in my partner.  Though, perhaps a "different kind of trust" is a more apt way of phrasing it.

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RE: hurt more, lose more, judge harder - 2/6/2009 3:59:00 PM   
Naberius


Posts: 98
Joined: 1/7/2009
From: Dalton, GA
Status: offline 		I was telling a submissive this morning that this lifestyle is a relationship, just like a vanilla life is a relationship, and as friendship is a relationship. These relationships are all the same regardless what is contained in them. However, I have seen much in my 2 decades of the lifestyle and people, less aware than others, feel bdsm is totally different. This is a common misconception, because the only thing that is different is that in a bdsm relationship, you are more prone to be closer in the bonding department with your partner. You become closer with the person who you are allowing to touch you. BUT, many people have thought that just because you're in a bdsm relationship, it differs greatly from that of vanilla.

In all relationships, all of them require a foundation of trust, honesty, love, understanding, and communication and yes, you are just as prone to get hurt emotionally from both the submissive side and the dominant side as people do break the things listed above. Whether it is unintential or intential, the heart gets hurt. As to  lying, lying will always break up any relationship regardless the type.

Just my $.02 worth.


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RE: hurt more, lose more, judge harder - 2/6/2009 4:00:47 PM   
Andalusite


Posts: 2492
Joined: 1/25/2009
Status: offline 		I'm the opposite. I need more trust in them to have sex with them or let them play with my pussy than to slap my face, or do breath play. My first experience in each of those areas was as a "stunt bottom" for a demo-type class. I felt they knew what they were doing, and the lines of what they could/couldn't do was fairly sharply defined, whereas sex requires much more intimacy and emotional connection. Also, people tend to *BELIEVE* that S/M can hurt/be too much/etc., whereas they frequently aren't as understanding about more vanilla activities.

< Message edited by Andalusite -- 2/6/2009 4:03:25 PM >

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RE: hurt more, lose more, judge harder - 2/6/2009 4:20:43 PM   
allthatjaz


Posts: 2878
Joined: 8/20/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lally3

trust, honesty, integrity are vital in any relationship.  why do we place so much more emphasis on these things here.



The emphasis is more apparent here in my opinion as it is vital to have trust, honesty and integrity if we are to go to the depths [of play] that we do.

No doubt these are important elements in any relationship but are rarely discussed. In our D/s relationship we have found the missing link, the environment that encourages these things and in doing so it has opened up our soul and perhaps made us vulnerable. It is for these reasons that trust, honesty and integrity are vital.

This openness, perhaps unique to a BDSM lifestyle, openly physical or/and hedonistic is far more likely to captivate ones mind creating a deeper and more meaningful relationship.


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RE: hurt more, lose more, judge harder - 2/6/2009 4:45:46 PM   
CatdeMedici


Posts: 2257
Joined: 10/20/2008
Status: offline
quote:

but that just scratches the surface i think.  i think that there is something else going on here thats much more to do with the people we are and why we are here.

the subbie going through this hurt right now got me thinking - why do we assume to hurt more, lose more and judge harder


The net is we think if we call the pig a pony, it will respond differently--it doesn't--people are people and when individuals enter this life or proclaim this life--they need to get that.


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RE: hurt more, lose more, judge harder - 2/6/2009 5:03:55 PM   
NuevaVida


Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
Status: offline 		There will be a lot of people who say we DON'T hurt, lose or judge more in D/s relationships than any other.  Personally speaking, I do.  But then I haven't had a lot of relationships in my life - one long vanilla marriage and one 4 year slavery to an owner.  I invested a lot more of who I am with my owner than with my husband.  The trust I had was greater because there was more at steak for me on an emotional level.

But as a whole, I really don't know if your premise is accurate. I do agree that someone should know who/what they are submitting too, in fact I recall saying that to my owner in our final months, as he had shut me out so much.  Then again, in a non-D/s relationship, someone should know who they're bonding to as well.


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RE: hurt more, lose more, judge harder - 2/6/2009 5:19:29 PM   
marie2


Posts: 1690
Joined: 11/4/2008
From: Jersey
Status: offline 		I've  never been one to believe that a bdsm element being present in a relationship means there is more trust or a tighter bond, or a deeper love.   We see plenty of disfunction in some bdsm relationships where those important elements (trust etc) are missing, or aren't as solid as they should be.  I don't think having a bdsm connection in particular means it's going to hurt more when it ends, or be deeper in it's existance than any other relationship. But I do see plenty of people who seem to hold bdsm relationships to a different standard than any other.  I just happen to disagree with it.

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RE: hurt more, lose more, judge harder - 2/6/2009 5:50:49 PM   
oceanwynds


Posts: 1044
Joined: 8/24/2006
Status: offline
quote:

why do we assume to hurt more, lose more and judge harder


I can't really answer your question lally. Interesting Sir mentioned this to me in the beginning of our relationship, and a few times since then. He told me people hurt more and lose more when a D/s relationship ends. Then he looked at me, and said but I would assume it is comparable to a loss of a spouse. That said, only thing I can think is it does hurt more and you do lose more. A pain that is so scary to ever have to go through again.

oceanwynds

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RE: hurt more, lose more, judge harder - 2/6/2009 8:02:08 PM   
sravaka


Posts: 314
Joined: 6/20/2008
Status: offline 		On one hand,  I agree with those who say vanilla-ly wired people in vanilla relationships hurt just as much when things go awry....   but at the same time, I tend to think that wiitwd is based in radical play with trust--  whether you are giving yourself completely and irrevocably into the hands of an owner, or just letting someone tie you up for the evening, it tends to require a different level of trust, and a different level of vulnerability.  To me, being cheated on or lied to or run off on or whatever by someone I entrusted with my most basic physical or emotional safety feels infinitely more stupid and dangerous-in-retrospect, therefore more painful and sobering.  There's an additional level of self-doubt:  "jeeze, i'm not even fit to keep myself safe."

Or something like that.


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RE: hurt more, lose more, judge harder - 2/6/2009 8:33:41 PM   
antipode


Posts: 1787
Joined: 4/19/2004
Status: offline
quote:

her Master has been cheating on her


I have to say I see a lot of people having an expectation of monogamy when they really should know better, it seems to be one of the most recurring events. I personally don't bother, my relationships are open, possessive people, I have learned, are bad news.

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RE: hurt more, lose more, judge harder - 2/6/2009 8:52:54 PM   
sravaka


Posts: 314
Joined: 6/20/2008
Status: offline 		Randomly curious:  is there reason to imagine she expected something that wasn't promised?  (I'm not familiar with the other thread.)

It seems to me all parties should be clear about this sort of thing from the get-go.   But when I see the word "cheating" I assume there were promises of monogamy.




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Miseries hold me fixed, and I would gladly cut these roots to become a floating plant. I would yield myself up utterly, if the inviting stream could be relied upon. --Ono no Komachi

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RE: hurt more, lose more, judge harder - 2/6/2009 9:48:41 PM   
lally3


Posts: 595
Joined: 3/4/2008
Status: offline 		thanks guys for your responses -

im struggling with this.  may have something to do with the fact that its 5.30am here and my brain has collapsed into a puddle of mush, so after staring at the screen for a good half hour and dropping off twice i think its time to scoop my brains up and go to bed.

ill have a go tomorrow. xx


< Message edited by lally3 -- 2/6/2009 9:50:55 PM >

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RE: hurt more, lose more, judge harder - 2/6/2009 11:47:18 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		The fact is, there's tons of smart people saying those basic things.

But they get ignored, because they want their fantasy.  Ultimately, life always plays out.

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RE: hurt more, lose more, judge harder - 2/7/2009 1:05:33 AM   
colouredin


Posts: 4279
Joined: 2/2/2007
Status: offline 		FR

I hurt more becuase I have trust issues, because I was never happy in 'vanilla' relationships I didnt really care where they went, it was a relationship for relationships sake I knew they wouldnt work so I didnt work on them therefore when I lost them it was just another day. Becuase I have found myself to be more fullfilled in D/s relationships and not wanting them to end I have to work harder to get the trust and so when that gets broken I take five steps back.

I do think that you always have to communicate in relationships and the fact that we big it up in these kinds of relationships because we dont do it enough

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RE: hurt more, lose more, judge harder - 2/7/2009 2:31:41 AM   
JustDarkness


Posts: 1461
Joined: 7/25/2008
Status: offline 		gettinmg hurt..or even hurt people..seems to be part of life. How hard you try to do your best to prevent it..some new kind of hurt pops up.

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